# What would the first Terminator done if it had killed Sarah Conner? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 10, 2006, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-the-first-terminator-done-if-it-had-killed-sarah-conner/363837 "2006-07-10T07:33:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-the-first-terminator-done-if-it-had-killed-sarah-conner/363837/21 "2006-07-10T13:07:29Z")
> [@Skald the Rhymer](#): > > its mission was completed, so it would have had nothing to do, unless it was also programmed to make sure that Skynet came into being by making sure its human creators were not prevented from creating it. Thank you! You helped me realize what depresses me about the Terminator movies. If you think about it, Skynet is actually winning. Although none of the Terminators mange to accomplish their primary mission, the changes in the timeline they cause make Skynet more powerful than it was before. It’s an interesting progression throughout the movies. The Terminators just keep getting more and more powerful despite Sarah and John Connor’s every effort to stop them. In fact, the efforts to stop the Terminators are only making them more powerful. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-the-first-terminator-done-if-it-had-killed-sarah-conner/363837/22 "2006-07-10T13:21:56Z")
Monaco, baby! 🆒 \<-------- He’ll be back ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-the-first-terminator-done-if-it-had-killed-sarah-conner/363837/23 "2006-07-10T13:36:52Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > Now, why they would send two outdated Terminators instead of three T-X’s… No clue. Fanwanking, but if Skynet is in the middle of a war it’s going to calculate what it believes to be the optimal resource for the mission. It’s not going to over-commit what may be a rare or unique resource (the T-X) on a one-way mission when a lot less firepower will do. Absent Reece, the Arnold Terminator would have been more than sufficient to take out Sarah. With the historical record not changing following the first sending, it identified the appropriate resource and timeframe for the second attempt. Sending the T-X rather smacks of desperation though. > [@Priceguy](#): > > I wish they had never made the second movie. I wish they’d made the kid less cutesie-poo and 86ed all the “John teaches the cyborg all the radical new slang” crap, but other than that I can’t agree. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-the-first-terminator-done-if-it-had-killed-sarah-conner/363837/24 "2006-07-10T13:47:00Z")
I haven’t seen the first movie in ages and ages, but wouldn’t the first Terminator have not-existed if it had succeeded (in other words, if there were no rebel leader then there would be no Terminator created and sent back through time?) ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-the-first-terminator-done-if-it-had-killed-sarah-conner/363837/25 "2006-07-10T13:55:17Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > I haven’t seen the first movie in ages and ages, but wouldn’t the first Terminator have not-existed if it had succeeded (in other words, if there were no rebel leader then there would be no Terminator created and sent back through time?) According to the reality that movie presents us with, it couldn’t possibly succeed since it had already failed. I guess Skynet didn’t know how time functioned (how could it?) but decided to take the chance, given that it was defeated and had nothing to lose. If time functioned in another way, the situation could resolve itself in any number of ways. The Terminator could simply vanish and time plod along. The Terminator could keep existing; a temporal anomaly. The universe could implode. It could turn out that the Terminator failed after all; perhaps John’s mother was someone else unbeknownst to all involved. Time could split into two separate timelines, so that the Skynet that sent the Terminator back didn’t notice any difference, but in another timelines another Skynet reigned supreme with no pesky rebel leader to fight. And so on. ---
**Author:** ![Autumn\_Almanac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d26b3c/32.png) [@Autumn\_Almanac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autumn_Almanac)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-the-first-terminator-done-if-it-had-killed-sarah-conner/363837/26 "2006-07-10T17:04:29Z")
I love all three Terminator movies, but they’re all riddled with continuity errors really. Even the simplest things, like John Connor’s age. He was born in 1985, the second movie takes place in the early '90s. He should be less than 10 years old, but he’s a teenager. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-the-first-terminator-done-if-it-had-killed-sarah-conner/363837/27 "2006-07-10T17:23:48Z")
The terminator would have continued to kill women named “Sarah Connor” until it was destroyed or otherwise unable to do so. Remember what Reese says when the cops ask why the other two women were killed: > [@Reese (paraphrased)](#): > > Most of the records were destroyed in the war. They didn’t have a description or age. Just the name, and the city. The terminator was just being systematic The list of Sarahs was gotten from a phone book, which is hardly comprehensive. Reese had a picture of Sarah for reference, but there’s no way that the terminator would know for sure whether it had gotten the right Sarah, so it would have just continued trying to find and kill Sarah Connor. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-the-first-terminator-done-if-it-had-killed-sarah-conner/363837/28 "2006-07-10T17:38:17Z")
Personally, I think the third movie is what the second one should have been. In the first movie, you have an Ahnold terminator sent back to kill John’s mom, and a human sent back to stop him. In the second movie, you have an upgraded terminator with neat-o morphing abilities sent back to kill John, and an Ahnold terminator sent back to protect him. In the third movie, you have an upgraded terminator with neat-o morphing abilities sent back to kill John, and an Ahnold terminator sent back to protect him. See the redundancy there? But I think the third one did a much better job at it than the second, which was too focused on its (glitzy for the time, but now already dated) special effects. ---
**Author:** ![DonutSprinkle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@DonutSprinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonutSprinkle)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-the-first-terminator-done-if-it-had-killed-sarah-conner/363837/29 "2006-07-10T18:30:23Z")
**What would the first Terminator done if it had killed Sarah Conner?** He would have gone into politics, eventually becoming govenor of California. ---
**Author:** ![Autumn\_Almanac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d26b3c/32.png) [@Autumn\_Almanac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autumn_Almanac)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-the-first-terminator-done-if-it-had-killed-sarah-conner/363837/30 "2006-07-10T19:01:34Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > (glitzy for the time, but now already dated) special effects. Really? I’d say that _T2_, along with _Jurassic Park_, is one of the few early '90s CGI-fests that still holds up visually today. ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-the-first-terminator-done-if-it-had-killed-sarah-conner/363837/31 "2006-07-10T19:02:46Z")
I think it would have continued to kill other women named Sarah Conner as he found them. And maybe some of the other troublesome future humans’ parents. And then maybe more people, provided they didn’t work for Cyberdyne. Why should it stop killing, when it is in Skynet’s best interest to kill as many humans as possible? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-the-first-terminator-done-if-it-had-killed-sarah-conner/363837/32 "2006-07-10T19:11:33Z")
It would have gone on to do the voice of Jorgen von Strangl on “The Fairly OddParents” ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-the-first-terminator-done-if-it-had-killed-sarah-conner/363837/33 "2006-07-10T20:02:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > In the second movie, you have an upgraded terminator with neat-o morphing abilities sent back to kill John, and an Ahnold terminator sent back to protect him. In the third movie, you have an upgraded terminator with neat-o morphing abilities sent back to kill John, and an Ahnold terminator sent back to protect him. See the redundancy there? In the third one the T-X had the primary mission of wiping out Connor’s lieutenants. The primary mission was overridden by the chance encounter with Connor. > [@wm--](#): > > I’d say that T2, along with Jurassic Park, is one of the few early '90s CGI-fests that still holds up visually today. The scene where the morphin’-T is slammed face-first into a wall and “turns around” by morphing is still one of the coolest effects I’ve ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-the-first-terminator-done-if-it-had-killed-sarah-conner/363837/34 "2006-07-10T21:05:20Z")
Perhaps it’s not so much that the effects themselves were dated, as the way in which they were used. A lot of it had the feel of “Look, here’s this nifty new special effect we have, isn’t it cool?”. But the mark of a truly good use of a special effect is that you _don’t_ notice it. Consider the _Lord of the Rings_ movies, for instance: When people think of special effects in those movies, they think of things like the Balrog and the Eye of Sauron. But nearly every scene had Hobbits interacting with Big People, which required some significant effects, but _nobody notices_ because they were done so well. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-the-first-terminator-done-if-it-had-killed-sarah-conner/363837/35 "2006-07-10T21:33:08Z")
According to the novelization of the first movie, Skynet itself wasn’t sure what would happen if the first Terminator succeeded in it’s mission. The Terminator was programmed that if it did succeed it was to simply hole up somewhere safe, and after Judgement Day present itself to Skynet using an identifying code and inform the “other” Skynet of the alternate version of history. ---
**Author:** ![Autumn\_Almanac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d26b3c/32.png) [@Autumn\_Almanac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autumn_Almanac)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-the-first-terminator-done-if-it-had-killed-sarah-conner/363837/36 "2006-07-10T21:33:33Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Perhaps it’s not so much that the effects themselves were dated, as the way in which they were used. A lot of it had the feel of “Look, here’s this nifty new special effect we have, isn’t it cool?”. But the mark of a truly good use of a special effect is that you _don’t_ notice it. Good point. ---
**Author:** ![Scupper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Scupper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scupper)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-the-first-terminator-done-if-it-had-killed-sarah-conner/363837/37 "2006-07-10T21:47:03Z")
(Very slight hijack alert.) People, people. I can’t stand it when simple misunderstandings of the nature of these movies lead to accusations of “plot holes” or inconsistencies. [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=3702672&highlight=Terminator#post3702672) (again) is my analysis of why these movies are totally consistent. 😉 Anyway, I also had a few thoughts just now about the whole causal loop regarding John Connor’s existence. Though John Connor is the principal leader of the human resistance that defeats Skynet, it should be noted that Skynet’s _creation_ is not dependent on his existence (or non-existence). According to what we see in T3, Connor has no impact for or against the creation of Skynet – it is entirely accomplished by the T-X without other input. See below for why I believe this was Skynet’s “Safety Net” in case what happened in T2, um … happened. Why didn’t Skynet just send 3 T-Xs (or 3 T-1000s, or whatever) to kill Sarah Connor in the first place? The T-1000 clearly had emotions. It was sadistic (Torturing Sarah into calling John rather then just calling him with her voice) and vindictive (killing John’s dog unnecessarily). It is likely that the T-X was a replacement for the T-1000, which Skynet had found to be too difficult to control or properly program (in the novelization of T2 it is suggested that Skynet was actually afraid of the T-1000, because it was a little too close to human, emotionally). It was also a calculated response to the possibility of previous missions backfiring on Skynet (a la T2), in that it was designed to implement Skynet in software in the event that its hardware incarnation was somehow prevented from occurring. The T-X was Experimental and, thus, not a good candidate for taking out Connor himself, but rather given Connor’s destruction as a secondary priority, in the event that he and his mother somehow survived the attacks of the first two terminators. Here’s my understanding of the timeline (sorta): Various things happen. Sarah Connor has a son, who she names John. Skynet comes into existence. Skynet takes over, blows up world. Skynet is defeated by survivors. One of the survivors is John Connor, whose father was **not** Kyle Reese. Skynet sends T-800 #1 back to kill Sarah Connor. The T-1000 and T-X are sent back as failsafes to take a second try against Connor and also to destroy his lieutenants. The T-X is also loaded with a software incarnation of Skynet, with orders to introduce it to military hardware in the event that the Cyberdyne Skynet project is not online by the time she arrives. Kyle Reese goes back in time with photo of Sarah Connor with which he has fallen in love. It is never stated that he knows he will father John, nor that John knows that Kyle is his father. Kyle Reese fathers a child with Sarah Connor who she, naturally, names John. John Connor’s father is **now** Kyle Reese. We must assume that upbringing, rather than biology, makes him the person he is. Connor knows that Reese will die and that Skynet has sent multiple Terminators back to kill him. In the window of opportunity he has, he reprograms one T-800 and sends it back to the same time as the T-1000. He is in the midst of reprogramming a second when a rogue T-800 finds him and kills him. Kate Brewster reprograms the killer of John Connor (after disabling it somehow) and sends it back to keep herself and John from being killed in the nuclear war Skynet is going to have started. She knows exactly what the T-800 can and can’t do for them, and that she can’t change her own present, so she wisely decides not to try to change the past. The T-800 is only supposed to keep young Connor and Brewster alive, not stop the T-X, Skynet, or the War. As far as what would the T-800 do after killing Sarah Connor, I agree that it would continue killing Sarah Connors until Judgement Day. It would just increase its target area when it ran out of Sarah Connors in Greater L.A. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-the-first-terminator-done-if-it-had-killed-sarah-conner/363837/38 "2006-07-10T22:58:29Z")
I thought the original Terminator was called the “101 Series” ?? When Kyle was reminiscing to sarah about the future, he said that the early Terminators were “easy to spot, they had rubber skin. Then came the 101 Series…” and his memory flashback is to some Jean Claude looking guy wasting a bunch of people in a tunnel. Is Arnold’s Terminator yet a different model than the 101 Series? ---
**Author:** ![Scupper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Scupper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scupper)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-the-first-terminator-done-if-it-had-killed-sarah-conner/363837/39 "2006-07-10T23:26:18Z")
I believe the two Arnolds were a T-800/101 and a T-850/something. Actually, Wikipedia [sez…](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-800) > [@](#): > > The T-800 (full designation: Cyberdyne Systems Series 800-850 Model 101) is a cyborg, programmed to kill, in the fictional universe of the Terminator movies. ---
**Author:** ![Corporate\_Hippie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/65b543/32.png) [@Corporate\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corporate_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-the-first-terminator-done-if-it-had-killed-sarah-conner/363837/40 "2006-07-10T23:32:17Z")
Here’s a link to a pretty neat site where some guy deconstructs the in’s and out’s of lots of popular time-travel movies. I can’t quite get through one of the articles, much less wrap my head around them, but it sure _seems_ pretty comprehensive. Anyhoo, the Terminator series is on there: [Temporal Anomalies in Time Travel Movies](http://www.mjyoung.net/time/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-the-first-terminator-done-if-it-had-killed-sarah-conner/363837.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-the-first-terminator-done-if-it-had-killed-sarah-conner/363837.md?page=3)