# What would REALLY happen if the 2nd Amendment were repealed? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 28, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-really-happen-if-the-2nd-amendment-were-repealed/569305 "2011-01-28T16:17:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-really-happen-if-the-2nd-amendment-were-repealed/569305/81 "2011-01-28T22:49:17Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > Well, never mind then. I’ll just stay out of any attempt at discussion of the OP. Why? You did a good job of outlining your view. My view is that America has long passed the point where “revolution” is in the air. We’re lazy and complacent, and so long as we have our food, consumer luxuries, and entertainment - our bread and circuses, if you will - then “change” will not really come about. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-really-happen-if-the-2nd-amendment-were-repealed/569305/82 "2011-01-28T23:00:09Z")
I predict that I become rich driving down to the border and selling guns to Americans, much like some other Montrealers who sold them booze during Prohibition. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-really-happen-if-the-2nd-amendment-were-repealed/569305/83 "2011-01-28T23:22:18Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Coming from a Moderator - that is pretty asshole comment to make in Great Debates. It’s not threadshitting [when czarcasm does it](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13402729&postcount=69). ---
**Author:** ![FREQ\_FORCE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/fbc32d/32.png) [@FREQ\_FORCE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FREQ_FORCE)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-really-happen-if-the-2nd-amendment-were-repealed/569305/84 "2011-01-28T23:28:01Z")
People often need a reality check regarding delusions of partisan glory. We grew up with a generation who seems to believe that _Red Dawn_ was a documentary, but let’s be honest here. I would argue that the American population, by and large, is relatively weak, fragmented and conditioned to a lifestyle that is anything but conducive to prolonged guerilla action. I believe that we would turn on each other faster than we would unite against the military mite of the federal government. Fledgling revolutions would be stamped out fairly quickly. On one side you would have laser-guided weaponry, satellite reconnaissance, tactical assault equipment, armored vehicles, etc. The other side would have some small arms and an ideology. Game over. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-really-happen-if-the-2nd-amendment-were-repealed/569305/85 "2011-01-28T23:32:43Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > It’s not threadshitting [when czarcasm does it](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13402729&postcount=69). Er, nor is it threadshitting when there was a clear, reasonable, and rational explanation that differed from someone’s initial misinterpretation. To those predicting an uproar or revolution–wouldn’t just a bit of planning go a long way around that? Why would they focus on kicking in granny’s and Jenkin’s doors first? Why not focus on crime-related aspects of guns. Let fines and property confiscations do their work. Let Una’s (IMHO correct) view let things settle? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-really-happen-if-the-2nd-amendment-were-repealed/569305/86 "2011-01-28T23:35:20Z")
> [@FREQ\_FORCE](#): > > Fledgling revolutions would be stamped out fairly quickly. On one side you would have laser-guided weaponry, satellite reconnaissance, tactical assault equipment, armored vehicles, etc. The other side would have some small arms and an ideology. > > Game over. Not quite. The U.S. has a volunteer military, after all, and we can plausibly expect mass desertions and thefts of materiel, so _both_ sides end up with serious firepower, albeit it is still a gross mismatch. To make this work, you’d have to spend several years tightening up the military, discharging anyone who might hesitate at shooting American civilians, heavily indoctrinating recruits to hold the civilian population in contempt, installing an officer corps of ruthless individuals interested in power… I supose you could tell them you’re seizing guns as an emergency measure to maintain the long-term health of the constitution, or something. That’ll work for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-really-happen-if-the-2nd-amendment-were-repealed/569305/87 "2011-01-29T00:17:53Z")
An outsider perspective; how many civilian firearms are there in the U.S.? [This](http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/gunsinamerica#Hepburn) cites about 283 million, give or take - impossible to know for sure. Federal authorities are never going to have the manpower to track down even those guns you can be reasonably sure exists. Combined with losses from all the ‘cold, dead hands’ types - which do exist - I imagine a lot of secessionist types would see this as their moment, in a mid-90s kind of way, you negate any point in doing it. The issue of gun control in the U.S. is a purely manufactured issue; you don’t have a hope in hell of infringing on that level of ownership and the zeal behind it. Here in the U.K. we pretty much banned handguns overnight after some sick paedo son of a bitch walked into a primary school in Scotland with legally owned handguns and started shooting. The legislation was largely passed without a fuss, and supported by most of the public. Comparisons with other countries are to a great extent false analogies, however, for a variety of reasons - mainly cultural and political. The 2nd Amendment had no real equivalent in British law, there’s no powerful gun lobby or NRA. If you get rid of the 2nd Amendment, will the rest be far behind? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-really-happen-if-the-2nd-amendment-were-repealed/569305/88 "2011-01-29T00:35:21Z")
Of course now I’m reminded of one of my favourite bits from _Hot Fuzz_, and a joke I didn’t even notice the first two times I watched it. Police Sergeant Angel has been involuntarily transferred from London to a posting out in the country, where he encounters hostility from some of the local police force, including the detectives: DS Andy Wainwright: You _do_ know there are more guns in the country than there are in the city. DS Andy Cartwright: Everyone and their mums is packin’ round here! Nicholas Angel: Like who? DS Andy Wainwright: Farmers. Nicholas Angel: Who else? DS Andy Cartwright: Farmers’ mums. Later on, Angel rides into town to deal with the bad guys, first encountering James Reaper (owner of Brannigan Farm) who yells out “MOMMMMM!” prompting his elderly mother to appear with a double-barrel shotgun and start blasting. ---
**Author:** ![kevlaw](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kevlaw/32/2281_2.png) [@kevlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevlaw)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-really-happen-if-the-2nd-amendment-were-repealed/569305/89 "2011-01-29T01:36:30Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Why? You did a good job of outlining your view. My view is that America has long passed the point where “revolution” is in the air. We’re lazy and complacent, and so long as we have our food, consumer luxuries, and entertainment - our bread and circuses, if you will - then “change” will not really come about. Yeah- i enjoyed Both Tristan’s post and Una’s updated version. Both somewhat plausible IMO but i’d probably put my money on Una’s scenario. FWIW i think apathy would kick in long before the national guard was called out. No one would try to confiscate anyone’s guns. It’d become 3% more difficult to get a gun, a tiny percentage of people would turn theirs in voluntarily. Life would continue much the same as it is now and in about 60 years, the old timers would reminisce about how much better it was when we all had guns. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-really-happen-if-the-2nd-amendment-were-repealed/569305/90 "2011-01-29T01:45:57Z")
What do you mean by “3% more difficult to get a gun”? I think it would be a hell of a lot more difficult than that. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-really-happen-if-the-2nd-amendment-were-repealed/569305/91 "2011-01-29T07:10:05Z")
What would REALLY happen if the Second Amendment was repealed? In my opinion, not too much except for a lot more shouting. The repeal of the Second Amendment wouldn’t ban firearms - it would just make a ban theoretically possible. And as this thread demonstrates, gun ownership is a button issue for a lot of people. The NRA would still be around and it would still be voting - probably more so with the stakes being higher. Would a few hundred congressmen get elected on a platform of banning and confiscating firearms? Obviously not. You’d probably have a couple of dozen members who would be calling for such a general ban and they’d never get it. Same thing with the states. I doubt any state would enact a general ban. People need to remember there’s a lot of people in both parties who support gun ownership rights - it’s not a left/right Democrat/Republican issue. So what you’d probably end up getting in a handful of cities and towns that might ban firearms. And you’d probably see more restrictions on a broader level. What you wouldn’t see is Armageddon. There’d be no armies of militiamen fighting in the streets because the Berkley city council decided to ban handguns or because Massachusetts enacted a ninety-day waiting period law. Gun owners for the most part would think laws like that were stupid but they wouldn’t have any effect on most gun owners. The consensus would be “If those idiots are dumb enough to disarm themselves, let them get killed by criminals. Fuck them.” ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-really-happen-if-the-2nd-amendment-were-repealed/569305/92 "2011-01-29T09:08:52Z")
I think you’d see what happened in Canada - civil disobedience. When universal gun registration was passed, a significant number of gun owners simply refused to register them. Only about 75% of gun owners registered their guns before the deadline. I’m guessing that in the U.S., people would simply refuse to turn in their guns. Since they are largely unregistered, the government has no way of knowing who has guns and who doesn’t. That makes the law virtually unenforceable unless you’re planning on doing house-to-house gun sweeps. Good luck with that. There would be a thriving black market, because guns last forever and there are over 200 million of them in the U.S. As the price rises due to demand, it will cause a lot of gun owners to sell. There will be plenty of supply. And of course there will be guns manufactured underground - they’re being manufactured already. ‘Zip’ guns and Saturday Night Specials have been around for a long time. Manufacturing these things isn’t as hard as it used to be. CNC machines, flo-jet cutters, and other small machines make it possible to run a small assembly line with just a handful of people. But even larger manufacturing is possible. If a gun costs $200 to make and sells for $2000, I guarantee there will be a lot of gun makers. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-really-happen-if-the-2nd-amendment-were-repealed/569305/93 "2011-01-29T10:03:21Z")
As far as the people who say they’ll have a “boat accident” and “lose” all their guns, so what? If the guns are hidden away that’s almost as good as melting them down. Hidden guns aren’t likely to be accessible to be pulled out and used stupidly, and will be hard for burglars to find which will limit their impact on the black market. The analogy between banning drugs/alcohol and banning guns is flawed because the motives are different. Bans against intoxicants are mostly based on the idea that they are immoral. Bans on guns are mostly motivated by the fear of the guns being used. I don’t much care if you hide in your hidden armory caressing your guns (while muttering “_my precious_” perhaps); if they are hidden and hard to access then the guns are unlikely to be used which accomplishes the important goal of such a law. As opposed to drugs, where if someone sneaks into their stash and drinks or shoots up the law has failed. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-really-happen-if-the-2nd-amendment-were-repealed/569305/94 "2011-01-29T16:54:16Z")
1. Those of you who are looking at the the markets in NW Pakistan (more accurately Darra Adam Khel) need a reality check. Those cheap knock off of foreign weapons are so bloody dangerous to the firer (and much safer for the target incidentally) are not going to be the basis of a black market. Even today with a gun culture more deeply entrenched and wide in scope then any place in the US and with a crap load of black market guns, most of these are not from DAK but either local factory manufactured or foreign made. Those guys use film rolls to make gunpowder ferchrrissakes. 2. I have to say this, if you think that some how your little pistol is gping to be much help when the “government” comes calling means that you are out of your mind. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-really-happen-if-the-2nd-amendment-were-repealed/569305/95 "2011-01-29T16:57:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Those guys use film rolls to make gunpowder ferchrrissakes. I doubt it. Nitrate film hasn’t been used since the early 1950’s. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-really-happen-if-the-2nd-amendment-were-repealed/569305/96 "2011-01-29T16:59:51Z")
That place is in the 1550’s. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-really-happen-if-the-2nd-amendment-were-repealed/569305/97 "2011-01-29T17:04:15Z")
You’re talking out your ass by repeating something you half-remember reading somewhere. At one time, very long ago, it was possible to make propellant from nitrate-base film. Film manufacturers switched to safer bases long, long ago. You were correct enough about the locally made guns being generally unsafe. Just let this one go. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-really-happen-if-the-2nd-amendment-were-repealed/569305/98 "2011-01-29T17:12:31Z")
Not half remembered. Witnessed. You still have spools of nitrate based filsm being sold there (thats where grand ma old films end up). It is true that most gunpowder is not made from film rolls but there was and still is a market for it. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-really-happen-if-the-2nd-amendment-were-repealed/569305/99 "2011-01-29T17:17:47Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Not half remembered. Witnessed. You still have spools of nitrate based filsm being sold there (thats where grand ma old films end up). It is true that most gunpowder is not made from film rolls but there was and still is a market for it. Dude, unless nitrate-base film is carefully stored at low temperatures, it chemically degrades. One of the things formed by the degradation is nitric acid. You end up with a corroded film cannister filled with dust or goo, either of which is a fire hazard. Grandma’s old film, if it hasn’t disintegrated, isn’t making its way across the world so these primitive screwheads can make propellant out of it. I call bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-really-happen-if-the-2nd-amendment-were-repealed/569305/100 "2011-01-29T17:24:23Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > We do not need to hijack this thread (start another or read up on one of the few million already done on the topic here) but it needs to be said there is honest and legitimate contention about what the constitution is saying in the 2nd Amendment (Hint: has to do with “militia”). > > To hand wave away anyone who wants gun control as willfully flouting the constitution is just wrong. “Hand waving” the other side seemed to work okay for your side for the 70-80 years since _Miller_. How’s that shoe fitting you now that it’s on your foot? Your “honest and legitimate contention” exists in the minds of the graduates of a handful of liberal universities (albeit prestigious ones) on the east and west coasts, and a few northern cities like Chicago. > [@silenus](#): > > _Vermont_? Not hardly. > > Civil war would be the least of it. Good luck magically turning _every single_ government employee into a jack-booted thug, because that is how many you would need to even begin to enforce such a confiscation. I daresay a large percentage of the Feds would be on the side of the gun owners, and millions of weapons would be “overlooked” during the raids. > [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > People who think that LEOs and military are going to obey orders to confiscate everyone’s guns _don’t know any LEOs and military._ Do you have any idea how many of these people are themselves hardcore gun enthusiasts and firm believers in the most right-wing interpretation of the 2nd Amendment? > > If an administration were going to confiscate America’s guns, they would have to recruit a whole new army of people who agree with their ideology. I don’t know where in the hell they would get these people from… Agreed; many government arms rooms (law enforcement and military) might coincidentally empty out overnight and their contents disappear, and there might be a kind of “revolving door” of guns taken _from_ people willing to give them up, and then mysteriously and clandestinely handed over to groups (sure to form) willing to _fight_. Classic insurgent scenario where a portion of the government is sympathetic to the insurgents. > [@Lemur866](#): > > And even in places that want to ban guns, they’re talking about handguns. Even ultra-extreme-hyper-liberal places like New York :rolleyes: aren’t interesting in banning hunting rifles and shotguns. > > And regional or statewide gun bans are pretty much unenforceable, because we don’t have customs stations when you cross state borders. And the hunting rifles are, in the end, the most dangerous firearm out there in terms of lethality, range, precision (assuming proper sighting) and accuracy (assuming marginally competent rifle shooter). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-really-happen-if-the-2nd-amendment-were-repealed/569305.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-really-happen-if-the-2nd-amendment-were-repealed/569305.md?page=6)