# What would it take for you to take up violent/semi-violent action against a government? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 14, 2019, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-take-up-violent-semi-violent-action-against-a-government/843453 "2019-11-14T23:36:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-take-up-violent-semi-violent-action-against-a-government/843453/21 "2019-11-15T02:27:17Z")
I’m a 51yo woman with no military or martial training and the general physical shape of a beanbag. I might be willing to open my home to people fleeing from the violence, but that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-take-up-violent-semi-violent-action-against-a-government/843453/22 "2019-11-15T03:58:24Z")
As a 44 year old man who isn’t in the best of health I would try avoid any sort of civil unrest at all cost. It’s doubtful the entire country would erupt into violence at once and it should be easy to avoid the areas where it is happening. And god forbid if the unrest got worse enough I would take my own life before I took up arms and killed anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-take-up-violent-semi-violent-action-against-a-government/843453/23 "2019-11-15T04:59:52Z")
Nice try, CIA!.. like i’d say anything online about this… Looks like the City Council and a Vague, Yet Menacing Government Agency need to do a better job of monitoring our thoughts, why don’t you go play in the Dog Park, or go bother The Shape in Grove Park that No One Talks About or Acknowledges… ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-take-up-violent-semi-violent-action-against-a-government/843453/24 "2019-11-15T05:12:45Z")
I’d probably want more effective weapons than what are popularly available. The State is well-armed, you know. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-take-up-violent-semi-violent-action-against-a-government/843453/25 "2019-11-15T09:01:20Z")
Yeah, there are some issues that would cause me to take up arms against the government. Some things I would consider(might as well stick with gun control) are; How was the decision to do this arrived at? Government fiat? Actual Will Of The People as demonstrated by a direct vote? Something less brutal than government decree and less direct than popular vote? How is it being enforced? Door to door home inspections and confiscation of whatever level of brutality? Buy back program? Perhaps a cessation of sales of firearms and ammo to private citizens with prior ownership grandfathered in with full documentation of who has what? What does the government consider to be a firearm? In ID the state classifies bows as a firearm. Do archers have to submit to the same rules as gun owners? Supposing that civil unrest follows the government declaring by fiat of some sort that guns are forbidden and they’re gonna get them no matter what here are some other considerations. That percentage of gun owners who are vocal about fighting are probably not real super concentrated even if various regions may have more or fewer. Some percentage of the military or law enforcement will refuse to participate, and some will actively join the rebellion. Bith sides have some pretty big advantages and disadvantages. I dunno, if I was the Chief Executive tasked with this, I’d probably order my commanders to sit tight and keep a tight rein on their troops. I would NOT want the military involved ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-take-up-violent-semi-violent-action-against-a-government/843453/26 "2019-11-15T13:32:49Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > How do you feel about the national popular vote interstate compact? > > [National Popular Vote Interstate Compact - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact) Lazy and dishonest, but technically legal. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-take-up-violent-semi-violent-action-against-a-government/843453/27 "2019-11-15T13:34:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Some fun facts about the ATF: [They have a little over 5,000 employees](https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-staffing-and-budget). Most of those are office-worker-types spread out in [field offices all over the country](https://www.atf.gov/contact/local-atf-offices) (the one closest to me is located [here](https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7650655,-111.8835736,3a,75y,347.36h,117.09t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sG9wLBlRlRw_U7PK4X_zyvw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DG9wLBlRlRw_U7PK4X_zyvw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D199.78267%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192), on the 4th floor), not crack commando teams. They DO have five “[Special Response Teams](https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-staffing-and-budget)” made up of 138 full- or part-time members spread across medical, tactical, and negotiator components, located in Dallas, Detroit, Los Angeles, Jacksonville, and Washington, D.C. They average ~190 “activations” per year. > > Almost all of that information comes directly from the ATF website. Is this your People Get Ready post? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-take-up-violent-semi-violent-action-against-a-government/843453/28 "2019-11-15T13:40:57Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Is this your People Get Ready post? Not even remotely. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-take-up-violent-semi-violent-action-against-a-government/843453/29 "2019-11-15T14:10:46Z")
I dismiss outright a hypothetical civil uprising about firearms confiscation. There’d be the occasional duck who makes it ugly, but there would be no predictable, coordinated, or large scale violent pushback. It just wouldn’t unfold that way if The Government were repealing The Second. But that’s it’s own thread I think. NOW, if firearms confiscation took the form of other types of civil abuses, like door-to-door no-knock searches, mass arrests, significant and consistent property damage, and other personal abuses then all bets are off. But then it would no longer be about firearms, it would be about an abusive government that also is also forcibly disarming the people. At that point I think you’d see governors getting involved and using their national guard units as possible to defend their states. You’d also see secession movements for real, and alliances forming between states siding against the federal government. Personally, I find the idea of shooting at local law enforcement and US military personnel or hardware distasteful (and suicidally futile) to the point where I can say I wouldn’t do it as part of a fight _for_ something. If my neighbors are being hauled off without any doubt to death camps I might be inspired to play the vigilante and disrupt the incident with a bit of sniper fire–but things would already be pretty bad at that point. And of course if they harm my family as part of a larger ongoing campaign all bets are off, but even then I’d prefer to be part of a resistance movement than a lone operator. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-take-up-violent-semi-violent-action-against-a-government/843453/30 "2019-11-15T14:27:27Z")
As long as my wife and children are alive, my own willingness to actually take up arms against really anyone would be to protect against direct and immediate violence against me or the innocents around me, and even then would be focused exclusively on getting everyone out of the situation and de-escalating the violence. What I would do, supposing the state of the nation deteriorated to a point where I felt it was no longer safe or ethical to be a part of it, is _leave_. I am fortunate enough to work in a field and have a skillset that is global; jobs for me, in particular, are probably more plentiful in Europe than they are in the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-take-up-violent-semi-violent-action-against-a-government/843453/31 "2019-11-15T14:37:56Z")
I’m a Republican that owns multiple guns including one that would not survive an assault weapons ban. I honestly can’t think of any plausible scenario where I would take up arms against the US. I would use them in self defense or in defense of others. If a gun ban should happen (and be upheld as constitutional by the SCOTUS), I will turn them in willingly. There will be no need to pry them from my cold dead hands. We are a nation of laws and I will abide by those laws. I would also take active legal steps to have any gun ban reversed. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-take-up-violent-semi-violent-action-against-a-government/843453/32 "2019-11-15T15:27:56Z")
An increase in the tea tax. ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-take-up-violent-semi-violent-action-against-a-government/843453/33 "2019-11-15T15:48:17Z")
This might not count as what the OP had in mind, but if the Federal or State government started using drones with facial recognition software in an inappropriate manner, I would start shooting them out of the sky. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-take-up-violent-semi-violent-action-against-a-government/843453/34 "2019-11-15T15:55:06Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > With regard to this part, I’d like to point out that I know various gun owners who don’t have any intention of waiting until “ATF comes to their home in force, with dozens of SWAT officers”. What ARE their intentions? As soon as the 2nd Amendment is repealed, your “gun owners” are going to storm their state capital? March on DC with loaded weapons? Start shooting the police? What? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-take-up-violent-semi-violent-action-against-a-government/843453/35 "2019-11-15T16:06:36Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > What ARE their intentions? … Their intentions are somewhat varied and diverse, but in a thread that I already feel is at risk of flying too close to the sun, so to speak, I don’t intend to answer those other questions with any specificity. ETA: besides that, the thread topic is about what would motivate someone to take up arms against the US, not how they’d go about it. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-take-up-violent-semi-violent-action-against-a-government/843453/36 "2019-11-15T16:15:05Z")
Fair enough. So would you say “Not agreeing with Constitutional limits on private ownership of guns” would be their motivation then? ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-take-up-violent-semi-violent-action-against-a-government/843453/37 "2019-11-15T16:19:22Z")
You never know when you’ll run across some toddlers next to a federal building. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-take-up-violent-semi-violent-action-against-a-government/843453/38 "2019-11-15T16:21:38Z")
If I thought rising up violently against my government would accomplish an increase in my rights and freedom, or even if I thought a hypothetical victory by “my side” would accomplish that on behalf of “our cause”, I’d do it in a heartbeat. With rare exceptions, I don’t think it would. Violence concentrates authority in the hands of those with the best capacity to coerce, to destroy, to inflict death, fear, pain, etc. All the changes I want lie in the opposite direction of that, and in the opposite direction of concentrated authority. It may be an old moldy hippie sentiment, but it’s still a valid one: **Fighting for Peace is like Fucking for Virginity**. To which I would add fighting for voluntary noncoercive cooperative ways of conducting human enterprise. It’s not that we don’t have a coercive authoritarian government. It’s that we have a slick, modern, velvet-gloved coercive authoritarian government, one that uses communication (where access to the ears of others is not equally distributed) and advertising and the careful distribution of sufficient benefits and sufficient degrees of equality and sufficient guarantees of predictability and freedom within sufficient boundaries to keep most of us in a state of acceptance of the status quo as a system _within which_ we will work for improvements rather than seeking to overthrow it. - shrugs \* They’ve done well. I don’t consider things fair and equitable but I consider the social environment to be better than what it would become in the face of violent revolutionary struggle, so the only arms I’m inclnied to take up are of the pen variety, not the sword variety. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-take-up-violent-semi-violent-action-against-a-government/843453/39 "2019-11-15T16:39:30Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Fair enough. So would you say “Not agreeing with Constitutional limits on private ownership of guns” would be their motivation then? I think the OP phrased it better: > [@Velocity](#): > > … Many gun owners say that if the federal government tries to confiscate their guns, there’ll be a revolution… But you’re certainly free to try to characterize gun confiscation as “Constitutional limits on private ownership of guns” if you want to. I don’t consider that an accurate description. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-take-up-violent-semi-violent-action-against-a-government/843453/40 "2019-11-15T16:42:23Z")
I’m a pretty non-violent, pacifistic (and cowardly) person so I doubt that I would engage in violent rebellion for anything short of genocidal atrocities. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-take-up-violent-semi-violent-action-against-a-government/843453.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-take-up-violent-semi-violent-action-against-a-government/843453.md?page=3)