# What would Repubs do if Israel decided to fight climate change? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 30, 2015, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-repubs-do-if-israel-decided-to-fight-climate-change/718858 "2015-04-30T00:20:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-repubs-do-if-israel-decided-to-fight-climate-change/718858/41 "2015-05-01T19:27:34Z")
DrDeth: > [@](#): > > Hilarious! But it’s pretty impossible to rebuild the Temple on Temple Mount, no? Why not Mt Shiloh? Or someplace right outside the City? Would not be religiously permissible. Once the permanent spot for the Altar was designated (in the days of King David), it became forbidden to offer sacrifices anywhere else - specifically, in the exact spot where that altar was. Even if an altar were built just a few feet away from the original, proper spot, sacrifices there would not be permitted by Jewish law. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-repubs-do-if-israel-decided-to-fight-climate-change/718858/42 "2015-05-01T21:22:49Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > No-one doubts that some Evangelicals belive in millenialist notions concerning Israel. What I doubt, is the emphasis put on this. > > As your own survey reports, this is a belief confined mostly to Evangelicals, who are not a majority of the population: > > … > > **The notion that a view held by a “majority” of Evangelicals explains the widespread (and bi-partisan) support of Israel in America simply lacks reality.** In fact, both parties support Israel (despite the recient and very personal fracas between Obama and Bibi) and for the same reason - support for Israel is strong in the American public generally. > > It’s a rhetorical tactic: ‘people support Israel because they are crazy fundies’, rather than ‘a certain percentage of crazy fundies support Israel’. > > It is no doubt comforting to think of one’s opponents as, basically, motivated by nutso motives, but it is a bad and self-defeating idea to distory reality in this manner. Okay. Nice strawman. Are you going to make any arguments against what I claimed? I never said millenialism was the exclusive reason behind Republican support for Israel (let alone bi-partisan support.) Simply that it is for a sizable minority in the party. Probably enough so that if there were no secular reasons for it, the party would still support Israel. But it sounds like you won’t be convinced that simply discussing the existence of that branch of the party isn’t some elaborate rhetorical gambit to discredit the entire party, so I guess we’ll have to disagree. > [@Malthus](#): > > Easily disproved nonsense. Bin Laden was quite explicit in what he viewed as America’s worst “offence” - and it was its alleged “occupation” of … Saudi Arabia! > > [http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/military-july-dec96-fatwa\_1996/](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/military-july-dec96-fatwa_1996/) > > In his “Letter to America”, support for Israel was just _one_ of the _many_ “offences” Bin Laden felt that America was guilty of. Support for existing Arab nations, whose continued existance prevents the establishment of Sharia-law states, is of equal (if not more) importance: > > [Removed: document | Information | The Guardian](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver) > > In short, for America to have avoided his wrath, it would have to stop supporting Arab nations (as well as Israel) - and the worst ‘offence’ clearly was supporting Saudi Arabia (where, as you may recall, Bin Laden is from, as well as most of the 9/11 hijackers - so it only makes sense that he feels most sorely about that). > > Al of this is well known and uncontroversial. The notion that the US troubles with the region all stem from Israel is an absurdity not supported by facts - once again, it is a self-serving distortion, based on a kernel only of truth (Bin Laden, like most Islamicists, indeed hates Israel). Really? His fatwa against the “Zionist-Crusader Army” is just sort of ancillary to the US-Israeli alliance? Certainly Saudi collaboration with that alliance was his immediate complaint, but without the alliance existing in the first place that complaint doesn’t exist. Or at least it doesn’t resonate as much with the rest of the Islamic world. There’s a reason why in the wording of the fatwa every time he mentions the US he takes pains to link it with Israel. (But, anyways, that was just throwaway line in one of my earlier posts and I’m not really interested in arguing it here.) ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-repubs-do-if-israel-decided-to-fight-climate-change/718858/43 "2015-05-01T22:02:42Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > Okay. Nice strawman. Are you going to make any arguments against what I claimed? I never said millenialism was the exclusive reason behind Republican support for Israel (let alone bi-partisan support.) Simply that it is for a sizable minority in the party. Probably enough so that if there were no secular reasons for it, the party would still support Israel. > > But it sounds like you won’t be convinced that simply discussing the existence of that branch of the party isn’t some elaborate rhetorical gambit to discredit the entire party, so I guess we’ll have to disagree. I care nothing for the Repulican party. I simply don’t believe in the lazy - and often-repeated - notion that its support for Israel is simply a function of fundie millenialism. No proof of this assertion is ever forthcoming, and it is on its face absurd - as support for Israel in the US transcends party and religious lines. It is not necessary to resort to some elaborate conspiracy involving the hijacking of a political party by crazy millenialists to explain a phenominon that is adequately explained much more simply - namely, that support for Israel is _popular_. > [@](#): > > Really? His fatwa against the “Zionist-Crusader Army” is just sort of ancillary to the US-Israeli alliance? Certainly Saudi collaboration with that alliance was his immediate complaint, but without the alliance existing in the first place that complaint doesn’t exist. Or at least it doesn’t resonate as much with the rest of the Islamic world. There’s a reason why in the wording of the fatwa every time he mentions the US he takes pains to link it with Israel. > > (But, anyways, that was just throwaway line in one of my earlier posts and I’m not really interested in arguing it here.) Really? If all the US did was support the Saudis - who, as Bin Laden himself explains in the cites helpfully provided upthread, are allegedly busy repressing Muslims and selling their birthright for the trinkets and trash of the West - Bin Laden would be all hunky dory with that? That’s not what he claims. Why should I believe you, rather than him? Notice that, to him, the US are “crusaders”. It matters not if they support Israel - they will still be “crusaders”. There is literally nothing the US can do about that, other than, as Bin Laden himself suggests - convert to Islam. The actual demands of Bin Laden, in order of importance: > [@](#): > > (1) The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam. > … > (2) The second thing we call you to, is to stop your oppression, lies, immorality and debauchery that has spread among you. > … > (3) What we call you to thirdly is to take an honest stance with yourselves - and I doubt you will do so - to discover that you are a nation without principles or manners, and that the values and principles to you are something which you merely demand from others, not that which you yourself must adhere to. > > (4) We also advise you to stop supporting Israel, and to end your support of the Indians in Kashmir, the Russians against the Chechens and to also cease supporting the Manila Government against the Muslims in Southern Philippines. > > (5) We also advise you to pack your luggage and get out of our lands. We desire for your goodness, guidance, and righteousness, so do not force us to send you back as cargo in coffins. > > (6) Sixthly, we call upon you to end your support of the corrupt leaders in our countries. Do not interfere in our politics and method of education. Leave us alone, or else expect us in New York and Washington. > > (7) We also call you to deal with us and interact with us on the basis of mutual interests and benefits, rather than the policies of sub dual, theft and occupation, and not to continue your policy of supporting the Jews because this will result in more disasters for you. Please note how “support for Israel” is concern #4 - and how it is mixed in with support for _other_ non-Muslim governments: “We also advise you to stop supporting Israel, and to end your support of the Indians in Kashmir, the Russians against the Chechens and to also cease supporting the Manila Government against the Muslims in Southern Philippines.” [Emphasis added] This is hardly the screed of someone who cares only about Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2015, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-repubs-do-if-israel-decided-to-fight-climate-change/718858/44 "2015-05-01T23:41:03Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Every desalination plant in Israel was built by a private company and is not subsidized by Israeli taxpayers. Mekorot’s building a desalinization plant in Ashdod. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-repubs-do-if-israel-decided-to-fight-climate-change/718858.md?page=2)