# What would Jesus think about all the adulation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 27, 2011, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-jesus-think-about-all-the-adulation/607508 "2011-12-27T10:35:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![DaveBfd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DaveBfd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveBfd)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-jesus-think-about-all-the-adulation/607508/161 "2011-12-29T17:34:57Z")
Why would he ban you? I think all of us just expect you to have a point when you post something. The only reason you would be unpopular (which isnt true) is because you are misunderstanding what we’re asking and expecting of you in your posts. ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-jesus-think-about-all-the-adulation/607508/162 "2011-12-29T17:37:33Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Do you understand what a null hypothesis is? It’s not an end-all, be-all argument. It’s the default position to take when trying to prove something positively true. > > Example: > > H0: The test drug (Drug A) will be no better than the control (Sugar pill) at curing cancer > H1: The test drug will be statistically better than the control at curing cancer. > > It’s not necessary to prove a sugar pill won’t cure cancer. It’s the default assumption. This assumption CAN be falsified, but you don’t set out to prove it, either. > > And, in general, the null hypothesis is that there is nothing there (no connection or existence). So, if you approach the question of the existence of any sort of deity, the default position you generally take is non-existence (which can be falsified), with an alternate hypothesis of existence (which must then be proven). That is all just a very complicated way of rationalizing atheism. Instead of trying to untie this Gordian Knot of words, I’ll just cut right through it. This is all just diversion and misdirection. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-jesus-think-about-all-the-adulation/607508/163 "2011-12-29T17:41:14Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > I’m not here to convert anyone, if that’s what you mean. It isn’t. What I meant is exactly what I said: _What exactly are you trying to accomplish here?_ You’re making claims without supporting them, you’re snarking on things without understanding them, and you’re assuming a lot of ill intent on the part of other posters. Not that you’re the first person to do that, but you seem to think this is going to prove some kind of point. It won’t. If you slow down and focus, the discussions you engage in should be more worthwhile. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-jesus-think-about-all-the-adulation/607508/164 "2011-12-29T17:42:17Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > That is all just a very complicated way of rationalizing atheism. Instead of trying to untie this Gordian Knot of words, I’ll just cut right through it. This is all just diversion and misdirection. Actually, I’m a theist. I just happen to understand the argument and have a healthy respect for anybody who doesn’t take things entirely on blind faith. It’s not really a Gordian knot but nice try. To be honest, you come across like the kids I tutor in math. The stuff isn’t as hard as they’re making out but they have a mental block about it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-jesus-think-about-all-the-adulation/607508/165 "2011-12-29T17:59:46Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > It is not logical to believe in God or Jesus. I should have made that clear. And yet I believe … not because I am logical. Love for my family doesn’t come from logic, either. Well, actually, there is a certain logic to it, in the sense that believing as your family believes (and forming certain bonding-emotional attachments to them) offers the advantage of increasing your chances of surviving to adulthood and then successfully reproducing (I assume “family” refers initially to your parents and siblings and then later to your spouse and children, who themselves you expect to see reach adulthood and reproduce). That these feelings feel _good_ (as opposed to just being a mechanical process one follows out of instinct) are an additional benefit. Of course, it still says nothing about the actual divinity (or existence) of God or Jesus, nor why a substitute like Zeus wouldn’t work just as well. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-jesus-think-about-all-the-adulation/607508/166 "2011-12-29T18:04:25Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > That is all just a very complicated way of rationalizing atheism. Instead of trying to untie this Gordian Knot of words, I’ll just cut right through it. This is all just diversion and misdirection. Rather than being a “Gordian Knot of words”, I found that to be the most clear explanation of the null hypothesis I’ve ever read. I understand it much better now, so thanks, **Great Antibob**. If you, **Theophane** , are just going to respond to every post you don’t like with something along the lines of “you’re just rationalizing atheism”, then no, you’re not going to be very popular around here. I’d suggest making a reasonable attempt to engage in debates by responding to people’s points and answering their questions. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-jesus-think-about-all-the-adulation/607508/167 "2011-12-29T18:16:48Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > That is all just a very complicated way of rationalizing atheism. Instead of trying to untie this Gordian Knot of words, I’ll just cut right through it. This is all just diversion and misdirection. I’m very confident I can explain the “null hypothesis” approach to you in a manner that is clear, comprehensive and not condescending. Are you open to this? ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-jesus-think-about-all-the-adulation/607508/168 "2011-12-29T19:53:24Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, actually, there is a certain logic to it, in the sense that believing as your family believes (and forming certain bonding-emotional attachments to them) offers the advantage of increasing your chances of surviving to adulthood and then successfully reproducing (I assume “family” refers initially to your parents and siblings and then later to your spouse and children, who themselves you expect to see reach adulthood and reproduce). > > That these feelings feel _good_ (as opposed to just being a mechanical process one follows out of instinct) are an additional benefit. > > Of course, it still says nothing about the actual divinity (or existence) of God or Jesus, nor why a substitute like Zeus wouldn’t work just as well. I appreciate you being on the level with me, Bryan. Thanks. 🙂 As you probably realize, religious faith is manifested in a different part of the brain than logic and analytical skills. Literally. There is a “God-zone” [area of the brain](http://www.livescience.com/3366-scientists-god-brain.html) that seems to be manifesting activity related to religious experience … and nothing else. But is this “God-zone” the origin of religious experience or is it just a receiver, an antenna to God? Make of it what you will. Make of the science what you will. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-jesus-think-about-all-the-adulation/607508/169 "2011-12-29T20:05:17Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > As you probably realize, religious faith is manifested in a different part of the brain than logic and analytical skills. Literally. There is a “God-zone” [area of the brain](http://www.livescience.com/3366-scientists-god-brain.html) that seems to be manifesting activity related to religious experience … and nothing else. This is wrong, and your cite flatly contradicts it: > [@](#): > > Such results fit with previous research which shows that no single “God spot” exists in the brain. [Here is another report discussing this part of the temporal lobe and its connection to spiritual experiences.](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104067676) ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-jesus-think-about-all-the-adulation/607508/170 "2011-12-29T20:08:35Z")
I’m not sure exactly what the God Helmet proves or disproves, if anything. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-jesus-think-about-all-the-adulation/607508/171 "2011-12-29T20:11:37Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > I’m not sure exactly what the God Helmet proves or disproves, if anything. I thought this was interesting: > [@](#): > > I had boned up on Persinger’s theories about spiritual experience, and they boiled down to this: spiritual experience is a trick of the brain. It can be triggered by head injuries and brain dysfunctions such as epilepsy, by the earth’s magnetic fields, and by machines like his “God helmet.” > > […] > > “When you stimulate the left hemisphere, you’re aware of your ‘self’ — of you as an individual,” Persinger explained. “So the question to ask is, What is the right-hemispheric equivalent of that left-hemispheric sense of self ? And the answer is, the ‘Sensed Presence’: the feeling of another entity, of another sentient being that has emotional, meaningful, personally significant, and expansive temporal and spatial properties.” > > If you stimulate the right side of your brain in a certain way, he said, you sense someone nearby. In this way, Persinger claimed to create “the prototype of the God experience.” Persinger claimed that fully 80 percent of the 2,000 or so subjects who have donned the God helmet report feeling a sensed presence, as well as dizziness, vibrations, spinning, and visions. > > Even better, Persinger believed he had found the sweet spot for spiritual experience: the right temporal lobe of the brain. The temporal lobe, which runs along the side of your head near the ears, is involved with memory, emotions, and meaning, as well as hearing and language comprehension. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-jesus-think-about-all-the-adulation/607508/172 "2011-12-29T20:52:28Z")
The God Helmet? Is that what the kids are calling it these days? ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-jesus-think-about-all-the-adulation/607508/173 "2011-12-29T21:00:06Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > This is wrong, and your cite flatly contradicts it: Good thing we’re not keeping score! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-jesus-think-about-all-the-adulation/607508/174 "2011-12-29T21:07:16Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > Good thing we’re not keeping score! Once again, check the title of this forum. In this debate you seem to be losing points right and left. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-jesus-think-about-all-the-adulation/607508/175 "2011-12-29T21:07:24Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > Magnificent. 😃 > > In his own mind, an atheist is never defeated. Not by logic, not by anything. Because the believers never come up with any evidence for their side. Atheists are “never defeated” in arguments because they don’t lose. Which isn’t hard when your opponents _always_ show up for a gunfight with a pistol carved out of wood. You want to make religion a genuine contender? Come up with some evidence that your side is true. Come up with some evidence that it’s even possible. But you can’t, because it’s not real and you have no such evidence and never will. > [@Theophane](#): > > Go ahead and ban me if that’s what you want. > [@DaveBfd](#): > > Why would he ban you? So **Theophane** can feel like an Internet martyr, brutally oppressed by the atheistic Satan worshiping mods of the SDMB. They banned him because they could not stand to hear The Truth! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-jesus-think-about-all-the-adulation/607508/176 "2011-12-29T21:16:59Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > Good thing we’re not keeping score! We’re not, no. But what you said is still incorrect. Does that matter to you? Do facts have any bearing on your arguments or behavior? This is why I’m asking what you’re trying to accomplish. ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-jesus-think-about-all-the-adulation/607508/177 "2011-12-29T21:20:27Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Once again, check the title of this forum. In this debate you seem to be losing points right and left. I don’t mind that. I’m not playing to win. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-jesus-think-about-all-the-adulation/607508/178 "2011-12-29T21:23:44Z")
What _are_ you doing? ---
**Author:** ![DaveBfd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DaveBfd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveBfd)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-jesus-think-about-all-the-adulation/607508/179 "2011-12-29T21:29:10Z")
Trolling sideways ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-jesus-think-about-all-the-adulation/607508/180 "2011-12-29T21:29:23Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > We’re not, no. But what you said is still incorrect. Does that matter to you? Do facts have any bearing on your arguments or behavior? This is why I’m asking what you’re trying to accomplish. I’m not worried about proving my intellectual superioty. I’m not trying to accomplish that. The things I say that are related to my faith upset people because I don’t cite them with facts. What facts could I cite when I’m stating my faith? How do I “prove” these things are scientific facts when they are not scientific facts? “I believe in God the Father” is a faith statement. It can’t be confirmed or refuted in the usual sense. I love my family but I have no facts to prove it. Why is this such a problem? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-jesus-think-about-all-the-adulation/607508.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-jesus-think-about-all-the-adulation/607508.md?page=10)