# What would it take for you to think a head of state should, or would,resign in disgrace? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 4, 2022, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-think-a-head-of-state-should-or-would-resign-in-disgrace/958920 "2022-02-04T19:15:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CHealy7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3ab097/32.png) [@CHealy7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CHealy7)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-think-a-head-of-state-should-or-would-resign-in-disgrace/958920/1 "2022-02-04T19:15:43Z")
It was suggested on [this](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/barack-obama-and-the-blagogate-scandal/958906/18) thread that I start this thread, so here it is. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-think-a-head-of-state-should-or-would-resign-in-disgrace/958920/2 "2022-02-04T19:18:15Z")
If they do 10% or more of what Trump did. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-think-a-head-of-state-should-or-would-resign-in-disgrace/958920/3 "2022-02-04T19:23:29Z")
Depends on what it was that they did. There are various corruption of office activities they may participate in, like if they were holding up foreign aid to an ally in exchange for manufactured dirt on a political opponent, or if they tried to rally people to storm federal facilities in order to overturn a lost election, you know things like that. But it would be necessary that they actually did it, not just that some posters on an internet forum claimed that he must have done something wrong, without actually saying what exactly it was. If for instance, someone unrelated to them did something corrupt without their knowledge, then I wouldn’t think that that should cause that head of state to have to resign. It would require an extreme partisan of irrational calibre to think that they should. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-think-a-head-of-state-should-or-would-resign-in-disgrace/958920/4 "2022-02-04T19:34:34Z")
That they are a Democrat and/or an African-American and/or not Donald Trump, of course. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-think-a-head-of-state-should-or-would-resign-in-disgrace/958920/5 "2022-02-04T20:55:48Z")
Blatant and multiple violations of the Hatch Act should also be grounds for shamed resignation. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-think-a-head-of-state-should-or-would-resign-in-disgrace/958920/6 "2022-02-04T21:16:54Z")
In reality the only way this happens is if forced ouster from office or criminal prosecution becomes inevitable if they try to stay, such as with Nixon or Cuomo. Nobody with the drive and ambition to spend their whole life reaching that position is going to go quietly regardless of whatever they did. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2022, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-think-a-head-of-state-should-or-would-resign-in-disgrace/958920/7 "2022-02-04T23:34:08Z")
I note that the OP is still a bit light on substance or, well, anything, but since the question handed to him has been asked: “Would”: Pretty much what **CookingWithGas** said. Someone in that position will only leave if staying will also result in them losing their position but under worse circumstances. “Should”: Committing crimes, abusing one’s office in a corrupt manner to enrich oneself (particularly at taxpayer expense), colluding with foreign powers against the country one is head of, tampering with elections, inciting violence or sedition…a lot of things come to mind. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-think-a-head-of-state-should-or-would-resign-in-disgrace/958920/8 "2022-02-05T00:51:54Z")
So this is a thread based on Obama’s role in Blagojevich’s trying to profit from “selling” Obama’s previous Senate seat. Are you saying this was reason enough to oust Obama? Even though all investigations "affirmed the public statements of the president-elect that he had no contact with the governor or his staff over the selection of his successor…” Really, OP? This sounds like another Pizzagate, but with less legitimacy. . > [@Horatius](#): > > If they do 10% or more of what Trump did. Oh, even 5% of treason should be enough. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-think-a-head-of-state-should-or-would-resign-in-disgrace/958920/9 "2022-02-05T01:11:56Z")
Three Australian Head of States have resigned. 1. Lord Hopetoun the first GG resigned in 1903 of a question of funding of his position 2. Sir John Kerr resigned in 1977 the aftermath of the 1975 Dismissal, ostensibly on the grounds he was going to UNESCO as ambassador, but he did not take up that position. 3. Archbishop Peter Hollingsworth stood down then resigned in 2003 following investigation of the church’s handling of sexual abuse cases and of allowing a known paedophile to continue as a priest while he was Archbishop of Brisbane in the 1990s. #3 only fits the OP. ---
**Author:** ![MindsEye\_Watering](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindseye_watering/32/3619_2.png) [@MindsEye\_Watering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindsEye_Watering)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-think-a-head-of-state-should-or-would-resign-in-disgrace/958920/10 "2022-02-05T01:17:55Z")
**What would it take for you to think a head of state should, or would, resign in disgrace?** Nothing that President Biden or President Obama has done. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-think-a-head-of-state-should-or-would-resign-in-disgrace/958920/11 "2022-02-05T01:36:29Z")
I was thinking this was about Boris Johnson. And I definitely think that Boris Johnson should resign. Lockdown sucked. The powerful who pretended like the rules didn’t apply them should be mocked publicly. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-think-a-head-of-state-should-or-would-resign-in-disgrace/958920/12 "2022-02-05T01:38:35Z")
Being a Republican is plenty disgraceful enough for me. They don’t even need to be a head of state. All Republican officials, elected and otherwise, should resign in disgrace. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-think-a-head-of-state-should-or-would-resign-in-disgrace/958920/13 "2022-02-05T02:46:03Z")
Well, here are two precedents from Germany: Christian Wulff, federal president and thus actual head of state, resigned over a media scandal concerning unclear and corruption-suspective financial transactions. The affair was sketchy and embarrassing, but compared to the massive, unbelievable corruption that Trump has done in the open as president and business man, it’s like Wulff had stole a piece of candy from his grandma he was supposed to get anyway. > **[Causa Wulff](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causa_Wulff)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > Causa Wulff (English: ~The Wulff Case) refers to several political scandals that ultimately led to the resignation of Christian Wulff as President of the Federal Republic of Germany. In the beginning, there were questions concerning the purchase of a house for which Wulff had accepted a loan from an entrepreneur family with whom he was friends. > In this context, Wulff tried to influence media coverage before the scandal became public. Additional i... And then there’s the case of federal chancellor (not the head of state, but the person who really holds the reins) Willy Brandt, no less than a Noble peace prize laureate, who stumbled over his personal referent who was revealed to be an East German spy. This really wasn’t a resignation in disgrace, but rather out of honor. > **[Guillaume affair](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillaume_affair)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > The Guillaume affair (German: Guillaume-Affäre) was an espionage scandal in Germany during the Cold War. The scandal revolved around the exposure of an East German spy within the West German government and had far-reaching political repercussions in Germany, the most prominent being the resignation of West German Chancellor Willy Brandt in 1974. > Around 1973, West German security organizations received information that one of Brandt's personal ass... ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-think-a-head-of-state-should-or-would-resign-in-disgrace/958920/14 "2022-02-05T03:29:03Z")
There’s a lot of countries in the world - resignations of heads of state or government seem to happen moderately frequently (maybe once every couple of years or so). But the majority are simply for strategic reasons or because the populace and/or the leader’s political party think they’re doing a shit job. The most recent one that I think could fairly be described as “resign in disgrace” is probably Kosovo Prime Minister Ramush Haradjani, who’s been tried (and acquitted, tbf) for war crimes _twice_ and is under investigation once again. That seems like a pretty good reason to me. > **[Ramush Haradinaj](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramush_Haradinaj)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > Ramush Haradinaj (Albanian pronunciation: \[ɾamuʃ haɾadinaj\]; born 3 July 1968) is a Kosovo Albanian politician, leader of the AAK party, and the third prime minister of Kosovo. He is a former officer and leader of the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), and previously served as Prime Minister of Kosovo between 2004 and 2005. > Following the dissolution of Yugoslavia, Haradinaj was the KLA's commander for western Kosovo. Following the conflict, Haradina... ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-think-a-head-of-state-should-or-would-resign-in-disgrace/958920/15 "2022-02-05T09:13:23Z")
Many officials of various sorts resign “to spend more time with their family”. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-think-a-head-of-state-should-or-would-resign-in-disgrace/958920/16 "2022-02-05T11:48:42Z")
There may be a difference in what constitutes “disgrace” for a head of state vs a head of government. In the latter case, there’s the question of whether public reactions will affect the governing party’s chances in the next election. For a head of state it’s more a question of “conduct unbecoming” as an embodiment of the whole nation, without the party political calculation. But in both cases, would a difference over a constitutional issue (as in the case of Kerr/Whitlam) constitute a disgrace, or is it limited to personal integrity? I’d go for the latter. Another example: [Juan Carlos of Spain](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53642283) ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-think-a-head-of-state-should-or-would-resign-in-disgrace/958920/17 "2022-02-05T12:48:00Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Oh, even 5% of treason should be enough. Yeah, but then I can’t use the term “decitrump” I just made up. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-think-a-head-of-state-should-or-would-resign-in-disgrace/958920/18 "2022-02-05T13:13:46Z")
Indeed, the clause “in disgrace” is very debatable. I suspect that in many historical resignations, the subject did not consider their resignation to be “in disgrace”. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-think-a-head-of-state-should-or-would-resign-in-disgrace/958920/19 "2022-02-05T13:25:29Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > I suspect that in many historical resignations, the subject did not consider their resignation to be “in disgrace”. Yeah, most of them would spin it as them being all noble and shit. “My continued presence in this office is acting as a distraction from the important work of our party leading the nation into a new day. So I will step aside, so as to not impede the progress of our great nation!” ---
**Author:** ![Anita\_Dayoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Anita\_Dayoff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anita_Dayoff)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-think-a-head-of-state-should-or-would-resign-in-disgrace/958920/20 "2022-02-05T15:13:03Z")
If they are Republican or Democrat. Both are disgraceful for what they’ve done and continue to do to the U.S. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-think-a-head-of-state-should-or-would-resign-in-disgrace/958920.md?page=2)