# What would it take for not tipping to become socially acceptable in North America? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 15, 2021, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-not-tipping-to-become-socially-acceptable-in-north-america/937963 "2021-03-15T23:14:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-not-tipping-to-become-socially-acceptable-in-north-america/937963/61 "2021-03-16T21:58:44Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > “In this thread”? I’m not sure what you mean by that. In **real life** , when you go to a restaurant, do you tip? Sure - because I don’t want to get fucked over the next time I go there. I don’t want to be hated by my server because I didn’t ‘pay them’. > [@kenobi\_65](#): > > The expecatation of a tip is “extortion”? You clearly feel that it is, but the reality is that it’s the way that the compensation system for servers at restaurants has developed. In reality, a system of extortion has developed because it lets employers fuck over their employees and their customers, and because it _sometimes_, in _some_ circumstances gets their employees better pay. > [@kenobi\_65](#): > > You may not like it, you may feel pressured by it, but it’s the way it works. The prices on the menu are, effectively, artificially depressed, because the menu prices alone don’t cover paying the servers a living wage. > > Assuming you live in the U.S., which I believe that you do, it is the customer’s responsibility to pay them. It so happens that you pay them through two mechanisms: > > ``` > Paying your bill (since the restaurant does pay part of the server’s income) > Tip > > ``` Actually, as you yourself note, prices in the menu are stealthily _inflated_ by the expectation that everybody is going to be paying 20% more than what’s written. There is little doubt that in a no-tipping environment the prices would be higher, but the probably wouldn’t be 20% higher. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-not-tipping-to-become-socially-acceptable-in-north-america/937963/62 "2021-03-16T22:00:41Z")
Spaniard here. FWIW, my first experience eating in a restaurant in the US during a trip went as this — I got the bill and gave them my credit card to pay. A few minutes later one person from the restaurant came to me and told me that I had forgotten to write the part of the tip in the bill; he came to me because he deduced from my credit card that I was European and was not aware of the customary procedures in the US. I was indeed not aware of the procedures (I thought it was like at home; “service included”) and wrote a tip in the bill. But it left a bit of a sour aftertaste. From then on, whenever I have been at a restaurant in the US, I have made sure to leave a tip. I still find this “quasi-mandatory” tip weird, but I guess that it is a “when in Rome, do as the Romans do”. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-not-tipping-to-become-socially-acceptable-in-north-america/937963/63 "2021-03-16T22:11:10Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Actually, as you yourself note, prices in the menu are stealthily _inflated_ by the expectation that everybody is going to be paying 20% more than what’s written. Fundamentally, yes, but it’s no secret, unless you’re a visitor to the U.S. and not familiar with how the tip system here works. Yes, it’s mildly deceptive, since what is a $20 meal on the menu is a $24 meal, or so, with tip, but on the other hand, menu prices also don’t include tax (very few “list prices” for any retail establishment do), and that’s “stealth inflation” of the final price, too. Truly, I get it; there’s no good reason why restaurants _have_ to work this way, given that restaurants in much of the rest of the world operate just fine without it. But, it’s the system we’ve got here, and begrudging tips to servers does nothing but punish people who have zero control over it. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-not-tipping-to-become-socially-acceptable-in-north-america/937963/64 "2021-03-16T22:15:21Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Truly, I get it; there’s no good reason why restaurants _have_ to work this way, given that restaurants in much of the rest of the world operate just fine without it. But, it’s the system we’ve got here, and begrudging tips to servers does nothing but punish people who have zero control over it. Yep, it’s a sweet deal for the employers who don’t feel like paying a full wage. They can exploit the extortive mandatory tip system to force their clientele to pay their employees for them, and unless there are sufficient non-tip restaurants in the area the customers cannot exploit market forces to demonstrate that this is an undesired system. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-not-tipping-to-become-socially-acceptable-in-north-america/937963/65 "2021-03-16T22:18:39Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Some of us I can do this with little difficulty, but I suspect there are plenty of folks whose first thought when the bill arrives is “goddamit, where’d I put my calculator?”. On their phone, which is more likely than not already in their hand. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-not-tipping-to-become-socially-acceptable-in-north-america/937963/66 "2021-03-16T22:21:29Z")
I’ve been in a few lower-class sit-down restaurants that have a touchscreen device at your table you can pay at. These let you set the tip, and helpfully default the tip at 20%. You know, to be helpful. On the upside, since it is a computer system, you can easily adjust it for either percentage or final price and it’ll calculate it all out for you. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-not-tipping-to-become-socially-acceptable-in-north-america/937963/67 "2021-03-16T22:26:55Z")
> [@JoseB](#): > > Spaniard here. FWIW, my first experience eating in a restaurant in the US during a trip went as this — I got the bill and gave them my credit card to pay. A few minutes later one person from the restaurant came to me and told me that I had forgotten to write the part of the tip in the bill; he came to me because he deduced from my credit card that I was European and was not aware of the customary procedures in the US. They should not have done that. It is extremely poor form for a person to ask for a tip. It’s bad enough when they throw tip suggestions on the bill. Clearly you were in an uncomfortable situation, but had I witnessed such a thing I would have made some noise about it. It is a purely voluntary system. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-not-tipping-to-become-socially-acceptable-in-north-america/937963/68 "2021-03-16T22:30:52Z")
There are a lot of more expensive restaurants that burn a 20% gratuity into the final total printed on the bill, with no ready way to remove or reduce it. If you are giving them another 20% beyond that, well, here’s hoping you’re doing it knowingly. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-not-tipping-to-become-socially-acceptable-in-north-america/937963/69 "2021-03-16T22:39:49Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > There are a lot of more expensive restaurants that burn a 20% gratuity into the final total printed on the bill, with no ready way to remove or reduce it. Unless it’s for a large party, and cleared posted, I’d refuse to pay it. I don’t mind tipping the way it’s supposed to work but that is pure bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-not-tipping-to-become-socially-acceptable-in-north-america/937963/70 "2021-03-16T22:40:05Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Yep, it’s a sweet deal for the employers who don’t feel like paying a full wage. I was thinking about this and while I’m in favor of dropping the tipped minimum wage I think your general argument falls apart here. According to [US News](https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/waiter-and-waitress/salary) the average server earns $22,890/year with only 25% earning less than $18,950. Assuming they are working full time that means you have to be in the worst 25% of servers to earn less than $9/hour and on average they earn $11. While this is less than where a lot of people would like to put the minimum wage just getting rid of tipped wages would hurt the vast majority of servers. So what about you not tipping? the IRS estimates and average of 8% tips so with most people tipping 15% they would assume half don’t tip. With a difference in tipped and regular minimum wage of $5.12/hr at an 8% rate a server would only need to ser $64 in food per hour to make minimum wage. So look around if there is at least $64 worth of food out on the table your server is working you can be in the 50% of people who tip nothing and can rest assured you didn’t affect them earning minimum wage. Now a different discussion is what minimum wage should be but tipping is not a material part in that. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-not-tipping-to-become-socially-acceptable-in-north-america/937963/71 "2021-03-16T22:40:40Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > They should not have done that. It is extremely poor form for a person to ask for a tip. It’s bad enough when they throw tip suggestions on the bill. Clearly you were in an uncomfortable situation, but had I witnessed such a thing I would have made some noise about it. It is a purely voluntary system. You probably don’t travel much. In areas of the USA that see lots of foreigner tourists, restaurants often have to “educate” the customers on how we do things here. The alternative is they would not have any servers left since there’d be near-zero tip income. So yes, explaining that tips are not really optional is part and parcel of running a tourist restaurant in much of the USA. > [@begbert2](#): > > There are a lot of more expensive restaurants that burn a 20% gratuity into the final total printed on the bill, with no ready way to remove or reduce it. If you are giving them another 20% beyond that, well, here’s hoping you’re doing it knowingly. An increasingly common feature here in the USA is the so-called “auto-grat” where a fixed percentage, commonly 18% is tacked on the credit card slip as a built-in gratuity. With a pre-printed total just below, followed by another blank line for you to add in a tip of your own, and finally a blank grand total line. You can also cross out the auto-grat and autograt sub-total and write in your own smaller amount on your tip line and add that to just the food total to get your own grand total. Of course both managers and servers are hoping you won’t notice what’s going on, and will reflexively add your customary percentage to the food + auto-grat subtotal. In bad light after a few drinks it’s an easy mistake to make. Where the hell are my readers when I need them!?!1! ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-not-tipping-to-become-socially-acceptable-in-north-america/937963/72 "2021-03-16T22:42:58Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > In areas of the USA that see lots of foreigner tourists, restaurants often have to “educate” the customers on how we do things here. The alternative is they would not have any servers left since there’d be near-zero tip income. So yes, explaining that tips are not really optional is part and parcel of running a tourist restaurant in much of the USA. I have not traveled much in this century. Doesn’t matter, I’d still raise a stink about such rude behavior. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-not-tipping-to-become-socially-acceptable-in-north-america/937963/73 "2021-03-16T22:44:18Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > I was thinking about this and while I’m in favor of dropping the tipped minimum wage I think your general argument falls apart here. According to [US News](https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/waiter-and-waitress/salary) the average server earns $22,890/year with only 25% earning less than $18,950. Assuming they are working full time that means you have to be in the worst 25% of servers to earn less than $9/hour and on average they earn $11. While this is less than where a lot of people would like to put the minimum wage just getting rid of tipped wages would hurt the vast majority of servers. > > So what about you not tipping? the IRS estimates and average of 8% tips so with most people tipping 15% they would assume half don’t tip. With a difference in tipped and regular minimum wage of $5.12/hr at an 8% rate a server would only need to ser $64 in food per hour to make minimum wage. So look around if there is at least $64 worth of food out on the table your server is working you can be in the 50% of people who tip nothing and can rest assured you didn’t affect them earning minimum wage. > > Now a different discussion is what minimum wage should be but tipping is not a material part in that. It’s not a full wage because if the employees weren’t getting the tips they wouldn’t be able to keep the employees. This means that the employees aren’t getting paid a full wage - if we define “full wage” as “a good enough wage to keep them coming to work”, which seems like a better way to estimate it than pegging it at a minimum wage that doesn’t consider the conditions of the job it’s for. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-not-tipping-to-become-socially-acceptable-in-north-america/937963/74 "2021-03-16T23:00:27Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > if we define “full wage” as “a good enough wage to keep them coming to work”, which seems like a better way to estimate it than pegging it at a minimum wage that doesn’t consider the conditions of the job it’s for. I think I’ve been misunderstanding you. You don’t object to servers being paid minimal amounts you just want to pay a fee and get what you get. It’s more of a paying more to simplify your life kind of thing. > [@begbert2](#): > > Yep, it’s a sweet deal for the employers who don’t feel like paying a full wage. They can exploit the extortive mandatory tip system to force their clientele to pay their employees for them, What you’d prefer is if employers raised menu prices by 20% and then paid bonuses to their staff out of that money based on how they performed on a given night? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2021, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-not-tipping-to-become-socially-acceptable-in-north-america/937963/75 "2021-03-17T01:27:15Z")
When it relieves the boss of ensuring their obligation, it really is. And that’s especially when there is no workable enforcement mechanism to bring up the worker’s pay to the “non-tipped employee” minimum wage when the actual tips do not give the worker that minimum income, not to mention the taxes being based on a presumed tipped amount. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2021, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-not-tipping-to-become-socially-acceptable-in-north-america/937963/76 "2021-03-17T01:42:25Z")
If they’re making a decent pay then their obligation is ensured, whether it’s enforced by law or not. It’s not likely to happen much if it isn’t enforced by law. But aside from that there’s something telling about the call to pay servers minimum wage. Minimum wage is not decent pay, it’s just another excuse to underpay people. I said a decent wage, and that means you’ll have to pay the real cost if you want a meal cooked and served to you. ---
**Author:** ![themapleleaf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/themapleleaf/32/14349_2.png) [@themapleleaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/themapleleaf)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2021, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-not-tipping-to-become-socially-acceptable-in-north-america/937963/77 "2021-03-17T02:12:52Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > > [@TriPolar](#): > > > > You have created this burden in your mind. Right now you can tip 15% and not worry about it. Doesn’t matter if that matches the level of service, it’s a reasonable attempt to make up for the lack of pay for servers caused by this faulty system. And in a future where servers are getting paid a reasonable wage then you can just not tip at all. > > This is well said. Right now, tipping is needed. I wasn’t the one to deny that (and for the record, I do tip. Reluctantly but under the current conditons, I do respect the convention - I don’t want to be resented for not doing so or be seen as shortchanging anyone). I’m just trying to see how we might change the system so that tipping can become morally optional. > [@mordecaiB](#): > > > [@themapleleaf](#): > > > > Plus, I resent having to essentially act as a partial payroll clerk. > > Man, you are way over invested in this. You’ve expended more energy and thought in this thread alone than I have in 45 years of tipping. If eating out is this much stress for you, just carry a $5 with you, pay what’s on the bill and leave the $5 on the table for the server. This is likely to solve the vast majority of your solo eating out adventures. > > The thing is, very few people have a problem with tipping. It’s simply a part of life. Other than on this message board I don’t think I ever heard anyone get so excited about tipping. As I said above, the first people you have to convince to end tipping are the servers and any good server will fight you tooth and nail. OK, now you’re just being patronizing. The reason why I’ve put more effort than you into this issue is because you see no major problem with tipping and I dislike the practice. Something “simply being part of life” is not an argument for just accepting it and not trying to change it. In the 1950s, it was socially unacceptable for men to have long hair. Because this social convention was part of life back then, does it mean that someone who resented the prejudice back then should have been told to just stuff it and keep his hair short because the average man may have had no problem with going to the barber for regular haircuts? Were it not for all the men who challenged the deeply ingrained social prejudice against men with longer hair in the 1960s, we’d all still have to have short hair today in order be accepted by society. End of analogy. What you’re saying here amounts to “just get with the program”. I am not a sheeple. I speak out against things I find wrong with society. > [@mordecaiB](#): > > Or is it just the way we’ve always done it? Yes, this is it. I don’t tip because the server smiled and said hello. I tip because it’s part of the way society runs in the US. [/quote] It has for some time, but it hasn’t always. I have read that when tipping was introduced after the American Civil War, it was seen by some as old-world aristocratic nonsense. The concept of the tipped minimum wage developed as a result of the great depression and was created specifically in order to lower restaurateurs’ expenses. > [@mordecaiB](#): > > > [@themapleleaf](#): > > > > The social requirement is definitely what’s bothering me > > Why exactly does that bother you? I have already answered that question in my earlier posts, including with references to others’ posts. Repeating myself here would only be going in a circle. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2021, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-not-tipping-to-become-socially-acceptable-in-north-america/937963/78 "2021-03-17T05:24:47Z")
> [@themapleleaf](#): > > I’m just trying to see how we might change the system so that tipping can become morally optional. It is morally optional. Tipping is always optional. If you don’t want to tip, don’t. Nobody will put you on a blacklist or anything. Who, other than the server, would know that you don’t tip? Unless you are a regular the odds of a server remembering you from thousands of others is slim. > [@themapleleaf](#): > > OK, now you’re just being patronizing Well, I didn’t mean to sound patronizing, I thought my idea was a good one for you. Five bucks takes out all the math, the grading of your server, and all the other stuff you seem to worry about. > [@themapleleaf](#): > > End of analogy Okay, now I may be a little patronizing. That is one of the worst analogies I have ever read. What does hairstyle have to do with making a living? In case you didn’t know it, short hair wasn’t always in style either. That was just a couple of decades that you picked. People’s hair right now would would shock people in the fifties with how short it is, not to mention shaved heads. BTW, I was one of those people who made wearing long hair acceptable. I didn’t realize how serious of a right I was fighting for. I just liked long hair. Thanks to you, I know what a hero I really was! > [@themapleleaf](#): > > I am not a sheeple. I speak out against things I find wrong with society. This literally made me laugh! How old are you? Sheeple? Speaking out against wrongs? And of all the wrongs in the world, is tipping at the top of your list? Dude, you are trying to make yourself feel better for not tipping. This is not a crusade to save people. > [@themapleleaf](#): > > It has for some time, but it hasn’t always. I have read that when tipping was introduced after the American Civil War, So, we shouldn’t tip because some time in the past people didn’t tip? What are you, a sheeple following all those old traditions. Today, we tip. > [@themapleleaf](#): > > I have already answered that question in my earlier posts, including with references to others’ posts. Repeating myself here would only be going in a circle. Okay, I can’t really find anything except you are embarrassed if you don’t tip? Is that it? If that’s it just don’t tip. Problem solved, and the rest of us sheeple can just continue onward baaaing in unison. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2021, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-not-tipping-to-become-socially-acceptable-in-north-america/937963/79 "2021-03-17T05:28:05Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > I think I’ve been misunderstanding you. You don’t object to servers being paid minimal amounts you just want to pay a fee and get what you get. It’s more of a paying more to simplify your life kind of thing. I think that if there wasn’t any tipping, then people who applied for the job would _know_ what they’re going to earn, and that amount would, at a minimum, be normal minimum wage. In an ideal world it would be forced to be higher than that by market forces, but the lack of social support makes people desperate so that they are willing to work for peanuts. However under a no-tipping system they would at least be assured to get the minimum wage amount of peanuts. That said, I do also want employers to be honest about what the service will cost me. Taxes should be included and tips should be refused. But seeing a lower price, even if is an outright lie, is a psychological trick that fools people, so merchants will continue to lie. > [@Oredigger77](#): > > What you’d prefer is if employers raised menu prices by 20% and then paid bonuses to their staff out of that money based on how they performed on a given night? Of course not, that’s stupid. Where in the world do people get bonuses on a nightly basis? What I would actually prefer would be if employers posted honest prices and paid their employees properly, rather than lying, cheating, and stealing. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2021, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-not-tipping-to-become-socially-acceptable-in-north-america/937963/80 "2021-03-17T06:42:43Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > However under a no-tipping system they would at least be assured to get the minimum wage amount of peanuts They already are guaranteed minimum wage by federal law. If they made zero tips in a 8 hour shift the company has to pay them $7.50 x 8 hours. However, a good server is going to earn 3 times that in tips. You’re asking them to take a pay cut so you don’t have to tip. Yes, I’m sure someone somewhere screws their employees but it’s harder to do now with computer tracking of orders and such. The ones they do try to screw like that are those here illegally. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-not-tipping-to-become-socially-acceptable-in-north-america/937963.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-not-tipping-to-become-socially-acceptable-in-north-america/937963.md?page=5)