# What would stop me from becoming a successful lawyer? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 3, 2004, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-stop-me-from-becoming-a-successful-lawyer/253351 "2004-07-03T06:02:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-stop-me-from-becoming-a-successful-lawyer/253351/61 "2004-07-06T18:04:08Z")
A few more: > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **The Model Rules of Professional Conduct** > > RULE 3.1 MERITORIOUS CLAIMS AND CONTENTIONS > > A lawyer shall not bring or defend a proceeding, or assert or controvert an issue therein, unless there is a basis in law and fact for doing so that is not frivolous, which includes a good faith argument for an extension, modification or reversal of existing law. A lawyer for the defendant in a criminal proceeding, or the respondent in a proceeding that could result in incarceration, may nevertheless so defend the proceeding as to require that every element of the case be established. > > RULE 3.3 CANDOR TOWARD THE TRIBUNAL > > (a) A lawyer shall not knowingly: > > ``` > (1) make a false statement of fact or law to a tribunal or fail to correct a false statement of material fact or law previously made to the tribunal by the lawyer; > > (2) fail to disclose to the tribunal legal authority in the controlling jurisdiction known to the lawyer to be directly adverse to the position of the client and not disclosed by opposing counsel; or > > (3) offer evidence that the lawyer knows to be false. If a lawyer, the lawyer’s client, or a witness called by the lawyer, has offered material evidence and the lawyer comes to know of its falsity, the lawyer shall take reasonable remedial measures, including, if necessary, disclosure to the tribunal. A lawyer may refuse to offer evidence, other than the testimony of a defendant in a criminal matter, that the lawyer reasonably believes is false. > > ``` > > (b) A lawyer who represents a client in an adjudicative proceeding and who knows that a person intends to engage, is engaging or has engaged in criminal or fraudulent conduct related to the proceeding shall take reasonable remedial measures, including, if necessary, disclosure to the tribunal. > > © The duties stated in paragraphs (a) and (b) continue to the conclusion of the proceeding, and apply even if compliance requires disclosure of information otherwise protected by Rule 1.6. > > (d) In an ex parte proceeding, a lawyer shall inform the tribunal of all material facts known to the lawyer that will enable the tribunal to make an informed decision, whether or not the facts are adverse. [Link to Model Rules of Professional Conduct](http://www.abanet.org/cpr/mrpc/mrpc_toc.html) ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-stop-me-from-becoming-a-successful-lawyer/253351/62 "2004-07-06T19:44:18Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Well done, **Cunctator**. In one simple paragraph you’ve eloquently stated what I’ve been trying to say for pages. Thank you. You haven’t tried to say anything of the kind. **Cunctator** ’s post was about OUTCOME – that the correct legal outcome of a proceeding may not seem “right.” He said nothing about lying. You speak very poorly for your position. What exactly, is a lie? Your definition is extreme; apparently, a man is a liar if he simplifies a complex situation to a single sentence. If a client is accused of mopery, he is presumed innocent – he, in fact, IS innocent until a jury convicts him and all appeals are exhausted. His attorney will vigorously defend him, speak for him, and deal with an adversarial and error-prone press. Yes, he could go the extra mile and say “As far as I know, my client is innocent,” or “I’m sure that…,” or whatever mealymouthed offering you think would be more “honest,” but that would be (a) cut down to a few words by the press anyway; (b) shortchanging his client, who has an ABSOLUTE RIGHT to his attorney’s most vigorous defense; and © unnecessary, because “my client is innocent” is presumed to be TRUE. That’s why Geragos and other attorneys can say it and not be lying (true, there is no penalty for lying to the press as there is for lying to a client or a judge, or for knowingly presenting false testimony, but it’s very embarassing to get caught in such a lie, and it can come back and bite one’s ass in various ways). Refusing to volunteer information is NOT lying. Letting people delude themselves is NOT lying. Relying on technical definitions that lead to a different conclusion than common definitions is NOT lying. Making unwarranted assumptions is NOT lying. Drawing an unwarranted conclusion is NOT lying. Throwing yourself on the mercy of the court is, perhaps more “honest” than keeping your mouth shut, but you show me a single profession that doesn’t require keeping the lip zipped from time to time. ---
**Author:** ![Skully](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Skully](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skully)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-stop-me-from-becoming-a-successful-lawyer/253351/63 "2004-07-07T02:52:54Z")
I find it amusing that Starving Artist is trying to argue against lawyers that are viewing this thread for the purpose of giving advice on how to be a successful lawyer. Meaning most of the lawyers Starving Artist is arguing with might very well be successful. The perfect analogy of this situation escapes me at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-stop-me-from-becoming-a-successful-lawyer/253351/64 "2004-07-07T03:06:52Z")
No, **Starving Artist** isn’t trying to argue anything. He was trying to warn you that if you have a moral problem with prevarication, you probably won’t be happy or successful as a lawyer. Secondarily, he has been trying to explain (when asked) what he means and how he could come to the conclusions he has. He has not come onto this thread to piss off lawyers. He has not come onto this thread to debate. He offered his opinion (this is IMHO, right?). He has come to his opinion for the reasons he has stated, and for this reason he would not be happy or successful as an attorney. If you have no problem with it yourself, power to you…go forth and bill. If you do have a problem with it, you’ll probably do better elsewhere. End of story. P.S.: You are correct, **Nametag**. I reread **Cunctator** ’s statement and he was indeed talking about outcome. ---
**Author:** ![NicePete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@NicePete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NicePete)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-stop-me-from-becoming-a-successful-lawyer/253351/65 "2004-07-07T13:42:44Z")
I have acheived a reasonable degree of success and satisfaction during my career as an attorney. I do not lie and have never been called upon to lie in my professional career. Question: Are all salesmen/marketing people/PR people/advertising people liars? ---
**Author:** ![sperfur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9adbd/32.png) [@sperfur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sperfur)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2004, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-stop-me-from-becoming-a-successful-lawyer/253351/66 "2004-07-10T07:47:46Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > I’m sorry. I didn’t realize I was being asked if I would vote for a president who had been out of office for thirty years and who never, regardless of what you may think of him, said anything so stupid as “I didn’t have sex with her, she had sex with me.” > > Nope, silly me…I thought I was speaking of _current_ Republican politicians. My bad! I am not comprehending why its less bad for our current _republican_ president to lie about things that get lots of people killed, make up things like WMD and send my husband off to war to avenge his daddy than it is for our past president to lie about getting laid. But then again, I’m a tree-huggin’ hippie who thinks sex is a _good_ thing and people dying in a stupid war is a _bad_ thing, so what do I know. > [@iampunha](#): > > Brain … overload … > > Too many … > > ::struggles to maintain cranial integrity:: > > ::head blows up:: I feel like Humpty Dumpty after he fell off that wall. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-stop-me-from-becoming-a-successful-lawyer/253351.md?page=3)