# what would society be like if man was incapable of lying? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 5, 2009, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-society-be-like-if-man-was-incapable-of-lying/492047 "2009-04-05T11:52:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![cactus\_waltz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@cactus\_waltz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cactus_waltz)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-society-be-like-if-man-was-incapable-of-lying/492047/1 "2009-04-05T11:52:13Z")
I’ve been playing with the idea of how our society would be like if there was no such thing as a Lie. By lying, I mean stating something which you know is not true or that you yourself don’t believe in. Some people concider hiding information to be lying, but I concider that to being dishonest which is similar but not quite the same thing. Hiding information would not be lying, but if you’re confronted about it you would have to be honest. In any case. Some things would clearly be different in our society. Here are a few I could think of on the top of my head: 1. People would trust each other a lot more, obviously. The only danger would be with people who really believe what they know is true, but who are actually mistaken. 2. The legal system would be much less complicated. 3. There would be lots of research in neuro-psychology as well as social-psychology and anthropology, in order to pattern human behaviour. When people cannot lie, they are much less free to manipulate which makes the basic socializing act more obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-society-be-like-if-man-was-incapable-of-lying/492047/2 "2009-04-05T12:16:58Z")
Society would undergo a complete and utter breakdown once people found out what other people \*really \*thought about them. Billions would die violently. And no, I’m not kidding. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-society-be-like-if-man-was-incapable-of-lying/492047/3 "2009-04-05T12:26:36Z")
There’s already been a lot of thought on this. I refer you to the “Three’s Company” episode where Jack decided to tell the truth at all times. Much hilarity ensued. ---
**Author:** ![cactus\_waltz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@cactus\_waltz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cactus_waltz)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-society-be-like-if-man-was-incapable-of-lying/492047/4 "2009-04-05T12:41:49Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Society would undergo a complete and utter breakdown once people found out what other people \*really \*thought about them. Billions would die violently. And no, I’m not kidding. Ah. Hm. Yes, I suppose so, if this change took place overnight in the world as we know it. I was thinking more of the basics of society, how and why things would be different. In other words, how much of our society takes into account lying as an important factor. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-society-be-like-if-man-was-incapable-of-lying/492047/5 "2009-04-05T12:44:10Z")
Fiction would never be invented. We’d probably have evolved to be more indifferent of other people’s opinions of ourselves. We’d probably tend more towards delusional behavior. The ability to deceive is so useful, that if we couldn’t knowingly deceive, we’d have a greater tendency to conveniently delude ourselves, so we believe the falsehood we are claiming. If some mutant or alien or AI came along that COULD lie, we’d be horribly gullible. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-society-be-like-if-man-was-incapable-of-lying/492047/6 "2009-04-05T13:04:16Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > If some mutant or alien or AI came along that COULD lie, we’d be horribly gullible. And we’d build spaceships to the exact specifications of their historical documents! ---
**Author:** ![Sanity\_Challenged](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de053/32.png) [@Sanity\_Challenged](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sanity_Challenged)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-society-be-like-if-man-was-incapable-of-lying/492047/7 "2009-04-05T13:11:16Z")
High school boys would NEVER get laid. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-society-be-like-if-man-was-incapable-of-lying/492047/8 "2009-04-05T13:21:23Z")
> [@Sanity\_Challenged](#): > > High school boys would NEVER get laid. More likely, women would evolve with lower standards. Or, in the opposite direction, both genders would tend to go into mad infatuation. I don’t think either gender really likes honesty from from the other; so I’d expect mutual hostility and indifference, or a strong tendency for people to become sufficiently overwrought that they lose all judgement, and speak untruths that they believe. ---
**Author:** ![cactus\_waltz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@cactus\_waltz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cactus_waltz)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-society-be-like-if-man-was-incapable-of-lying/492047/9 "2009-04-05T13:48:36Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > We’d probably have evolved to be more indifferent of other people’s opinions of ourselves. I believe so too. My hypothesis is that people would grow incredibly self-aware but also more accepting of themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-society-be-like-if-man-was-incapable-of-lying/492047/10 "2009-04-05T13:57:46Z")
> [@cactus\_waltz](#): > > I believe so too. My hypothesis is that people would grow incredibly self-aware but also more accepting of themselves. Or incredibly _ **un** _selfaware. You can still deceive people without lying, as long as you delude yourself into believing whatever you are spouting at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![wsbenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b38774/32.png) [@wsbenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wsbenge)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-society-be-like-if-man-was-incapable-of-lying/492047/11 "2009-04-05T14:14:46Z")
We wouldn’t care if people could lie, we would want to lies to be known. A natural lie detector. Society would make a vast improvement, but if something magically made that happen in our society now, the results would be civil war. Some lies are hard to take. Maybe not. People in the USA know their leaders lie, and care not. In fact, they prefer silver tongued orators to tell them what they want to hear. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-society-be-like-if-man-was-incapable-of-lying/492047/12 "2009-04-05T14:22:33Z")
If we couldn’t lie, we wouldn’t be human beings. We’d be more like self aware ants or something. Storytelling and imagination are such a deep part of who we are that there would be no way to remove them without changing humanity into something unrecognizable. ---
**Author:** ![cactus\_waltz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@cactus\_waltz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cactus_waltz)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-society-be-like-if-man-was-incapable-of-lying/492047/13 "2009-04-05T16:20:02Z")
Storytelling and imagination is not lying, IMHO. When I read Lord of the Rings, I don’t think “Tolkien is lying to me, there has never been such a person as Gandalf”. Being able to visualize is very different from being dishonest, lying or misleading. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-society-be-like-if-man-was-incapable-of-lying/492047/14 "2009-04-05T17:00:54Z")
> [@cactus\_waltz](#): > > Storytelling and imagination is not lying, IMHO. I’d be curious what possible neurological distinction could be made between the two. I’d have to see something like MRI images of a person telling a lie and making up a story to be convinced there was a significant biological difference. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-society-be-like-if-man-was-incapable-of-lying/492047/15 "2009-04-05T17:01:47Z")
I think it would be far more amusing if people who knowingly lied would suffer immediate, evident, and excruciating pain. For example, imagine a salesperson who tells you what a bargain this particular item is. S/he gasps, turns purple, and falls writhing on the floor. Politics…well, politics would either be very different or not exist at all. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-society-be-like-if-man-was-incapable-of-lying/492047/16 "2009-04-05T17:02:19Z")
> [@cactus\_waltz](#): > > I’ve been playing with the idea of how our society would be like if there was no such thing as a Lie. By lying, I mean stating something which you know is not true or that you yourself don’t believe in. Some people concider hiding information to be lying, but I concider that to being dishonest which is similar but not quite the same thing. Hiding information would not be lying, but if you’re confronted about it you would have to be honest. I think you’d have something resembling Japanese society where social interactions rest upon a layer of mild deception managed by elaborate customs concerning face-saving and indirect communication. It would be a gross vice to call someone on a lie, a great virtue to seem trusting, and successful people would be those who know how to find the truth without seeming nosy. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-society-be-like-if-man-was-incapable-of-lying/492047/17 "2009-04-05T18:06:48Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Society would undergo a complete and utter breakdown once people found out what other people \*really \*thought about them. Billions would die violently. And no, I’m not kidding. Maybe I’m naive and lucky but I usually find something to like about every body, for example **Rand Rover** is surprising my lately and making me reconsider some opinions I had of him. However I also either tell people exactly what I think of them, or I say nothing. I usually opt for saying exactly what I think. I do use tact but I very seldom say something I don’t believe to be true. For the **OP** : Define lying? For example advertising is full of technically true facts arranged in such a way to make you draw false conclusions. Usually through ommitence of other relevant facts. Pretty sleazy. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-society-be-like-if-man-was-incapable-of-lying/492047/18 "2009-04-05T18:08:22Z")
I don’t lie. Sometimes I keep my opinions and thoughts to myself to make things easier, but even if I tried I’m not sure I would be successful at deception. For the most part I get along with everyone I know. I’m pretty stable psychologically, I have about as many friends that I spend about as much time with as most other people do with their friends, I don’t have major rivalries or conflicts with my co-workers, and my family is stable. Its hard for me to see the downside to my non-lying. ---
**Author:** ![Mojo\_Pin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mojo\_Pin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo_Pin)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-society-be-like-if-man-was-incapable-of-lying/492047/19 "2009-04-05T18:22:23Z")
Very very quiet. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-society-be-like-if-man-was-incapable-of-lying/492047/20 "2009-04-06T00:15:47Z")
> [@cactus\_waltz](#): > > Storytelling and imagination is not lying, IMHO. When I read Lord of the Rings, I don’t think “Tolkien is lying to me, there has never been such a person as Gandalf”. Being able to visualize is very different from being dishonest, lying or misleading. Fiction is **consensual** lying. It’s lying, but it’s not deception. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-society-be-like-if-man-was-incapable-of-lying/492047.md?page=2)