# What would it take for George W. Bush to mend his reputation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 10, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-george-w-bush-to-mend-his-reputation/549835 "2010-08-10T16:09:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-george-w-bush-to-mend-his-reputation/549835/81 "2010-08-11T22:47:02Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > I understand that Bush has a pretty good reputation in Africa. That shouldn’t be easily dismissed. Other things Africans believe: 1. [Witchcraft.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witchcraft#Africa) 2. [AIDS is conspiracy by either condom manufacturers or Westerners to kill Africans.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aids_in_Africa#Causes) 3. (ibid) The correct way to use a condom is to poke a hole in the end so “royal juices” can combine. 4. [A Coke bottle is actually a tool with hundreds of uses.](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080801/) 5. Having sex with gorillas is a bad idea because they’re too temperamental. (Congo, Crichton.) I guess it seems logical that Africans think that GWB is the greatest US president since Ronald McDonald. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-george-w-bush-to-mend-his-reputation/549835/82 "2010-08-11T22:50:03Z")
Wanna make a list of the dumb things believed in America next? It’ll be long… ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-george-w-bush-to-mend-his-reputation/549835/83 "2010-08-11T22:53:20Z")
By the time Obama is finished, the USA will be economically destroyed; with raging inflation and 30% unemployment. GWB will be looking pretty good then:) ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-george-w-bush-to-mend-his-reputation/549835/84 "2010-08-11T22:54:34Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > By the time Obama is finished, the USA will be economically destroyed; with raging inflation and 30% unemployment. > GWB will be looking pretty good then:) Naw, I’ll just say that Bush poked too many holes in the boat for any captain to plug. Easy-peasy. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-george-w-bush-to-mend-his-reputation/549835/85 "2010-08-11T23:01:40Z")
Who’s that guy who said that Obama volunteered to captain the Titanic right after the previous captain ran it into the iceberg at full speed. Can I get an _amen_? ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-george-w-bush-to-mend-his-reputation/549835/86 "2010-08-11T23:07:00Z")
Continuing the Titanic metaphor: Obama is the guy rowing the lifeboat after the captain sank the Titanic. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-george-w-bush-to-mend-his-reputation/549835/87 "2010-08-11T23:13:12Z")
And the Republican Party is the captain of _Das Boot_, peering through the periscope and cackling evilly as he gets his bearings to launch a torpedo at the widows and orphans… ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-george-w-bush-to-mend-his-reputation/549835/88 "2010-08-11T23:54:21Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > > [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > > > OK. So your story is that _Bush chose militant Islam_ as his enemy, not the other way around. Got it. :rolleyes: > > > > Maybe it’s \*\*you \*\* who should listen a bit more, and not just in the echo chambers you’ve apparently been spending your time in? No offense. > > > > And as for the word choice of ‘adventures’, you’d probably be surprised to know that I’m against both OEF and OIF. I think both are incredibly high-difficulty dives and not worth the cost in both blood and bucks. Of course, now that we’re there, we need to play to win (and/or quickly GTFO). I suppose that puts me somewhere in the Colin Powell/Obama camp. > > > > The difference between us, is I understand why he thought they had WMD. So did pretty much all of your boys and girls. He (or his advisors) felt that, after 9/11, he had no choice but to take that threat off the table. > > [http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete\_timeline\_of\_the\_2003\_invasion\_of\_iraq"es\_from\_senior\_us\_officials=wmdQuotesGeneral](http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_timeline_of_the_2003_invasion_of_iraq"es_from_senior_us_officials=wmdQuotesGeneral) Fact is the Bush admin knew damn well Saddam did not have WMD. > This is from the 911 timeline ,something you should read. It is a compilation of news and political info from around the world, in which the Bush war lovers got lots of contrary data about Iraq’s weapons. The inspectors proved over and over that Rummy was a lying little twerp. **Gonzo** , IMHO this is a good post, and something I was hoping to see from someone not intellectually lazy and/or interested in trolling. Since it’s massively long, allow me to summarize it, since you didn’t really quote anything out of it and I took the time to read the whole thing: - The NIE was built by someone who has a history of making the results come out how his masters want - Most, but not all, of IC who contributed to the NIE felt that Saddam had chem/bio, and was going for nuke - the UN inspectors found ‘no smoking gun’ indicating WMD… but others point out that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, so to speak - There’s more stuff in there about how Iraq and Al Qaida were falsely connected in the press, etc. I don’t see anything in there that proves that Bush knew that Iraq did not in fact possess, or was trying to build, WMD. In fact, it shows something near the opposite: that there’s at least some chance that Saddam was. My point is, in light of the country’s attitude post-9/11, we weren’t taking any chances. Plus, and this is purely speculation on my part, this was W’s chance to get back at Saddam for planning to take a shot at his dad during the first Gulf War. I’m virtually certain that the Dems who voted for the authorization of force had eyes on this doc, or at least had access to it. In my mind, the WMD cassus belli was shared across much of the political spectrum; maybe for different reasons though. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-george-w-bush-to-mend-his-reputation/549835/89 "2010-08-12T00:38:39Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > By the time Obama is finished, the USA will be economically destroyed; with raging inflation and 30% unemployment. > GWB will be looking pretty good then:) Maybe we’ll get lucky and Obama will destroy the economy the same way Clinton did. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-george-w-bush-to-mend-his-reputation/549835/90 "2010-08-12T01:46:24Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] Maybe we’ll get lucky and Obama will destroy the economy the same way Clinton did. [/QUOTE] Gods, I hope so! From your lips to Og’s, um, hearing appendages… -XT ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-george-w-bush-to-mend-his-reputation/549835/91 "2010-08-12T13:08:35Z")
I find it amazing that as we are ending 2010, Obama is still running against Bush. While Queen Michelle blows millions on vacations (8 so far), we are being told that the reason why everything is failing is GWB…isn’t it about time to take responsibility? But of course, our affirmative action president wouldn’t know anything about that… ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-george-w-bush-to-mend-his-reputation/549835/92 "2010-08-12T13:29:12Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I find it amazing that as we are ending 2010, Obama is still running against Bush. > While Queen Michelle blows millions on vacations (8 so far), we are being told that the reason why everything is failing is GWB..isn’t it about time to take responsibility? > But of course, our affirmative action president wouldn’t know anything about that… Queen Michelle? Do you ever wonder why you are dismissed as a crank? [http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/11/politics/uwire/main3927378.shtml](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/11/politics/uwire/main3927378.shtml) You are aware that Bush set a record for most vacation day, aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-george-w-bush-to-mend-his-reputation/549835/93 "2010-08-12T13:41:30Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I find it amazing that as we are ending 2010, Obama is still running against Bush. > While Queen Michelle blows millions on vacations (8 so far), we are being told that the reason why everything is failing is GWB..isn’t it about time to take responsibility? > But of course, our affirmative action president wouldn’t know anything about that… Dude, a moment if I may… Look, I enjoy tweaking the squishy, chardonnay drinking, panty wearing, Priius driving whale warriors here as much as anybody (even though I probably agree with more lefty than righty positions), and it’s always fun to argue with logic against those who use emotion… but… Queen Michelle? Affirmative action prez? Michelle’s optics were awful on the Spain trip, even the beret-wearing, VW driving, clove-cigarette smoking press corps admitted to that 😃 . But she’s hardly acted like a queen - doing her gardening at the WH with the poor kids, etc. And while affirmative action exists in, and eats away at the effectiveness of, government (especially with the Supreme Court, the 8a program, higher ed), I don’t think you can say that Obama got in there because of that. This is a hopeless 'jack, but IMHO he got in on a combo of the financial meltdown 6 weeks before the election tarring McCain, combined with a new’n’fresh attitude by Obama (and an unwillingness to demonize his opponents, which was a very welcome change, especially from the shrill and bitter shrew HRC and her vast rightwing conspiracies). ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-george-w-bush-to-mend-his-reputation/549835/94 "2010-08-12T13:50:37Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > [@ralph124c](#): > > > > By the time Obama is finished, the USA will be economically destroyed; with raging inflation and 30% unemployment. > > GWB will be looking pretty good then:) > > Maybe we’ll get lucky and Obama will destroy the economy the same way Clinton did. “Our long national nightmare of peace and prosperity is finally over.” - Heard after Bush got in. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-george-w-bush-to-mend-his-reputation/549835/95 "2010-08-12T14:12:58Z")
> [@](#): > > we are being told that the reason why everything is failing is GWB..isn’t it about time to take responsibility? The Bush administration went eight years without ever taking responsibility for its mistakes, so we’ve fallen behind schedule. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-george-w-bush-to-mend-his-reputation/549835/96 "2010-08-12T14:38:08Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > > Maybe we’ll get lucky and Obama will destroy the economy the same way Clinton did. > > “Our long national nightmare of peace and prosperity is finally over.” - Heard after Bush got in. [Onion headline](http://www.theonion.com/articles/bush-our-long-national-nightmare-of-peace-and-pros,464/), January 2001…amazingly prophetic. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-george-w-bush-to-mend-his-reputation/549835/97 "2010-08-12T14:47:34Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > we are being told that the reason why everything is failing is GWB..isn’t it about time to take responsibility? > > The Bush administration went eight years without ever taking responsibility for its mistakes, so we’ve fallen behind schedule. Eight? It’s 2010. We’re now nearing the 10 year mark. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-george-w-bush-to-mend-his-reputation/549835/98 "2010-08-12T14:55:11Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > > [@gonzomax](#): > > > > [http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete\_timeline\_of\_the\_2003\_invasion\_of\_iraq"es\_from\_senior\_us\_officials=wmdQuotesGeneral](http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_timeline_of_the_2003_invasion_of_iraq"es_from_senior_us_officials=wmdQuotesGeneral) Fact is the Bush admin knew damn well Saddam did not have WMD. > > This is from the 911 timeline ,something you should read. It is a compilation of news and political info from around the world, in which the Bush war lovers got lots of contrary data about Iraq’s weapons. The inspectors proved over and over that Rummy was a lying little twerp. > > **Gonzo** , IMHO this is a good post, and something I was hoping to see from someone not intellectually lazy and/or interested in trolling. Since it’s massively long, allow me to summarize it, since you didn’t really quote anything out of it and I took the time to read the whole thing: > > - The NIE was built by someone who has a history of making the results come out how his masters want > - Most, but not all, of IC who contributed to the NIE felt that Saddam had chem/bio, and was going for nuke > - the UN inspectors found ‘no smoking gun’ indicating WMD… but others point out that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, so to speak > - There’s more stuff in there about how Iraq and Al Qaida were falsely connected in the press, etc. > > I don’t see anything in there that proves that Bush knew that Iraq did not in fact possess, or was trying to build, WMD. In fact, it shows something near the opposite: that there’s at least some chance that Saddam was. > > My point is, in light of the country’s attitude post-9/11, we weren’t taking any chances. Plus, and this is purely speculation on my part, this was W’s chance to get back at Saddam for planning to take a shot at his dad during the first Gulf War. > > I’m virtually certain that the Dems who voted for the authorization of force had eyes on this doc, or at least had access to it. In my mind, the WMD cassus belli was shared across much of the political spectrum; maybe for different reasons though. If you really take the time, you will find it is simply a compilation of letters sent to Bush and the admin, stories in the newspapers around the world , several countries warned Bush about the potential of an airplane attack. If you want the WMD discussion, read Scott Ritter who was one of the group that was in Iraq looking for the weapons. They were sent on missions by Cheney and Rummy who just knew the weapons were there. They did everything the admin asked and there were no weapons. That did not stop them. Nothing could. The admin ran a dog and pony show making up stories to cause the people and politicians to fall in line. The embarrassing Colin Powell demonstration in front of the UN was the low point. He included cartoons of trucks as proof. Politicians are weak. They know standing up against an admin that badly wants to goto war and is willing to lie about it can be costly to their careers. US Grant made it clear when he went into Mexico, when he knew he was on a liars mission. But his life as a military man would have ended. All politicians face huge pressures when they stand up against war. The fact that they don’t does not mean they think the war is proper. It just means they are gutless politicians. We have lots of them. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-george-w-bush-to-mend-his-reputation/549835/99 "2010-08-12T15:38:56Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > If you want the WMD discussion, read Scott Ritter who was one of the group that was in Iraq looking for the weapons. They were sent on missions by Cheney and Rummy who just knew the weapons were there. They did everything the admin asked and there were no weapons. That did not stop them. Nothing could. > The admin ran a dog and pony show making up stories to cause the people and politicians to fall in line. The embarrassing Colin Powell demonstration in front of the UN was the low point. He included cartoons of trucks as proof. Politicians are weak. They know standing up against an admin that badly wants to goto war and is willing to lie about it can be costly to their careers. US Grant made it clear when he went into Mexico, when he knew he was on a liars mission. But his life as a military man would have ended. All politicians face huge pressures when they stand up against war. The fact that they don’t does not mean they think the war is proper. It just means they are gutless politicians. We have lots of them. You’ll have to quote the part that _ **proves** _ that Bush knew there was no WMD in Iraq, then. That’s the contention of some in this thread, afterall, and I still don’t see it/can’t find it. Your link shows that there was a \*possibility \*that there was none - that’s hardly the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-george-w-bush-to-mend-his-reputation/549835/100 "2010-08-12T16:42:36Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > You’ll have to quote the part that _ **proves** _ that Bush knew there was no WMD in Iraq, then. That’s the contention of some in this thread, afterall, and I still don’t see it/can’t find it. Your link shows that there was a \*possibility \*that there was none - that’s hardly the same thing. Heh, I don’t think Bush was smart enough to know how to use a comma. What characterized his entire administration and the repubs in Congress at the time was that they weren’t doing what they _knew,_ they were doing what they _believed._ I bet, to this day, Bush believes what he did was right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-george-w-bush-to-mend-his-reputation/549835.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-george-w-bush-to-mend-his-reputation/549835.md?page=6)