# What would it take to get major powers to commit genocide? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 20, 2016, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-get-major-powers-to-commit-genocide/775202 "2016-12-20T01:19:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-get-major-powers-to-commit-genocide/775202/21 "2016-12-21T12:55:44Z")
The tinder is dry and will explode with the slightest spark. One more major terror attack in the US that can be traced back to Muslims, and the purge will begin. Look for Muslim concentration camps in the US and guys like Michael Flynn will happily make plans for the final solution. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-get-major-powers-to-commit-genocide/775202/22 "2016-12-21T14:24:45Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > What would it take to get the US to attempt genocide? > Whatever the Native Americans did to the US, that’s what it would take, it seems. 😕 Native Americans just in the last month stopped (or at least suspended) the building of an oil pipeline near NA lands. That’s exactly the kind of thing they did 150 years (although not quite so peacefully all the time) that caused genocidal policies to be enacted. Past performance is not indicative of future results. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-get-major-powers-to-commit-genocide/775202/23 "2016-12-21T14:43:33Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Do you think there is/are any possible action(s) that radical Muslims could do to get the American people / government / military to say “f\*\*\* it, just kill them all” and actually set out to systematically eliminate an entire religion from off the face of the Earth (or at least trying their hardest)? > > For example, if they managed to steal five nuclear bombs and simultaneously detonate them in DC, NYC, LA, Houston, and Chicago? Do you think they’d get their apocalypse then? Or do you think America’s “genocide threshold” is higher than that? Lower? > > What about the Russians? the Chinese? What would it take to get major powers to commit genocide? Given their track record (the United States toward the American Indian populations, the Russian and Chinese toward minorities within their own countries), I would say: the opportunity to get away with it and maybe a few weeks to build the necessary infrastructure. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-get-major-powers-to-commit-genocide/775202/24 "2016-12-21T20:12:35Z")
> [@TPM](#): > > While speaking to reporters outside his Mar-a-Lago estate, Trump was asked whether attacks in Europe and the assassination of the Russian ambassador to Turkey this week had caused him to re-evaluate his previous proposals to create a Muslim registry or ban Muslim immigration to the U.S. > > “You know my plans," he replied, without getting into specifics. “All along, I’ve been proven to be right. One hundred percent correct. What’s happening is disgraceful.” > > \ > > Asked about that statement Wednesday, and how it might affect relationships with Muslims, Trump said that the Berlin attack was “an attack on humanity. That’s what it is. An attack on humanity and it’s got to be stopped.” > **[Trump Suggests Attacks In Europe Validate His Proposed Muslim Ban](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-european-attacks-muslim-registry-immigration-ban)** > > Donald Trump on Wednesday implied that recent attacks in Europe justified his campaign trail call to ban Muslim immigration to the United States. While speaking to reporters outside his Mar-a-Lago… So, Trump seems to be assigning collective guilt for these attacks on “humanity”, attacks that didn’t even happen in the US. He takes advantage of any attack (even those that have not yet been linked to terrorism) to advance his race- and religion-based objectives. I’m not saying we’re on the express train to Genocideville, but when an authoritarian leader says that those other people are a threat to humanity, and the leader doesn’t draw a clear distinction between actual perpetrators and innocent people who happen to belong to the same religion (and remember this is a guy who advocated attacking the families of terrorists), that’s not a good sign. Those are dangerous ideas that should be opposed by other political leaders, by the media, by religious groups, by _everyone_. And that’s not happening. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-get-major-powers-to-commit-genocide/775202/25 "2016-12-21T21:34:28Z")
I’d say that the main thing that we’d need in order to see genocide would be some kind of clear and present threat serious enough to make a large majority of the people think that murdering all the followers of a religion or of a region of the world was a good idea. In other words, extremely unlikely. However, I think it’s not at all unlikely that we could see a series of encroachments on a group’s civil rights, possibly including expulsion from the country and/or imprisonment/sequestration. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-get-major-powers-to-commit-genocide/775202/26 "2016-12-21T21:36:35Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > What would it take to get the US to attempt genocide? > Whatever the Native Americans did to the US, that’s what it would take, it seems. Have something we want? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-get-major-powers-to-commit-genocide/775202/27 "2016-12-21T21:41:21Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > The tinder is dry and will explode with the slightest spark. One more major terror attack in the US that can be traced back to Muslims, and the purge will begin. Look for Muslim concentration camps in the US and guys like Michael Flynn will happily make plans for the final solution. I think it’s bad, but not quite that bad. There would be intermediate stages (as there were before WWII.) Registration, restrictive laws against head-scarves, travel restrictions, other ugly stuff. Those would be our warning signs, and maybe they would be enough for us to stand in the way of further escalation. “First they came for the Muslims, and I said… ‘Not this time, you son of a bitch!’” ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-get-major-powers-to-commit-genocide/775202/28 "2016-12-21T22:38:23Z")
How many nuclear explosions on American soil would it take for you be OK with straight up murdering Kareem Abdul-Jabbar? ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-get-major-powers-to-commit-genocide/775202/29 "2016-12-21T22:52:58Z")
I don’t think there would ever be a de Jure genocide such as a declared government policy of genocide but I could see a de facto genocide take place in the Middle East or some such after the five nukes scenario you proffered. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-get-major-powers-to-commit-genocide/775202/30 "2016-12-22T15:33:08Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I think it’s bad, but not quite that bad. There would be intermediate stages (as there were before WWII.) Registration, restrictive laws against head-scarves, travel restrictions, other ugly stuff. Those would be our warning signs, and maybe they would be enough for us to stand in the way of further escalation. > > “First they came for the Muslims, and I said… > ‘Not this time, you son of a bitch!’” Well first, anything that’s going to be done along those lines will happen in Europe first. They’ve got a bigger problem by far. The US is more likely to just restrict Muslim immigration, which some would like to call a human rights issue but just isn’t. We get to decide who comes here, no one has a right to come here. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-get-major-powers-to-commit-genocide/775202/31 "2016-12-22T18:51:48Z")
I think one thing that could cause genocide among major powers would be a combination of 1) very high population and 2) suddenly deprivation of resources. In that situation eugenics might kick in and major powers might say, _“We have too little food for too many mouths. Some folks just must die. Let’s start with the old, the mentally ill, the low-IQ, the handicapped, etc…”_ ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-get-major-powers-to-commit-genocide/775202/32 "2016-12-22T18:57:15Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I think one thing that could cause genocide among major powers would be a combination of 1) very high population and 2) suddenly deprivation of resources. In that situation eugenics might kick in and major powers might say, _“We have too little food for too many mouths. Some folks just must die. Let’s start with the old, the mentally ill, the low-IQ, the handicapped, etc…”_ Nowadays all you would need to do is sell the perception that these things are going on. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-get-major-powers-to-commit-genocide/775202/33 "2016-12-22T19:31:44Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Have something we want? Actually, not have something that we already did - namely resistance to diseases like smallpox and measles. 75-90% of the deaths of native Americans were from that, not genocide. Regards, Shodan PS - the urban legend about the smallpox-infected blankets didn’t really happen. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-get-major-powers-to-commit-genocide/775202/34 "2016-12-23T07:51:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > 😕 Native Americans just in the last month stopped (or at least suspended) the building of an oil pipeline near NA lands. They didn’t do it alone. And one pipeline…suspended. Whelp, that about balances out the Trail of Tears, then… > [@](#): > > That’s exactly the kind of thing they did 150 years (although not quite so peacefully all the time) that caused genocidal policies to be enacted. Ho-ly shit, talk about victim-blaming… > [@](#): > > Past performance is not indicative of future results. Oh, I was unaware there’d been a completely revolutionary change in US relations with Native Americans, and that their lives are now[just peachy-keen](http://www.cracked.com/article_24500_5-ways-native-americans-get-abused-daily-in-modern-america.html). \*Present \*performance is not giving hope for future anything. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-get-major-powers-to-commit-genocide/775202/35 "2016-12-23T09:23:10Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Actually, not have something that we already did - namely resistance to diseases like smallpox and measles. 75-90% of the deaths of native Americans were from that, not genocide. > > Regards, > Shodan > > PS - the urban legend about the smallpox-infected blankets didn’t really happen. Well, tell that to [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Fort_Pitt) and the [sources](http://www.politicsandthelifesciences.org/Biosecurity_course_folder/readings/fenn.html)it cites… ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-get-major-powers-to-commit-genocide/775202/36 "2016-12-23T20:11:01Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I think it’s bad, but not quite that bad. There would be intermediate stages (as there were before WWII.) Registration, restrictive laws against head-scarves, travel restrictions, other ugly stuff. Those would be our warning signs, and maybe they would be enough for us to stand in the way of further escalation. > > “First they came for the Muslims, and I said… > ‘Not this time, you son of a bitch!’” “First we came for the Muslims, and I said nothing because I was the one coming for them.” “First they came for the Muslims, and I said nothing because I wasn’t a Muslim.” If we get to that point, I think it will be more like the former scenario than the latter for some of Trump’s supporters. Five nukes would most likely be enough for the country of origin of whoever was responsible to be on the receiving end of a genocide. One nuke would likely be enough for significant civil rights violations but not a full on genocide. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-get-major-powers-to-commit-genocide/775202/37 "2016-12-24T15:03:35Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Actually, not have something that we already did - namely resistance to diseases like smallpox and measles. 75-90% of the deaths of native Americans were from that, not genocide. > > Regards, > Shodan > > PS - the urban legend about the smallpox-infected blankets didn’t really happen. I think the event at Kittanning, PA is well documented. British officers during the French and Indian War, and the Natives were not warlike. At other times, Brits and Americans took revenge on whatever Natives were available, even the ones who they were completely friendly with before another tribe killed some whites. Indians did resist, and some resisted by killing white settlers who ventured out too far. Or evangelists who were dumb enough to preach against the local Shaman’s beliefs. White response was always disproportional. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-get-major-powers-to-commit-genocide/775202/38 "2016-12-24T23:56:15Z")
The same thing that nearly killed the Japanese: an intolerable enemy which will not back down. An enemy which can rightfully be given an ultimatum of “surrender or die” that would choose “die”. Islam as a whole does not meet that standard, but some branches of Islam probably do. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2016, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-get-major-powers-to-commit-genocide/775202/39 "2016-12-25T00:45:30Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > They didn’t do it alone. And one pipeline…suspended. Whelp, that about balances out the Trail of Tears, then…Ho-ly shit, talk about victim-blaming… Ahem. Here’s what you posted (that I was responding to), emphasis added > [@Mr. D](#): > > Whatever the Native Americans did to the US, that’s what it would take… This thread is asking, “what would it take to get the major powers to commit genocide”. I’m not interested in silly semantic games. At any rate, it’s your thesis. Given recent events it seems to have no predictive value. > [@](#): > > Oh, I was unaware there’d been a completely revolutionary change in US relations with Native Americans, and that their lives are now[just peachy-keen](http://www.cracked.com/article_24500_5-ways-native-americans-get-abused-daily-in-modern-america.html). \*Present \*performance is not giving hope for future anything. Uhm, yes there is a revolutionary change in US relations with Indians compared to how things were 150 years ago\*, which is the foundation your thesis is based on. \*Which was when the US did take genocidal action against Native Americans ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2016, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-get-major-powers-to-commit-genocide/775202/40 "2016-12-25T01:48:12Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > I think probably every country is closer to embracing genocide than they think. Millions of Germans knew about the Holocaust and cheered it on. Thousands of Rwandans took up weapons and carried out a genocide by their own hands. What would it take for the US to go off the rails? Probably not as much as we’d like to think. Primo Levi, I believe, had a quote which encapsulated this feeling succinctly: “It happened, therefore it can happen again.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-get-major-powers-to-commit-genocide/775202.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-get-major-powers-to-commit-genocide/775202.md?page=3)