# What would make you flee (or fight)? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 26, 2018, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-make-you-flee-or-fight/816803 "2018-06-26T22:15:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-make-you-flee-or-fight/816803/21 "2018-06-27T02:38:13Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Any actual attempt to postpone/suspend/cancel elections would be a big one. I mean, New York City once postponed a mayoral primary election by a couple of weeks, but given that the elections in question were [originally scheduled for September 11, 2001](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_mayoral_election,_2001#Background), I think that was pretty reasonable (and unavoidable). But the United States as a whole didn’t cancel national elections for the Civil War, so unless the aliens invade on Tuesday, November 6, 2018, or the Yellowstone super-volcano blows its top on Tuesday, November 3, 2020, any attempt to interfere with either of those would be a major sign of shit-hitting-the-fan. (And no, I don’t _think_ my reaction would be “flee”, but how can I really say what I–a middle-aged former cubicle drone who has always been “the bookish type”–would really do?) Or overturn an election. Even an election with a very contentious outcome, where the SCOTUS steps in, might do it for me, depending on the circumstances. Like an Al Gore redux. I wonder how different the reaction of the populous would be if something like that happened in 2020. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-make-you-flee-or-fight/816803/22 "2018-06-27T03:57:16Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > That’s pretty much just what I came to say. Me three… ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-make-you-flee-or-fight/816803/23 "2018-06-27T07:03:49Z")
I’ve done it twice. The first time to avoid non-defensive military combat. When the threat subsided, I returned. The second time to avoid looming geriatric limbo without the financial resources to make the prospects tolerable. Regarding the cancellation of elections, I was quite honestly surprised when Bush-Cheney did not announce that “America has never before had a presidential election when actively engaged in hostilities to defend us from an enemy with nuclear power, so we cannot risk a change in administration. These ae unprecedented times”. ---
**Author:** ![Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delicious)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-make-you-flee-or-fight/816803/24 "2018-06-27T18:07:05Z")
Probably when the government starts ramping up police/military combined with some kind of suppressive policies like seizing private property/concentrating people/shutting down media. It depends though, I might be able to get in with the baddies, then I’d be safe and maybe get some extra living space. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-make-you-flee-or-fight/816803/25 "2018-06-27T19:40:22Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > This is my country and I’m not leaving. There is nothing that would make me flee. There are things that would make me join an insurgency, but I decline to discuss them here. And another. (Wait…would we all be on the same side I wonder?) As for what it would take to join the underground / resistors? When there is irrefutable evidence The Gummint has begun waging a war on its own citizens, or has greenlighted genocide within our borders I will do my bit to stop that. I don’t believe in preemptive violence. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-make-you-flee-or-fight/816803/26 "2018-06-27T20:22:50Z")
> [@C3](#): > > In Nazi Germany, there were people who saw warning signs when there were calls for Jewish businesses to be boycotted, or when Kristallnacht occurred, and they tried to leave if they could or at least take measures to protect themselves. This is it for me - literally. I’m always on the lookout for signs that the government is sanctioning anti-Semitism. If I were ever to feel that my freedom was threatened because I am Jewish, I would be looking for a way out. That is one reason that I always keep a valid passport. The tricky thing is figuring out the safest place to go - many Jews who fled Germany ended up in places that turned out to be equally dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-make-you-flee-or-fight/816803/27 "2018-06-27T20:32:47Z")
Now, it’s Eight. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-make-you-flee-or-fight/816803/28 "2018-06-27T20:36:38Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > This is my country and I’m not leaving. There is nothing that would make me flee. There are things that would make me join an insurgency, but I decline to discuss them here. Not me. I’m already looking at getting out. The GOP opening concentration camps was the last straw, and while I have little doubt that mass murders are coming (already here if you count murder-by-indifference like in Puerto Rico, institutionalized police murders of African Americans, ignoring (or worse, dismissing as “crisis actors”) near-daily school shootings, mobilization of the military to patrol just the border the brown people come across, refusal to accept refugees in life-or-death straights, mass fear-mongering with a “guns will save you!” motif, and the folks whose health insurance they’ve taken away), even less obvious things like the GOP taking away social security and medicare are making the US unlivable for me in retirement. Violence may be a necessary answer, but it’s not _my_ answer. The US is vastly more racist and corrupt than I’d have believed before the 2016 election, but it’s not like “we” didn’t vote for this by choice. I support efforts to save those that the Government is trying to marginalize and kill, but it’s not going to be me taking up arms to do it. Frankly, I hope the military wakes up and starts refusing to be part of this crap, but at this point I think we’re going to go full Nazi Germany and out the other side, first. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-make-you-flee-or-fight/816803/29 "2018-06-27T20:42:29Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > …but at this point I think we’re going to go full Nazi Germany and out the other side, first. Could be. Which suggests an interesting thread: “How would survivors of the victorious USA resistance treat expats, having abandoned their homeland, seeking reentry?” My guess is, “unkindly” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-make-you-flee-or-fight/816803/30 "2018-06-27T20:48:53Z")
I’d consider moving to another country if there were better and safer circumstances for my family. I don’t know if that’s fleeing, because I’d consider it regardless of the political situation. I imagine most folks would. As far as fighting, it’s hard to imagine anything that could make me attack other Americans. But there’s lots of circumstances in which I’d defend myself (and others) – I hope I’d hide those persecuted for their race/religion/sexuality/etc. if they were threatened by an authoritarian government (which doesn’t seem nearly as unlikely now as it did a few years ago). And I hope I’d defend them physically if they were being attacked. I think I would, but one can never know for sure unless they’re in those circumstances. This goes for strangers – for family, of course, I’d certainly defend them if they were under attack. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-make-you-flee-or-fight/816803/31 "2018-06-27T20:58:27Z")
If/when Mueller’s investigation concludes with a recommendation to prosecute Trump and a Republican-controlled Congress/Senate refuses to do so, I’m out. At that point, the rule of law doesn’t mean anything anymore. As for how… well, I’ve already turned down one job in Europe so far this year, so I’d just start looking again. My only concern is that many countries don’t allow pit bulls of any sort, so that kind of limits my choices. My wife would, of course, have to look for a new job in our new location, but she’s in an industry which wouldn’t make that too difficult. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-make-you-flee-or-fight/816803/32 "2018-06-27T21:16:08Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > This is my country and I’m not leaving. There is nothing that would make me flee. There are things that would make me join an insurgency, but I decline to discuss them here. That’s pretty much the way I feel as well. I’d probably send the wife and kids packing (likely to visit some European or Canadian friends), but I’d stay. I imagine for me, it would be wholesale and open flaunting of the Constitution, not nibbling at the edges barely within the law like they do today. By that I mean that the government is both openly disregarding the prohibitions of the Constitution, and the judicial branch is refusing or unable to put a stop to it. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-make-you-flee-or-fight/816803/33 "2018-06-27T21:33:37Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Could be. Which suggests an interesting thread: “How would survivors of the victorious USA resistance treat expats, having abandoned their homeland, seeking reentry?” > > My guess is, “unkindly” I’m not the potential resistance, I’m one (actually a couple) of the targeted groups. How did Germany treat Jews after the war? In any case, when things have gotten bad enough that the safe answer is to leave (and we’re darn close), why would I be seeking reentry later? We did this once, we could again. ---
**Author:** ![Textual\_Innuendo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/898d66/32.png) [@Textual\_Innuendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Textual_Innuendo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-make-you-flee-or-fight/816803/34 "2018-06-27T23:49:49Z")
> [@Kron](#): > > Eh, if somebody called me today and said they had a way I could become a Canadian citizen, I’d probably be packed by the end of the week. I’ve never really had the tribalist nature, and I wish that emigration was a lot easier. It’s the ultimate expression of free-market ideals- may the best national ideals win! This is where I’m at, too. Especially the free-market national ideals thing - I really wish we had something like the Eurozone where we could migrate to a family of other countries based on US citizenship. I was once happily an expat and will likely be a happy expat again sometime in the next decade. And if France, Germany, Switzerland, Belgium, Italy, or Spain were passing out citizenships to people in my demographic and career, I’d jump on it. Frankly, the US is already doomed from where I’m standing. Not in any apocalypse or “becoming irrelevant on the world stage” way, but morally and politically. [ol] [li]The US is already a police state (highest number of prisoners in absolute numbers and per capita, all communications everywhere spied on already), and nobody cares.[/li][li] ~Half of the country happily voted a grifting, inarticulate, reality-star conman into the Presidency, whose cronies are being indicted left and right and who is under direct investigation for things that are literally treasonous.[/li][li] Despite that, a full 40% of people STILL APPROVE of said grifting conman, despite investigations and laughably and explicitly evil policies such as “let’s throw children into concentration camps”.[/li][li] Healthcare is an epic for-profit clusterfuck where the bulk of the system is directly incentivized to kill sick children and grandmothers to pad their bottom line and increase executive bonuses.[/li][li] Our politicians are all millionaires, and the country is run primarily for the benefit of millionaires, billionaires, and corporations. See the FCC screwing the entire population of the US for Comcast’s benefits. See the EPA being dismantled for the oil companies. See copyright and patent laws that mean the majority of intellectual property in the last 70 years are permanently outside of the public domain, and will remain so thanks to Disney. See “money = speech” enshrined into the highest law of the land, meaning you need to pimp yourself out to the tune of tens of millions to have a chance to get into elected federal office. [/li][li] The US political system is so comprehensively fucked it cannot and will not address a single one of the problems above, and instead operates on the “insert suitcase of cash, get back desired legislation” vending machine model, and is so fundamentally corrupted that people with a realistic chance and a vocal desire to change ANY of the above are currently unelectable.[/li][/ol] So, that’s what you guys are up against. Good luck fighting the 40%-50% of the country that thinks all of the above are the highest and best moral and political principles, worth fighting and dying over. Really, the worst of it is that the US will become a global geopolitical wild card in the same family as North Korea and Pakistan - aka mentally unstable, petulant demagogues with nukes. Will they use them? Who knows?? All the sane countries can do is hope! Well, I know it’s the coward’s way out, but I’ll hopefully be in one of those sane countries hoping not to get nuked by some petulant crybaby US dictator, and will leave it to all you patriots to figure it out, because I don’t think this game is winnable. I fold. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-make-you-flee-or-fight/816803/35 "2018-06-28T03:06:49Z")
I’m planning on leaving this country immediately because the government is literally giving people weapons and training them to kill all enemies foreign and domestic. The government calls it “The Army” but I have a more alarmist name for it, “The Kill-Bot Factory” ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-make-you-flee-or-fight/816803/36 "2018-06-28T06:19:57Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > This is my country and I’m not leaving. There is nothing that would make me flee. There are things that would make me join an insurgency, but I decline to discuss them here. This, I really don’t get. It’s a sentiment I see expressed all the time by people in countries that have gone to hell or are on the way. History has taught us what to do in these circumstances many times and the lesson isn’t “Hang in there, it’ll turn out okay.” I’m leaving as quickly as I can, and I’ll be shaking my head while watching the people I left behind on CNN talking about enduring pogroms, ethnic cleansings, genocide, atrocities or holocausts but “it’s my country and I ain’t a-budging.” Fighting an outside invader is one thing, but a moral collapse of society into some sort of dystopia is another. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-make-you-flee-or-fight/816803/37 "2018-06-28T07:18:16Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > … I’m leaving as quickly as I can… Just curious, where you headed? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-make-you-flee-or-fight/816803/38 "2018-06-28T09:12:58Z")
> [@C3](#): > > What events would have to happen for you to flee the country or join an underground band of resistors? What signal would have you building the bunker? I’m South African. My city finally [running out of wate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Town_water_crisis)r, a breakdown of the electricity grid (worse than it [already is](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskom#Power_shortage:_2007_-_2015)) or outright civil war are things that would make me leave. Otherwise, I’m good. I’ve been a peripheral member of an underground resistance before, but I don’t really see the circumstances for that arising again. I’d go to Europe or Canada if I had to flee. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-make-you-flee-or-fight/816803/39 "2018-06-28T10:35:14Z")
> [@Kron](#): > > Eh, if somebody called me today and said they had a way I could become a Canadian citizen, I’d probably be packed by the end of the week. I’ve never really had the tribalist nature, and I wish that emigration was a lot easier. This could apply to me, especially since it’s just me now. > [@](#): > > It’s the ultimate expression of free-market ideals- may the best national ideals win! And that’s one of the reasons nations don’t want free-and-easy migration - various administrations probably fear their constituents would all get up and go elsewhere. I realize some people feel that fleeing is a cowardly act, but as a small, middle-aged woman I would have limited use as a partisan fighter. That, and running away has served my family well for generations. Those that stood their ground in Europe no longer exist. ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2018, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-make-you-flee-or-fight/816803/40 "2018-06-28T11:35:43Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I’m South African. My city finally [running out of wate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Town_water_crisis)r, a breakdown of the electricity grid (worse than it [already is](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskom#Power_shortage:_2007_-_2015)) or outright civil war are things that would make me leave. Otherwise, I’m good. I’ve read a lot about the Cape Town water shortage, but hadn’t heard anything about the power shortage. You’d have to leave if there’s no water. There’s no “resistance” to no water. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-make-you-flee-or-fight/816803.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-make-you-flee-or-fight/816803.md?page=3)