# What would have to happen for an upcoming British monarch to not be of House (Mountbatten-) Windsor? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 21, 2024, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-to-happen-for-an-upcoming-british-monarch-to-not-be-of-house-mountbatten-windsor/1004560 "2024-07-21T22:17:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-to-happen-for-an-upcoming-british-monarch-to-not-be-of-house-mountbatten-windsor/1004560/21 "2024-07-22T17:17:22Z")
> [@Sandwich](#): > > Given that the Mapelli Mozzi are nobles themselves, No they aren’t. There is no Italian nobility. If someone calls himself the Count of Mapelli-Mozzi or whatever, it’s all theatre. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-to-happen-for-an-upcoming-british-monarch-to-not-be-of-house-mountbatten-windsor/1004560/22 "2024-07-22T17:21:01Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Charlotte isn’t ever going to be queen unless she outlives her older brother and his offspring or royal incest comes back into fashion. In which case she should rule as a member of House Targaryen. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-to-happen-for-an-upcoming-british-monarch-to-not-be-of-house-mountbatten-windsor/1004560/23 "2024-07-22T17:37:28Z")
> [@bryanmaguire](#): > > She could also choose to reign under a completely different name. there is no requirement to rule under a name given at birth. Cite, please? To the best of my knowledge, that has never happened with any English king, or British king (post-union). The only example I am aware of is Robert III of Scotland, reigned 1390-1406, whose baptismal name was John. For political reasons, on his accession he changed his name to Robert, to link himself to the two previous kings named Robert, and to disassociate himself from John of Balliol, a puppet king previously installed by the English. It took an Act of the Scottish parliament to ratify that name change. > **[Robert III of Scotland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_III_of_Scotland)** > > 19 April, Robert II died at Dundonald Castle > 22 March, James's ship bound for France was intercepted by the English and the prince began his eighteen-year captivity > Robert III (c. 1337 – 4 April 1406), born John Stewart, was King of Scots from 1390 to his death in 1406. He was also High Steward of Scotland from 1371 to 1390 and held the titles of Earl of Atholl (1367–1390) and Earl of Carrick (1368–1390) before ascending the throne at about the age of 53 years. He was the eldest son of King ... Personally, it would strike me as very odd if the Supreme Governor of the Church of England disavowed their baptismal name, given as part of a sacrament of the Church, and went with some other name, unconnected with that sacrament. Bottom line: the kings and queens of the United Kingdom are not the Pope. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-to-happen-for-an-upcoming-british-monarch-to-not-be-of-house-mountbatten-windsor/1004560/24 "2024-07-22T19:16:29Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > To the best of my knowledge, that has never happened with any English king, or British king (post-union). The example that comes to mind is George VI, whose name given at birth was Albert. It may be that he had several given names, with George being among them; but certainly he was widely known as Albert until he acceded to the throne (and to close family, he remained Albert). ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-to-happen-for-an-upcoming-british-monarch-to-not-be-of-house-mountbatten-windsor/1004560/25 "2024-07-22T19:52:48Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > The example that comes to mind is George VI, whose name given at birth was Albert. It may be that he had several given names, with George being among them; but certainly he was widely known as Albert until he acceded to the throne (and to close family, he remained Albert). That is, in fact, the case. He had 4 given names. Albert was the first; George was the fourth. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-to-happen-for-an-upcoming-british-monarch-to-not-be-of-house-mountbatten-windsor/1004560/26 "2024-07-22T20:00:48Z")
OK; then apologies to @Northern_Piper, I didn’t realise until after my post that he meant the scenario of a monarch ruling under a name that was not included among the baptismal names at all. Popes do this all the time, of course, as do Japanese emperors (who are simply known as the emperor while alive, and under their era name when they’re dead, but never under their birth name). ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-to-happen-for-an-upcoming-british-monarch-to-not-be-of-house-mountbatten-windsor/1004560/27 "2024-07-22T21:09:51Z")
No probs. I was responding to @bryanmaguire 's suggestion that a British monarch could choose a regnal name different than their birth names. Similarly to the example of George VI, Edward VII was known colloquially to his family as « Bertie » and Edward VIII as « David », but both of those were one of their baptismal names. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-to-happen-for-an-upcoming-british-monarch-to-not-be-of-house-mountbatten-windsor/1004560/28 "2024-07-22T21:34:03Z")
As I understand it, in the modern UK, it is relatively easy to change your name (I think the term is “deed poll”). If the monarch wanted to dispense with Charles Philip Arthur George, but wanted to use the name of another saint, like Peter or Paul, would there be any legal impediment? Similarly, if he wanted to go back to Battenberg or Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg, would anyone care? ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-to-happen-for-an-upcoming-british-monarch-to-not-be-of-house-mountbatten-windsor/1004560/29 "2024-07-23T01:26:03Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > If the monarch wanted to dispense with Charles Philip Arthur George, but wanted to use the name of another saint, like Peter or Paul, would there be any legal impediment? I’m no legal expert, but I suspect that would need an act of Parliament. At least it did for the Scottish king that Northern\_Piper cited upthread. Anyway, since 1066, English/British/UKish kings have only had 9 different names and two of those were one-offs (John and Stephen). So a king would be going against lots of tradition to take a name other than Charles, Edward, George, Henry, James, Richard, or William. But that’s lots to select from compared to the selection a hypothetical French king has: Louis, Louie, or (to be really daring) Lewis. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-to-happen-for-an-upcoming-british-monarch-to-not-be-of-house-mountbatten-windsor/1004560/30 "2024-07-23T05:45:33Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > Or Parliament just adopts an act awarding the Crown to some person outside the family. Which Parliament could do, because under the British constitution it could do anything it wants to. Unless the monarch refuses Royal Assent, which they wouldn’t because their elected government would advise them not to, unless they did, in which case the elected government would be obligated to resign since they can’t govern in the name of a monarch who refuses their advice, which they wouldn’t if they believed the monarch to be unfit, in which case oh dear I’ve gone crosseyed. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-to-happen-for-an-upcoming-british-monarch-to-not-be-of-house-mountbatten-windsor/1004560/31 "2024-07-23T06:13:28Z")
No, you’ve just encountered the constitutional crisis that would ensue if a monarch was to refuse royal assent. As for the OP, I’m reminded of the movie _King Ralph_, where the Royals were all killed in a freak accident, and when the genealogists got to work, they found that the next in line for the crown was a Las Vegas lounge singer named Ralph Jones. Was he a Wyndham (the movie’s stand-in name for Windsor)? No, he was a Jones. It was a fun comedy movie, but I’d suggest that it may help answer the OP’s question: should there be no more Windsors, there would be somebody. Maybe not technically a Windsor, but certainly somebody, no matter how far down the line of succession they are. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-to-happen-for-an-upcoming-british-monarch-to-not-be-of-house-mountbatten-windsor/1004560/32 "2024-07-23T06:35:51Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Unless the monarch refuses Royal Assent, which they wouldn’t because their elected government would advise them not to, unless they did, in which case the elected government would be obligated to resign since they can’t govern in the name of a monarch who refuses their advice, which they wouldn’t if they believed the monarch to be unfit, in which case oh dear I’ve gone crosseyed. Parliament could just go ahead installing the new monarch, and then adopt an act afterwards which legalises all this ex post, including the appointment of a new monarch. And the new monarch would give royal assent to _that_. This is what happened in the Glorious Revolution. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-to-happen-for-an-upcoming-british-monarch-to-not-be-of-house-mountbatten-windsor/1004560/33 "2024-07-23T06:58:00Z")
As to the OP: Since the 1917 royal proclamation said that the family of the descendants of Victoria was named Windsor, I’d say the first in the line of succession who’s not a Windsor is - if we disregard the “women take their husband’s name” principle - the first who is not a descendant of Victoria. And those must be the Hanovers, descending from Victoria’s uncle Ernest Augustus who inherited the Hanoverian throne because, under the law there, women could not inherit. The House of Hanover is still extant (and very present in German tabloids); their current head is also an Ernest August, and I’d say he’d be the first non-Windsor to inherit if everyone before him in the line of succession were wiped out. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-to-happen-for-an-upcoming-british-monarch-to-not-be-of-house-mountbatten-windsor/1004560/34 "2024-07-23T07:38:25Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > The House of Hanover is still extant (and very present in German tabloids); their current head is also an Ernest August, and I’d say he’d be the first non-Windsor to inherit if everyone before him in the line of succession were wiped out. I presume you refer to Ernst August Albert Paul Otto Rupprecht Oskar Berthold Friedrich-Ferdinand Christian-Ludwig, whose bevy of baptismal names would make any British royal jealous. > **[Ernst August von Hannover (born 1954)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_August_von_Hannover_(born_1954))** > > Ernst August von Hanover (German: Ernst August Albert Paul Otto Rupprecht Oskar Berthold Friedrich-Ferdinand Christian-Ludwig Prinz von Hannover Herzog zu Braunschweig und Lüneburg Königlicher Prinz von Großbritannien und Irland, lit. 'Ernst August Albert Paul Otto Rupprecht Oskar Berthold Friedrich-Ferdinand Christian-Ludwig, Prince of Hanover, Duke of Braunschweig and Lüneburg, Royal Prince of Great Britain and Ireland'; born 26 February 1954) is the head of the House of Hanover, membe He lef... ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-to-happen-for-an-upcoming-british-monarch-to-not-be-of-house-mountbatten-windsor/1004560/35 "2024-07-23T08:05:05Z")
Yup, that’s the one. In Germany, he’s mostly known for three things: For his marriage to Caroline of Monaco; for that peeing incident; and for beating up a journalist. ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-to-happen-for-an-upcoming-british-monarch-to-not-be-of-house-mountbatten-windsor/1004560/36 "2024-07-23T08:19:47Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > It was a fun comedy movie, but I’d suggest that it may help answer the OP’s question: should there be no more Windsors, there would be somebody. Maybe not technically a Windsor, but certainly somebody, no matter how far down the line of succession they are. As the law currently stands the throne is restricted to the direct descendants of the Electress Sophia - a group of 5000-6000 people. Genealogists have identified the [last person in the line of succession](https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704889404576276502793788310). ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-to-happen-for-an-upcoming-british-monarch-to-not-be-of-house-mountbatten-windsor/1004560/37 "2024-07-23T09:36:48Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I presume you refer to Ernst August Albert Paul Otto Rupprecht Oskar Berthold Friedrich-Ferdinand Christian-Ludwig … of Ulm? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-to-happen-for-an-upcoming-british-monarch-to-not-be-of-house-mountbatten-windsor/1004560/38 "2024-07-23T09:57:31Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > … of Ulm? There are some who call him… Tim. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-to-happen-for-an-upcoming-british-monarch-to-not-be-of-house-mountbatten-windsor/1004560/39 "2024-07-23T13:11:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > … Ernst August Albert Paul Otto Rupprecht Oskar Berthold Friedrich-Ferdinand Christian-Ludwig … Pronounced “Throatwarbler Mangrove.” Can I just say this is the last time I will be hijacking this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-to-happen-for-an-upcoming-british-monarch-to-not-be-of-house-mountbatten-windsor/1004560/40 "2024-07-23T13:21:09Z")
Just realised that tracing the line of succession down the House of Hanover would be a hassle, because you’d be sure to find all sorts of unauthorised marriages or marriages to Roman Catholics there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-to-happen-for-an-upcoming-british-monarch-to-not-be-of-house-mountbatten-windsor/1004560.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-have-to-happen-for-an-upcoming-british-monarch-to-not-be-of-house-mountbatten-windsor/1004560.md?page=3)