# What would Prince Ernst August of Hanover have to do to reclaim the title of Duke of Cumberland? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 7, 2017, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-prince-ernst-august-of-hanover-have-to-do-to-reclaim-the-title-of-duke-of-cumberland/779232 "2017-02-07T15:35:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-prince-ernst-august-of-hanover-have-to-do-to-reclaim-the-title-of-duke-of-cumberland/779232/21 "2017-02-08T21:17:10Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > Because that’s what the Deprivation of Titles Act says. Nope > [@](#): > > It shall be lawful for the successor of any peer whose name has been so removed, to present a petition to His Majesty praying to have the peerage restored and his name placed on the Peerage Roll; and His Majesty **may** refer such petition to a committee of the Privy Council constituted as aforesaid So it sounds like the monarch can, on their own discretion, restore the title. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-prince-ernst-august-of-hanover-have-to-do-to-reclaim-the-title-of-duke-of-cumberland/779232/22 "2017-02-08T21:31:28Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So it sounds like the monarch can, on their own discretion, restore the title. I don’t think so. The full text of section 2 reads: > [@](#): > > It shall be lawful for the successor of any peer whose name has been so removed, to present a petition to His Majesty praying to have the peerage restored and his name placed on the Peerage Roll; and His Majesty may refer such petition to a committee of the Privy Council constituted as aforesaid; and should the committee be satisfied that such person has incurred no disability under this Act, and is well affected to His Majesty’s Person and Government, His Majesty may thereupon direct that the peerage be restored and the name of the petitioner be placed on the Peerage Roll; whereupon all rights and privileges of the holder of the peerage shall revive and be in force as if the name of the peer had never been removed from the Roll. Note that wording: “should the committee be satisfied,” then and only then may His Majesty direct the peerage be restored. If the committee isn’t satisfied (and if it never considers the matter, it can’t be satisfied), there’s no other provision of the law allowing the monarch to overturn the decision of Parliament to accept the original list and have them stricken from the Peerage Roll. It sounds like if the monarch isn’t satisfied or doesn’t want to refer the matter to committee in the first place, then the monarch is not obligated to do so, but in that case, the petition is deemed rejected. OTOH, nothing would prevent the monarch from giving a NEW peerage title to the current Cumberland and Albany peers. If Prince Ernst August’s son and heir (also, confusingly, named Ernst August, and allegedly legally named Ernst August Prinz von Hannover Herzog zu Braunschweig und Lüneburg Königlicher Prinz von Großbritannien und Irland) married one of the York sisters, for example, the queen could make him Earl of Somewhere or Duke of That Place quite independent of any claim to the Dukedom of Cumberland. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-prince-ernst-august-of-hanover-have-to-do-to-reclaim-the-title-of-duke-of-cumberland/779232/23 "2017-02-08T23:49:48Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > If Prince Ernst August’s son and heir (also, confusingly, named Ernst August, … _Everyone_ in that family seems to be Ernst August (or some variant), except for one: [Ernest Augustus, 1st Duke of Cumberland and King of Hanover (1771 - 1851)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Augustus,_King_of_Hanover) [George V, 2nd Duke of Cumberland and King of Hanover (1819 - 1878)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_V_of_Hanover) (the exception) [Ernest Augustus, 3rd Duke of Cumberland (1845 - 1923)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Ernest_Augustus,_3rd_Duke_of_Cumberland_and_Teviotdale) [Ernest Augustus, Duke of Brunswick (1887 - 1953)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Augustus,_Duke_of_Brunswick) [Ernest Augustus (1914–1987)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Ernest_Augustus_of_Hanover_(1914%E2%80%931987)) [Ernst August of Hanover (born 1954)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Ernst_August_of_Hanover_(born_1954)) ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-prince-ernst-august-of-hanover-have-to-do-to-reclaim-the-title-of-duke-of-cumberland/779232/24 "2017-02-09T00:03:48Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > _Everyone_ in that family seems to be Ernst August (or some variant), except for one: Most of the oldest sons, anyway; both the current head of the family and his son have younger brothers who are not named Ernst August. All of the Ernst Augusts of Hanover are nowhere near as confusing as all of the Heinrich Reusses. (Every male member of the Princely House of Reuss has been named Heinrich for eight centuries; the current head of the house is Prince Heinrich XIV, son of Heinrich IV and father of Heinrich XXIX and Heinrich V [they restart the numbering every century]). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-prince-ernst-august-of-hanover-have-to-do-to-reclaim-the-title-of-duke-of-cumberland/779232/25 "2017-02-09T05:55:55Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > He writes to the Queen and asks, she asks the Prime Minister, who arranges for the appropriate committee of Privy Councilors (senior and retired senior politicians of all parties) to consider the question and advise… That’s about what I thought. Especially given the likely Brexit fallout, it might be a politically-appealing gesture to Germany. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > It does, but Her Majesty exercises the Royal prerogative on the advice of her ministers. I thought the Queen may grant titles to members of the Royal Family at her own discretion. I don’t recall reading that the PM was consulted before Prince William was created Duke of Cambridge at the time of his wedding, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-prince-ernst-august-of-hanover-have-to-do-to-reclaim-the-title-of-duke-of-cumberland/779232/26 "2017-02-09T06:11:04Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > That’s about what I thought. Especially given the likely Brexit fallout, it might be a politically-appealing gesture to Germany. I think the Germans would be baffled at the suggestion that they should give a damn about this, frankly. > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I thought the Queen may grant titles to members of the Royal Family at her own discretion. I don’t recall reading that the PM was consulted before Prince William was created Duke of Cambridge at the time of his wedding, for instance. Couple of problems here. “Royal Family” is a circumscribed class; more remote than the grandchild of a British monarch, and you’re generally not it it. Ernst Augustus of Hanover is not in it. Plus, we’re not talking here about granting a title, but reviving one; there’s no established convention that the Queen may revive deprived titles for members of the Royal Family (not least because the situation has never arisen; not even Ernst Augustus’s grandfather, who was deprived of the title, was considered to be part of the British Royal Family at the time). Finally, established convention always gives way to Act of Parliament, and there’s an Act dealing specifically with this case which prescribes what the Queen may do. She may revive the deprived title if she has referred a petition for revival to a Committee of the Privy Council, and that Committee is satisfied as to certain matters. It follows that, if these things haven’t happened, she can’t revive the title (and couldn’t do so even if Ernst Augustus were a member of the Royal Family). ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-prince-ernst-august-of-hanover-have-to-do-to-reclaim-the-title-of-duke-of-cumberland/779232/27 "2017-02-09T07:54:15Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > That’s about what I thought. Especially given the likely Brexit fallout, it might be a politically-appealing gesture to Germany. Except that it would have the Brexiteers frothing at the mouth, which might be an entertaining prospect, but the prospect of HM’s being embroiled in that particular controversy would rule it out. Neither HM or PM want to go there. > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > thought the Queen may grant titles to members of the Royal Family at her own discretion. I don’t recall reading that the PM was consulted before Prince William was created Duke of Cambridge at the time of his wedding, for instance. But that was expected anyway as customary practice within the family business. What’s being hypothesised here is something unprecedented (always hazardous in this context) that would dust off century-old legislation and bring all sorts of crusty old prejudices out of the woodwork. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-prince-ernst-august-of-hanover-have-to-do-to-reclaim-the-title-of-duke-of-cumberland/779232/28 "2017-02-09T15:26:35Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > It does, but Her Majesty exercises the Royal prerogative on the advice of her ministers. > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > …I thought the Queen may grant titles to members of the Royal Family at her own discretion. I don’t recall reading that the PM was consulted before Prince William was created Duke of Cambridge at the time of his wedding, for instance. In this paragraph, I was not addressing the Prince Ernst August question, but only that of titles being given by the Queen to those within the Royal Family. Any cites to the effect that HM had to consult the PM prior to making Andrew Duke of York, for instance, or William Duke of Cambridge, on their wedding days? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-prince-ernst-august-of-hanover-have-to-do-to-reclaim-the-title-of-duke-of-cumberland/779232.md?page=1)