# What would it take to start a new country? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 9, 2017, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-start-a-new-country/786206 "2017-05-09T16:36:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-start-a-new-country/786206/41 "2017-05-10T23:17:20Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Such a habitat would, just like a ship, fall under the international law of the sea. The open sea, legally, can’t be the sovereign territory of any state. 'Ain’t _claiming_ the open sea—it’s claiming a patch of territory on the _seabed_. 😃 Slightly more seriously, though, _SamuelA_’s post is probably the most on-the-money when it comes to a defense of a strategy like this. Although, to combine the two, or just be sillier, if you’re in shallow enough water (or have access to a shallow patch), you might built up enough dirt/rock to create a _tiny_ artificial island, proclaim _that_ to be the territory of your new country, and just do most of the actual country-building work underwater. Or on permanently moored platforms or barges. Which is more practical, but lacks the artistic flair. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-start-a-new-country/786206/42 "2017-05-10T23:41:35Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > Those ‘laws’ are just negotiations made at gunpoint with \*other \*nations. If you were powerful enough (aka a sci fi/fantasy scenario like in Bioshock), you could force the other nations to amend those laws of the sea eventually. It might take decades, but initially, you’d be in violation of international law, but if you could do damage to anyone who tried to object with force, they might let you get away with it. Once your nation has been around long enough - and has enough trading partners and allies to get those needed votes at the UN - you could get the laws changed. But underwater you’ll never pull it off. If you were Bill Gates rich you’d spend all your money keeping people alive and fed. You’d have no money for torpedoes and machine guns. You’re better off claiming a slice of Antarctica, or an unused island like Siple, which has the advantage of being actual land, in no one’s economic zone of control, and even if your initial settlement was on a “claimed” part, you’d likely just be regarded as a silly nuisance not worth the effort to get rid of. Only after you were well established would anyone start to wonder if they should do something. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-start-a-new-country/786206/43 "2017-05-10T23:48:13Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > But underwater you’ll never pull it off. If you were Bill Gates rich you’d spend all your money keeping people alive and fed. You’d have no money for torpedoes and machine guns. Well, in Bioshock they have magic powers, so being underwater is somehow not too serious of a problem. In a sci fi scenario, if Bill Gates had a _self-replicating_ industrial plant, it wouldn’t cost him anything to expand the colony or keep it running. Both scenarios are not the universe we live in, I’m just saying, if you \*could \*set up shop underwater and torpedo anyone who objected hard enough that no one finds it worth it to stop you, you get to stay there. ---
**Author:** ![Arjuna34](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Arjuna34](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arjuna34)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-start-a-new-country/786206/44 "2017-05-10T23:52:49Z")
The Straight Dope on the subject: [How do I go about starting my own country?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/783/how-do-i-go-about-starting-my-own-country) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2017, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-start-a-new-country/786206/45 "2017-05-11T02:02:02Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > (trump did it, while being much less qualified than Obama), **Moderator Note** Let’s refrain from political commentary in GQ. No warning issued. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2017, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-start-a-new-country/786206/46 "2017-05-11T03:09:30Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Such a habitat would, just like a ship, fall under the international law of the sea. The open sea, legally, can’t be the sovereign territory of any state. > > If you could build up enough dirt to CREATE an island, now you’ve got something, maybe. If it’s in a country’s economic zone, though, it’s theirs. So you need to be way, way out there. This was tried, in 1972: > **[Minerva Reefs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minerva_Reefs)** > > The Minerva Reefs (Tongan: Ongo Teleki) are a group of two submerged atolls located in the Pacific Ocean between Fiji, Niue and Tonga. The islands are the subject of a territorial dispute between Fiji and Tonga, and in addition were briefly claimed by American Libertarians as the centre of a micronation, the Republic of Minerva. > The reefs were named after the whaleship Minerva, wrecked on what became known as South Minerva after setting out from Sydney in 1829. Many other ships would follow, for... TL; DR, US millionaire tried to create artificial island and declare independence, the nearest country (Tonga) objected and claimed the reef, even though it wasn’t in their territory. Nearby nations recognized Tonga’s claim and that was that. If someone wants to try again I suggest picking a reef thats even further from any actual country. Maybe start at point Nemo and look for the closed reef thats semi submerged to that? Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2017, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-start-a-new-country/786206/47 "2017-05-11T18:49:24Z")
What about a permanent large houseboat (city ship?) like an old carrier, [the Freedom Ship](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Ship), or [The World](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_The_World)? Do they HAVE to fly the flag of an existing nation, or are they free to collaboratively form a new state, abandon previous citizenships, hire a mercenary escort, etc.? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-start-a-new-country/786206/48 "2017-05-11T19:04:35Z")
You can do whatever you want. And the various navies, armies, police forces, courts, and prison guards employed by various countries around the world get to.do whatever they want. You become an independent country when people around the world act as if you are an independent country. There’s no magic pixie dust. The problem is that it is very difficult to convince other countries to.act as if you are independent, and even if they do that doesn’t mean they will let you do whatever you like. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-it-take-to-start-a-new-country/786206.md?page=2)