# What would it take to make you leave the U.S.A. \*and\* renounce your citizenship? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 2, 2016, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-make-you-leave-the-u-s-a-and-renounce-your-citizenship/747748 "2016-03-02T18:53:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-make-you-leave-the-u-s-a-and-renounce-your-citizenship/747748/21 "2016-03-02T23:33:17Z")
I would never renounce my American citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![Kiros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/439d5e/32.png) [@Kiros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiros)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-make-you-leave-the-u-s-a-and-renounce-your-citizenship/747748/22 "2016-03-02T23:49:05Z")
I’m married to a Canadian citizen, we both have pretty portable careers, and we live somewhere that doesn’t have appreciably better weather or cheaper housing than Toronto or Vancouver. So we’ve definitely talked about leaving once or twice. Renouncing our citizenship as well, though? It would have to be some odd combo scenario where Trump gets elected dictator for life, but also raises taxes significantly on everyone, or removes credit for foreign taxes paid, or something similarly unlikely. Basically there would have to be the incentive to leave AND another significant incentive for the renunciation. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-make-you-leave-the-u-s-a-and-renounce-your-citizenship/747748/23 "2016-03-03T00:28:24Z")
In the case of my sister who left the US after 12 years, after getting a PhD, getting married to an American citizen, and getting a green card: 1. Idiots, even grade school dropouts, will take the first opportunity to insult her ethnicity once they find out (Filipina.) When she answers back, she get branded a racist, a subversive, and in general an undesirable. Her lawyer-husband spends much of his time calling and e-mailing people to stop harassing his wife if they don’t wan’t to be sued in court. 2. She taught at undergraduate and masteral for a while and she said the US education system stinks. Too student-oriented, whatever that means. 3. US corporate life had always sucked (my opinion.) So she’s back here in the Philippines, teaching and doing research. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-make-you-leave-the-u-s-a-and-renounce-your-citizenship/747748/24 "2016-03-03T00:40:49Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > nevermind c) which is “Canada isn’t just going to say 'oh yah, eh, come right on in buddy!” How do these people think they’ll make a living? It’s _damn hard_ to get a job in Canada (or most countries) unless you have an employer sponsoring you and they take care of the hard stuff. Such as “Why should this person get this job instead of a Canadian citizen?” > > moving to another country is a lot harder than just figuring out how to pay for the plane ticket. > > eta: Ninja’d by **Lemur866** Exactly. The US is fairly unique in that you can up and come here, get a card and dig ditches. You cannot do that in most countries. For all the bleating about how poorly the US treats immigrants…try and become a legal dishwasher in another country. I mean if its easy, then i fully admit to being wrong but i don’t think its that easy. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-make-you-leave-the-u-s-a-and-renounce-your-citizenship/747748/25 "2016-03-03T00:44:38Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The practical result of this is Gilliam now has limitations on how long he can reside in the United States. He cannot be in the United States for more than twenty-nine days a year. It is amazing how much of the world’s population manage to live with not being able to visit the US for more than 29 days a year…Or visit it at all for that matter! 🙂 > [@Iamnotivan](#): > > 1. The U.S. in its relentless Bully-of-the-world position has lately forced other nations - incl Canada, and ex-pats to tow the line on truly onerous assets declarations by all individuals and financial institutions that make reporting complex and expensive - to the extent that for every (W-4? like) statement I have in my tax prep., the charge here is $150-250 extra. No French bank now will even give a bank account to a U.S. citizen no matter how long they have lived in France or are dual citizens. Yep. I had to set up a bank account here in Hong Kong for work I was doing in Africa for a Canadian company. I used my HK ID card and my Canadian passport for identification. I spent more time explaining and signing documentation stating that I wasn’t a US citizen than on the actual account setup. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-make-you-leave-the-u-s-a-and-renounce-your-citizenship/747748/26 "2016-03-03T01:34:29Z")
Wife alive: not enough money in the world. There is no way in Hell she would ever move from this house let alone this country. Wife gone: not so much. I have relatives in various Old Countries my family ended up in and I’ve been made some interesting offers for the rest of my life. Two bad Presidents in a row (or the next one being a loser and reelected) and I could be gone like a shot. ---
**Author:** ![DoggyDunnit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@DoggyDunnit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoggyDunnit)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-make-you-leave-the-u-s-a-and-renounce-your-citizenship/747748/27 "2016-03-03T01:37:50Z")
I’ve wanted to move out of the United States for a looooong time. Screw this place, with the exception of a few states that actually qualify as civilization: Washington, Oregon, Vermont, Minnesota, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Mexico, Colorado, Illinois, California… …I’d not renounce my citizenship, however, since I’d wanna still be able to visit the people and places I care about without burdensome restrictions. ---
**Author:** ![Backwater\_Under\_Duck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@Backwater\_Under\_Duck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Backwater_Under_Duck)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-make-you-leave-the-u-s-a-and-renounce-your-citizenship/747748/28 "2016-03-03T02:25:16Z")
I don’t believe you can be _Stateless_ in any country. You have to have identification everywhere. If you don’t have a passport they will kick you out. This actually sounds like a sovereign citizen fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-make-you-leave-the-u-s-a-and-renounce-your-citizenship/747748/29 "2016-03-03T02:36:45Z")
I moved from the US to Australia some years ago, and am a dual citizen. I am highly unlikely to renounce my US citizenship, for reasons both practical and emotional. Emotionally, I am an American; it’s a part of my identity. This is not something I can explain or justify, it simply is. Practically, I have family in the States, and renouncing would make visits a pain in the neck, and maybe impossible. That being said, the current crop of Republican candidates scare me, so it’s a question that’s been on my mind. _If_ Trump manages to get elected, and _if_ he manages to get through some of his proposals - building the wall, mass deportation, killing families - then I may consider renouncing on moral grounds\*. Oh, as to the taxation question - yes, I do still have to file US tax returns yearly. There is an exemption on the first 90,000 USD (roughly) earned from non-US sources, though, so I don’t have to pay anything. I just don’t make that much. Overall, I’m quite unlikely to ever move back to the States, but I expect to remain an American citizen until I die. Fingers crossed my country never does things to change that. \*I am unlikely to be directly affected, being a white male, but some things… ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-make-you-leave-the-u-s-a-and-renounce-your-citizenship/747748/30 "2016-03-03T02:58:08Z")
It would take a lot for me to actually do it, but I have given it enough thought over the last few years to actually look at some other places just out of curiousness. I dunno, my thoughts on the matter run more like **The Great Sun Jester’s** in that I’d probably take up arms in a rebellion first. Moving to another country is damn difficult for most of us plebes. ---
**Author:** ![Reluctant\_A](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@Reluctant\_A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reluctant_A)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-make-you-leave-the-u-s-a-and-renounce-your-citizenship/747748/31 "2016-03-03T02:58:11Z")
I mean, if they repealed the Fourteenth Amendment, that’d about do it. I can’t think of much else, though. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-make-you-leave-the-u-s-a-and-renounce-your-citizenship/747748/32 "2016-03-03T03:32:53Z")
I’d do it for free if I was offered a good job in a country I liked. I’m not particularly fond of this country and I’m looking to leave whenever the opportunity presents itself. ---
**Author:** ![kferr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71e660/32.png) [@kferr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kferr)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-make-you-leave-the-u-s-a-and-renounce-your-citizenship/747748/33 "2016-03-03T13:04:45Z")
I’ve already done it. I came to the UK on a temporary work assignment in 1994 that turned into a permanent assignment in 1995. In 2001 I gained UK citizenship. In 2014 I started working with a financial planner to get my savings working better for retirement. That’s when I learned about all the FATCA hassle. There’s a good article at [the BBC](http://www.bbc.com/news/35383435) that explains it. I filed the paperwork and made the request for a renunciation interview in early 2015. Got the appointment in August. Went to the embassy in London, filled out some more paperwork, did an affirmation in front of the vice consul, paid the $2350, and that was it. No second thoughts, no regrets, glad to have it over with so I could get on with life. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-make-you-leave-the-u-s-a-and-renounce-your-citizenship/747748/34 "2016-03-03T13:53:01Z")
I do not buy lottery tickets, but let’s say I find one on the street, pick it up, and it’s a bazillion dollar winner. We’d move to the Caribbean. I even have an idea of the neighborhood. As for my US citizenship, id consult a tax advisor/financial planner. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-make-you-leave-the-u-s-a-and-renounce-your-citizenship/747748/35 "2016-03-03T15:49:41Z")
> [@kferr](#): > > I’ve already done it. You’re not the only one: Terry Gilliam (of Monty Python fame) has done the same thing. from [wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Gilliam) > [@](#): > > In 1968, Gilliam obtained British citizenship, then held dual American and British citizenship for the next 38 years. In January 2006 he renounced his American citizenship… he described the action as a protest against then-President George W. Bush, and in an earlier interview, he also indicated that it was related to concerns about future tax liability for his wife and children. As a result of renouncing his citizenship, Gilliam is only permitted to spend 29 days per year in the United States, fewer than ordinary British citizens my guess is that, like **kferr** , it’s the taxation issue that motivated Gilliam more than the politics of GW Bush. (oops!! ----I just read post number 10. Sorry , folks. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-make-you-leave-the-u-s-a-and-renounce-your-citizenship/747748/36 "2016-03-03T16:07:49Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > Before I answer, what exactly would renouncing my citizenship do? It is really as simple of me no longer being an American? or am I not allowed back in the country or wanted for treason or something like that? You’d have to give up your membership in Sam’s Club. > [@Iamnotivan](#): > > The U.S. in its relentless Bully-of-the-world position has lately forced other nations - incl Canada, and ex-pats to tow the line Where do they have to tow it? We have a shortage of good parking spaces. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-make-you-leave-the-u-s-a-and-renounce-your-citizenship/747748/37 "2016-03-03T16:12:07Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Exactly. The US is fairly unique in that you can up and come here, get a card and dig ditches. That card takes years and thousands of dollars, it’s not exactly a matter of walking in. > [@Backwater\_Under\_Duck](#): > > I don’t believe you can be _Stateless_ in any country. Yes you can, to the point that the UN came up with a “stateless person passport” for people who don’t have any country that will consider them its responsibility. Some of them are people who got caught in a war; some are children of refugees who don’t have either the nationality of their parents or that of the country of reception; some are (used to be) expats from countries which require their citizens to do something in order to keep their citizenship and lost it due to not keeping up with the paperwork; an aunt of mine found herself stateless because her parents had not recorded her birth with either the country where they lived or the country of which the parents were citizens. > [@](#): > > You have to have identification everywhere. No, you don’t. There are many countries which do not require their citizens to have ID (and I’m not talking about hellholes exclusively, unless you think the UK and US are hellholes); not having one may make your life harder but it doesn’t get you someplace’s passport either. > [@](#): > > This actually sounds like a sovereign citizen fantasy. Ah, something I can agree with. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-make-you-leave-the-u-s-a-and-renounce-your-citizenship/747748/38 "2016-03-03T17:22:14Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Exactly. The US is fairly unique in that you can up and come here, get a card and dig ditches. You cannot do that in most countries. For all the bleating about how poorly the US treats immigrants…try and become a legal dishwasher in another country. > > I mean if its easy, then i fully admit to being wrong but i don’t think its that easy. (a) It isn’t easy and (b) it’s no more difficult than most developed countries, and (c) you’re about 30 years out of date. The world moved mostly moved on, unless you can’t speak the language at all. Fwiw, Englsih speaking immigrants quite like Uber - they can work as many hours as they like and they’re self employed p.s. GPS has been invented. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-make-you-leave-the-u-s-a-and-renounce-your-citizenship/747748/39 "2016-03-03T17:24:14Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Exactly. The US is fairly unique in that you can up and come here, get a card and dig ditches. You cannot do that in most countries. For all the bleating about how poorly the US treats immigrants…try and become a legal dishwasher in another country. > > I mean if its easy, then i fully admit to being wrong but i don’t think its that easy. no, you can come here and dig ditches, but if you try to get a “card” or are otherwise discovered you’ll likely be escorted out. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-make-you-leave-the-u-s-a-and-renounce-your-citizenship/747748/40 "2016-03-03T17:32:41Z")
Who ever uses the word “renounce”? Unless you’re in some Victorian novel you let it go, give it up - something less dramatic or pejorative. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-make-you-leave-the-u-s-a-and-renounce-your-citizenship/747748.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-make-you-leave-the-u-s-a-and-renounce-your-citizenship/747748.md?page=3)