# What would it take for the US to regain a decent reputation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 27, 2003, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-the-us-to-regain-a-decent-reputation/209854 "2003-10-27T16:14:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-the-us-to-regain-a-decent-reputation/209854/61 "2003-10-28T20:47:05Z")
Thanks for that–yes, the NI accord was an example of cooperation among friends that is the American ideal, and I hope that the current bumps in the road can be smoothed over. I just wish that the rest of the world would remember such things when criticizing America–for example, it’s like many in the Muslim world forget that the last few military interventions America did were to save Muslims–Kosovo, Bosnia, etc. It’s like the “thanks!” last a second, the recriminations last decades. But that’s human nature, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-the-us-to-regain-a-decent-reputation/209854/62 "2003-10-28T22:21:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sqweels \* > \*\*bump: > Spoken like a representative of a true Christian Nation. :rolleyes: \*\* Who said anything about religion? Contrary to what some people may think, the US is not a “true Christian Nation”. Sure, the more fundamentalist Christians may like to believe that, but it’s patently not true. The majority of the people may ostensibly be Christian, but there’s very little institutional support of any particular religion or lack thereof. And back to my post… why should we care what the rest of the world thinks? This isn’t a popularity contest, you know. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-the-us-to-regain-a-decent-reputation/209854/63 "2003-10-28T23:04:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yojimbo \* > I would think to an intelligent man like you it would be quite obvious. One being **constructive** and the other based on resentment. Would that it were that simple…🙂 > [@](#): > > As to the rest of your post I don’t see your point. The point is that many of us think a “negative image” just comes with the territory. What great power in history, or present times, had accolades thrown at it from the rest of the world? It’s very easy to be a critic. It would be interesting to see how the French, for example, would be viewed if they had the economic and military might of the US. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-the-us-to-regain-a-decent-reputation/209854/64 "2003-10-28T23:42:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > The point is that many of us think a “negative image” just comes with the territory. What great power in history, or present times, had accolades thrown at it from the rest of the world? Again I agree but it is a silly position to think that all criticism should be dismissed for that reason. > [@](#): > > It would be interesting to see how the French, for example, would be viewed if they had the economic and military might of the US. :eek: Don’t even joke about that. I am no lover of French foreign policy. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-the-us-to-regain-a-decent-reputation/209854/65 "2003-10-28T23:52:00Z")
I agree that it would be silly to dismiss all criticism. There is some that I agree with, some that I don’t. I just don’t get all worked up about the **volume** of the criticism. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-the-us-to-regain-a-decent-reputation/209854/66 "2003-10-29T00:09:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mehitabel \* > \*\*Thanks, **Yojimbo** , for the perspective. But surely the large protests in America against the war before it started were covered in Europe? It seemed to me sometimes on the Beeb that if there was one guy with a sign anywhere in the country they’d sniff him out and slap him on their website. How about the protest on Sunday (which was admittedly relatively small and went all over the place–listened to the speakers on CSPAN and slavery reparations? Native American rights? Marxism? HUH?), was that covered? \*\* Yes it was covered. As were all the anti war protests all over the globe, including the USA. And these were covered in the Arab/Muslim world with the explicite message that this planned invasion of a Muslim nation was not about Chrsitianity versus Islam (Thank you Bush for the word CRUSADE here once again) and that there were indeed also US citizens who didn’t go along with their war sick government. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-the-us-to-regain-a-decent-reputation/209854/67 "2003-10-29T14:00:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > \*\* The point is that many of us think a “negative image” just comes with the territory. What great power in history, or present times, had accolades thrown at it from the rest of the world? It’s very easy to be a critic. It would be interesting to see how the French, for example, would be viewed if they had the economic and military might of the US. \*\* So they will hate the US anyway why care ? I would care how people view my country no matter how bad the odds… but when we get rabid posts like “fuck 'em and their opinion”… its bound to get worse rather than better. ``` Someone downgraded the issue of Bush being a major problem... he is a major problem. Maybe symbollically so... but after Bush things just got worse. He is widely seen as a gung-ho cowboy and very conservative... his tendency to use religion constantly in his speeches creates a certain discomfort too. Like our german friend said... what is said for "domestic consumption" comes across very badly sometimes. Even before 9-11 Bush was seen this way... his post 9-11 reaction only confirmed many of the prejudices against him.... trust me... Bush getting out HELPS alot in what people think of the USA... after all its a "dimwit" as your leader. How can't that not reflect badly ? ``` ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-the-us-to-regain-a-decent-reputation/209854/68 "2003-10-29T14:34:02Z")
Well, just to throw out a _hypothetical_ example, if you knew that most people in America thought that Lula was a wild-eyed socialist pandering moron, would you have let it influence your vote? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-the-us-to-regain-a-decent-reputation/209854/69 "2003-10-29T15:01:54Z")
Rashak: You and others seem to forget that the “Cowboy” image is an American icon. He’s the hero in so many of our movies. Look at the popularity of the TV show _24_. Wouldn’t you call Jack Bauer a “cowboy”? For many Americans that’s a compliment, not an insult. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-the-us-to-regain-a-decent-reputation/209854/70 "2003-10-29T15:17:40Z")
Rashak: like John said, what’s so bad about cowboys? Even Americans know about the gauchos of Brazil, your own great cowboy tradition. I would say to most Americans it means somebody independent yet working within the system unless it’s unjust; resourceful, working with whatever’s at hand; brave in the face of physical danger; strong work ethic and tirelessness; gallant to ladies but not fussy about manners; hard-working and hard-playing, etc. In fact, I started a [thread back in February](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=159368&highlight=cowboy) that didn’t really take off but asked the basic question about the image of cowboys in the rest of the world. But Brazilians are from the Americas too and we have a common cowboy heritage, so I’m 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-the-us-to-regain-a-decent-reputation/209854/71 "2003-10-29T15:47:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yojimbo \* > **I realise the approval ratings are now falling but they were very high when almost every other country I’ve heard reported about were the complete mirror image. eg the UK which was No.1 supporter politically and militarily was overwhelmingly against the action if you looked at the polls as was my country which the US labeled a member of the “Coalition of the Willing”[sup]tm[/sup] while the leader of the government was saying we were most definitely not a member(in actions we were BTW, a large %age of planes on their way to war were refueled in Ireland but it would have been very damaging to him politically if this were officially announced)** I don’t know anyone who seriously thinks Ireland is a part of the Coalition. Thanks for the permission to refuel in your general area, but it’s not exactly a contribution on the level of Australia or even Lithuania. Ireland’s position remains pretty clear. Naturally my opinion on that is as meaningful as an Irish opinion of the US…just thought I’d throw it out there. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-the-us-to-regain-a-decent-reputation/209854/72 "2003-10-29T15:49:46Z")
IMHO, in Europe, ‘cowboy’ conjures up the image of an uneducated, trigger-happy boorish ruffian with a ‘good guy - bad guy’ view of the world. One who will take the law into his own hands. I think we would sooner have Clint Eastwood in mind than John Wayne. ---
**Author:** ![Sergio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@Sergio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sergio)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-the-us-to-regain-a-decent-reputation/209854/73 "2003-10-29T16:03:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Saen \* > \*\* > > I think for us to get a decent rep , we would have to lose our superpower status and give these guys someone else more powerful than them to “hate”. > > … > > In other words, we could become Canada Stout ™, and depend on a foreign entity to protect our interests. \*\* This is an example of why Americans are seen with contempt (not hate) by the rest of the world. You are the strongest and you flaunt it. Canada has been one of the greatest friends of US, but you treat this country with ridicule. Given the achievements Americans attained in all fields, nobody could call them dumb, but you seem not to understand irony. Only Americans could take seriously the joke intended by **Rashak Mani** of killing Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Saen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Saen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saen)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-the-us-to-regain-a-decent-reputation/209854/74 "2003-10-29T16:10:55Z")
What the hell does that rant have to do with my post? Care to clarify? If not, please cease associating my quotes with your meanderings. M’kay? ---
**Author:** ![Space\_Vampire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Space\_Vampire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Space_Vampire)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-the-us-to-regain-a-decent-reputation/209854/75 "2003-10-29T16:16:57Z")
How many posts of his has you read in your time here? I don’t think he was making threats, but I don’t think he was exactly kidding either. And who says Americans are the only ones who don’t get irony? In my view most of the American jokes about Canadians are based mainly on the fact that there is very little reason to make fun of Canada. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-the-us-to-regain-a-decent-reputation/209854/76 "2003-10-29T16:56:54Z")
bump: > [@](#): > > And back to my post… why should we care what the rest of the world thinks? This isn’t a popularity contest, you know. Damn straight it’s a “popularity contest” is you insist on using such a belittling term. Democracy is a popularity contest. It’s about having good as opposed to bad relations with our neighbors. It’s about garnering support as opposed to opposition. Yes, one has to filter out the resentment factor, but the fact that the US image abroad has been deteriorating so rapidly in recent years suggests something else is going on. msmith537: > [@](#): > > Yes sqweels, the average Arab, Euro, Asian, etc on the street hates us because we pulled out of Kyoto and the ICC. If they hate us it’s because we’re selfish and arrogant and these examples are part of a pattern which proves it. > [@](#): > > The majority of the people may ostensibly be Christian, but there’s very little institutional support of any particular religion or lack thereof. It is my impression that the very people who insist up and down that we are a “Christian Nation” are those who advocate a most un-christian foreign policy. It is my belief that one need not be officially a Christian to embrace Christian ideals. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-the-us-to-regain-a-decent-reputation/209854/77 "2003-10-29T16:59:50Z")
Mehitabel: _Gauchos_ are the Argentinian “cowboys”, not Brazilian. But thanks for the support, anyway.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-the-us-to-regain-a-decent-reputation/209854/78 "2003-10-29T17:35:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rashak Mani \* > **So they will hate the US anyway why care ? I would care how people view my country no matter how bad the odds.** If it doesn’t matter AT ALL what we do, and people like you make it 100% clear that it doesn’t matter AT ALL, we will be hated, no matter what we do, no matter what, then only an idiot would waste time on trying not to be hated. The sun will rise, no matter what you do. A sign of stupidity is trying to keep the sun from rising. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-the-us-to-regain-a-decent-reputation/209854/79 "2003-10-29T17:45:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yojimbo \* > **I’m sure you have no love of the IRA but does that mean you have a level of hatred for Ireland?** I feel no need to gratuitously and intentionally bring up the IRA when I converse about Ireland. YOU found a need to gratuitously and needlessly bring up the KKK when speaking about the USA. That is what reveals how you really feal about the USA. Why did you feel the need to bring up the KKK OUT OF THE BLUE with NO ANTECEDENT, WHATSOEVER, unless you automatically associate the KKK with the USA… ---
**Author:** ![dal\_timgar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@dal\_timgar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dal_timgar)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-the-us-to-regain-a-decent-reputation/209854/80 "2003-10-29T17:57:38Z")
Elect a president with a functioning brain. What did the “axis of evil” comment accomplish? Has it just created problems which will reverberate for years? Dal Timgar [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-the-us-to-regain-a-decent-reputation/209854.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-the-us-to-regain-a-decent-reputation/209854.md?page=5)