# What Would Plutocracy Look in the US? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 19, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-plutocracy-look-in-the-us/578976 "2011-04-19T17:15:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-plutocracy-look-in-the-us/578976/61 "2011-04-21T16:41:06Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Total profits from porn in the US: ~$10b/yr (source: [Porn Profits: Corporate America's Secret - ABC News](http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=132370&page=1)) > Total general corporate profits in the US: ~$1.65t/yr (source: [http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/24/business/economy/24econ.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/24/business/economy/24econ.html)) > > Total estimated percentage of US corporate profit that comes from porn: 0.6% > > Yeah, sorry, I’m not seeing it. The relevant comparison is the total size of published media (movies, TV, print, etc). Any sort of moral policing is an annoying layer of regulation, which the plutocrats will want removed even if it doesn’t impede business all **that** much – with that much money, it becomes more a scorecard than wealth _per se_, and losing points because some bureaucrat got the vapors at the sight of titties becomes irritating all out of proportion to the actual losses incurred. This is one of those areas where reflexive anti-government attitudes are beneficial. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-plutocracy-look-in-the-us/578976/62 "2011-04-21T17:02:49Z")
> **[Thought Control: Right-Wing Koch Brothers Caught Telling Thousands of...](https://www.democracynow.org/2011/4/21/thought_control_right_wing_koch_brothers)** > > The Nation magazine has revealed that Koch Industries sent a letter to most of its 50,000 employees on the eve of the November elections, advising them on whom to vote for and warning them of the dire consequences should they choose to vote... The Citizens United decision allows companies to “educate” their employees. Kochsucker Industries has mandatory classes for employees to educate them how to vote . They are allowed to send info to the employees homes warning them of the dangers of not voting Republican. Employees can be scared easily. The right wing knows how to get where they want to go. It will be ugly for the rest of us. Unions are prohibited from doing those things. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-plutocracy-look-in-the-us/578976/63 "2011-04-21T17:26:48Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [Thought Control: Right-Wing Koch Brothers Caught Telling Thousands of Employees How to Vote | Democracy Now!](http://www.democracynow.org/2011/4/21/thought_control_right_wing_koch_brothers) > The Citizens United decision allows companies to “educate” their employees. Kochsucker Industries has mandatory classes for employees to educate them how to vote . They are allowed to send info to the employees homes warning them of the dangers of not voting Republican. Employees can be scared easily. The right wing knows how to get where they want to go. It will be ugly for the rest of us. > Unions are prohibited from doing those things. Sounds dreadful. I suggest we all curl up in a ball and weep quietly. So it seems that the Koch Brothers are working to achieve what I put in the OP. And to what end? If we skipped the part where they scare people into voting [R], and just give those votes directly to Chuck and Dave, what changes? Are there any liberal billionaires that are doing the same thing to get liberal policies pushed through? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-plutocracy-look-in-the-us/578976/64 "2011-04-21T20:40:29Z")
Citizens United made that shit possible. THe Supreme Court knew what they were unleashing on the people. They may be bought off right wingers, but they are not stupid. Of course the case mentioned unions in it as if that is equal. They court is well aware of who owns the media. This was a huge win. But they also know unions do not have the ability to force workers to go to a propaganda meeting. Not all businesses are doing that. But the dead head right wingers are. The Kochs fit that perfectly. Their thirst for power and money has no bounds. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-plutocracy-look-in-the-us/578976/65 "2011-04-21T20:52:06Z")
[http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/04/21/us-farm-companies-charged-with-human-trafficking/](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/04/21/us-farm-companies-charged-with-human-trafficking/) This is not back in 1900. It is today. American corporations involved in human trafficking and abuse of workers. They did the same in Iraq . Do not think corporations have been civilized over time. They are immune. that is why we need to constantly regulate the pricks. There is nothing below them. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-plutocracy-look-in-the-us/578976/66 "2011-04-21T21:41:24Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Thanks to the miracle of capitalism porn is free if you don’t mind ads. But if we had, socialism, now, you could get . . . errrmmm . . . free **prostitution!** 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-plutocracy-look-in-the-us/578976/67 "2011-04-21T21:45:39Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Sounds dreadful. I suggest we all curl up in a ball and weep quietly. > > So it seems that the Koch Brothers are working to achieve what I put in the OP. And to what end? If we skipped the part where they scare people into voting [R], and just give those votes directly to Chuck and Dave, what changes? > > Are there any liberal billionaires that are doing the same thing to get liberal policies pushed through? Well, there’s George Soros, but I never heard of him using the Kochsuckers’ methods. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-plutocracy-look-in-the-us/578976/68 "2011-04-21T22:13:24Z")
> **[Bank Of America Makes Easy Profits Off Fed While Depositors Get Shortchanged](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/big-banks-book-easy-profi_n_852123)** > > Bank Of America Makes Easy Profits Off Fed While Depositors Get Shortchanged Here is Bank of America. It is paying depositors all time low rates for having their money. It makes double that just parking it at the Fed. Free tax money for the people who destroyed the economy of almost the whole world. They were supposed to help business get going by making loans. They are not. This month small business loans dropped again. But they are jacking up the costs for bank services, credit card use , ATM fees and everything else. They were presumably saved to help restart the economy. They don’t feel a bit of responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-plutocracy-look-in-the-us/578976/69 "2011-04-21T22:18:29Z")
[The Forbes 400 2022](http://www.forbes.com/wealth/forbes-400#p_1_s_arank_-1_) This is the top 400 richest Americans. Explain why they need another tax break. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-plutocracy-look-in-the-us/578976/70 "2011-04-21T23:03:31Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [Bank Of America Makes Easy Profits Off Fed While Depositors Get Shortchanged | HuffPost Impact](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/21/big-banks-book-easy-profi_n_852123.html) > Here is Bank of America. It is paying depositors all time low rates for having their money. It makes double that just parking it at the Fed. Free tax money for the people who destroyed the economy of almost the whole world. > They were supposed to help business get going by making loans. They are not. This month small business loans dropped again. But they are jacking up the costs for bank services, credit card use , ATM fees and everything else. > They were presumably saved to help restart the economy. They don’t feel a bit of responsibility. Damn then for making us use their bank! Oh wait, I don’t. Damn this free market with all it’s choice! Did you not realize there are a lot of other banks to choose from? I can’t remember the last time I paid an ATM fee. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-plutocracy-look-in-the-us/578976/71 "2011-04-21T23:13:21Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [The Forbes 400 List 2025 - The Richest People in America Ranked](http://www.forbes.com/wealth/forbes-400#p_1_s_arank_-1_) This is the top 400 richest Americans. Explain why they need another tax break. Did you realize that’s “wealth” not income? Did you also realize that list of 400 is responsible for most of the income tax revenue? If given a choice between the people on that list, and the 400 hillbillies that live down the street from you, who would you rather decide public policy? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-plutocracy-look-in-the-us/578976/72 "2011-04-22T01:49:37Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Did you realize that’s “wealth” not income? > > Did you also realize that list of 400 is responsible for most of the income tax revenue? If given a choice between the people on that list, and the 400 hillbillies that live down the street from you, who would you rather decide public policy? Please don’t show that kind of ignorance ,that they pay a big share of the taxes. The reason for that is they have all the damn money. The top 400 have the same wealth as the bottom 125 million. Does that strike you as right? To make it simple so you guys will quit that silly argument. Suppose a hundred dopers and Warren Buffet were in a group. Warren would be paying a huge percentage of our collective taxes. Can you understand why that argument is silly? He has all the damn money. And his percentage would be far below ours. Why, because since Reagan ,the rich and powerful are getting their taxes cut over and over . They own the politicians . They make the laws. The country can not pay its bills but he gets a tax cut . He is getting the estate tax gutted. He writes off all kinds of stuff. Buffet is actually one of the guys who complains about the inequity. He says his secretary pays a larger portion of her income in taxes than he does. Who can afford it, him or his secretary? Buffet says it is a class war and his class is winning. Mostly because logic escapes so many people who are swayed by an aberrant statistic without meaning. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-plutocracy-look-in-the-us/578976/73 "2011-04-22T02:13:59Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Please don’t show that kind of ignorance ,that they pay a big share of the taxes. The reason for that is they have all the damn money. The top 400 have the same wealth as the bottom 125 million. Does that strike you as right? > To make it simple so you guys will quit that silly argument. Suppose a hundred dopers and Warren Buffet were in a group. Warren would be paying a huge percentage of our collective taxes. Can you understand why that argument is silly? He has all the damn money. And his percentage would be far below ours. Why, because since Reagan ,the rich and powerful are getting their taxes cut over and over . They own the politicians . They make the laws. The country can not pay its bills but he gets a tax cut . He is getting the estate tax gutted. He writes off all kinds of stuff. > Buffet is actually one of the guys who complains about the inequity. He says his secretary pays a larger portion of her income in taxes than he does. Who can afford it, him or his secretary? Buffet says it is a class war and his class is winning. Mostly because logic escapes so many people who are swayed by an aberrant statistic without meaning. You forgot to include a random link to something unrelated. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-plutocracy-look-in-the-us/578976/74 "2011-04-22T02:21:58Z")
Read the Latest Rolling Stone . It has an article about TALF.Term Access security Loan Facility. Congress and The Senate have been fighting to get the Fed, Reserve books opened. They have been rebuffed for the hast century but finally got 2 years opened. What did they find? 220 million dollars loaned to 2 Morgan Stanley wives who set up a company to buy business mortgages. They had no business background except ran a couple charities @ trillion went to Morgan Stanley and Citigroup. They did not loan it out like we wanted. They got the money for free and then bought government securities. They got interest and made money doing nothing. Then claimed to pay back the tax payers. (using our money) they did not jump start the economy. Wayne Huizenga owner of the Dolfins gotv millions. John Paulson hedge fund billionaire got his hands on fre government money The fund bought securities from BMW, VW, Honda, Mitsubishi and gave low cost loans to competitors of GM and Chysler while we were trying to save them. real bright. 9.6 billion went to Bank of Mexico 2,.2 billion went to Bank of Korea 35 billion went to Arab bank of Bahrain,%9 percent of ownership is Gadaffy. Millions went to hedge funds and with addresses in the Cayman Islands. So we financed tax dodging. The wives of the Morgan Stanley execs also had a Cayman Island address. We love tax cheats. But of course if you want to fix our economy, cut the wages of teachers and public workers. That makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-plutocracy-look-in-the-us/578976/75 "2011-04-22T02:32:54Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Buffet is actually one of the guys who complains about the inequity. He says his secretary pays a larger portion of her income in taxes than he does. Who can afford it, him or his secretary? Buffet says it is a class war and his class is winning. Mostly because logic escapes so many people who are swayed by an aberrant statistic without meaning. And who’s fault is it? Buffet (a billionaire) says his taxes should be higher. But 400 hillbillies think his taxes should be lower. Again I’ll ask, who do you think should be deciding economic policies? Republicans have no shortage of popular support across all income brackets. They run on a platform of tax breaks for the rich and they win. Buffet only gets one vote, the other top 399 only get one vote each. So who is voting against the death tax? Why are the bottom 125million voting against their self interest? Look at the data at the top of this thread. Consider that 40% of Americans don’t pay federal income tax. Then ask who is voting for these tax breaks? Why was it so hard for Obama to repeal the tax break for people making more than $250k? You can blame the rich all you want, but they don’t have the voting power you think they do. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-plutocracy-look-in-the-us/578976/76 "2011-04-22T02:42:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But if we had, socialism, now, you could get . . . errrmmm . . . free **prostitution!** 🙂 True but you’d have to wait in lines, and americans hate waiting lines. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-plutocracy-look-in-the-us/578976/77 "2011-04-22T12:41:30Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > And who’s fault is it? Buffet (a billionaire) says his taxes should be higher. But 400 hillbillies think his taxes should be lower. Again I’ll ask, who do you think should be deciding economic policies? Republicans have no shortage of popular support across all income brackets. They run on a platform of tax breaks for the rich and they win. Buffet only gets one vote, the other top 399 only get one vote each. So who is voting against the death tax? > > Why are the bottom 125million voting against their self interest? Look at the data at the top of this thread. Consider that 40% of Americans don’t pay federal income tax. Then ask who is voting for these tax breaks? Why was it so hard for Obama to repeal the tax break for people making more than $250k? You can blame the rich all you want, but they don’t have the voting power you think they do. Because the rich own the media and can use propaganda to convince these people into voting against their own best interests. I’m not even saying that as my belief. But that’s in the thread and you have not offered any rebuttal. I will say that people don’t naturally vote against their best interests when they know it is against their own best interests. Somebody has to convince them that either that it is in their own best interest, or that it’s the right thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-plutocracy-look-in-the-us/578976/78 "2011-04-22T13:37:39Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > True but you’d have to wait in lines, and americans hate waiting lines. [insert your own Hell’s Angels joke here] ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-plutocracy-look-in-the-us/578976/79 "2011-04-22T21:44:16Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Because the rich own the media and can use propaganda to convince these people into voting against their own best interests. I’m not even saying that as my belief. But that’s in the thread and you have not offered any rebuttal. You want a rebuttal to that? It’s absurd. What you’re saying is that the poorest 125million Americans are so stupid that the 400 richest Americans can easily dupe them into voting to lower taxes for the rich. Say that out loud and tell me if it make sense to you. Look at the breakdown in the first 3 posts. 10million people filed tax returns in the 0% income bracket, but barely 1million are in the 35% bracket. Yet some how, Republicans repealed the tax cuts for the wealthiest tax bracket. But it’s because the rich have so much power? They control the media? Do they force us to watch it? > [@BigT](#): > > I will say that people don’t naturally vote against their best interests when they know it is against their own best interests. Somebody has to convince them that either that it is in their own best interest, or that it’s the right thing to do. If a person is too stupid to know what’s in their own best interest, they get the government they deserve. If they’re so concerned about abortion and gay marriage that they close their to all the other crap going on then who is to blame? Personally, blaming the rich is a cop out. Chastising BofA for high fees is pointless in an country full of alternative banking solutions. If a person is stupid enough to pay those fees they deserve to lose their money to someone smarter. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-plutocracy-look-in-the-us/578976/80 "2011-04-23T04:48:05Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Damn then for making us use their bank! > > Oh wait, I don’t. Damn this free market with all it’s choice! > > Did you not realize there are a lot of other banks to choose from? I can’t remember the last time I paid an ATM fee. All banks are paying practically nothing for deposits. They are jacking up fees for everything. Strange but there are no laws of fees. they can charge whatever they want. But strange as it seems. the fees are all about the same. Perhaps you can get a lot more for your deposits. if so please inform us because the rate is the same bank to bank. If you have managed to escape ATM fees, then I guess they can not be a problem for anybody else. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-plutocracy-look-in-the-us/578976.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-plutocracy-look-in-the-us/578976.md?page=5)