# What would Tudor-era spoken English actually sound like? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 27, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-tudor-era-spoken-english-actually-sound-like/526700 "2010-01-27T23:52:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-tudor-era-spoken-english-actually-sound-like/526700/21 "2010-01-28T21:13:42Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Well, since there are NO voice recordings (that I know of) we do not and cannot know what Tudor English pronunciation was like. > So I guess we will have to wait for time travel, to be able to know what Tudor pronunciation was all about. Why, we can’t even be sure people had the ability to speak… And without video cameras, it’s unclear whether these creatures of the past even resembled our modern human form. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-tudor-era-spoken-english-actually-sound-like/526700/22 "2010-01-28T21:14:17Z")
> [@liberty3701](#): > > Further, the dialectal splits in American English reflect the splits that were already in play in England hundreds of years ago. So, when you say “Such-and-such is like English was spoken during Shakespeare,” you have to ask, “Whose English?” Yes. For example, William Shakespeare, who grew up in Warwickshire and did not go to university, almost certainly spoke with a different accent to Christopher Marlowe, who grew up in Kent and went to university at Cambridge. And their accents probably converged in adulthood on the educated London/Cambridge/Oxford accent compared with their contemporaries who stayed home in Stratford or Canterbury. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-tudor-era-spoken-english-actually-sound-like/526700/23 "2010-01-28T21:18:02Z")
The people who live on Ocracoke Island do have a British accent but I don’t know if it’s Tudor or not. I’ve heard it there myself. Sometimes they are called Hoy Toiders since that is how they say high tide. Ocracoke accent link [UGA](http://www.uga.edu/lsava/Topics/LanguageVariation/LanguageVariation.html) ---
**Author:** ![liberty3701](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@liberty3701](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liberty3701)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-tudor-era-spoken-english-actually-sound-like/526700/24 "2010-01-28T21:26:26Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > The people who live on Ocracoke Island do have a British accent No, they don’t. They have a particular accent that may sound kinda British, more so than other American accents, but Ocracoke English is as American as apple pie. Walt Wolfram and Natalie Schilling-Estes (along with lots of other people in the North Carolina Language and Life project at NC State) have studied this dialect thoroughly. It’s super interesting. [Here’s the NCLLP website on Ocracoke.](http://www.ncsu.edu/linguistics/ncllp/sites/ocracokeisland.php) It seems to be under construction and thus missing the “Papers” section. And [here’s there YouTube channel](http://www.youtube.com/user/NCLLP) where you can see/hear the accent. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-tudor-era-spoken-english-actually-sound-like/526700/25 "2010-01-28T21:33:30Z")
OK , technically it’s “British sounding” , but almost everyone here in NC just calls it British. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-tudor-era-spoken-english-actually-sound-like/526700/26 "2010-01-28T21:34:18Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > The people who live on Ocracoke Island do have a British accent but I don’t know if it’s Tudor or not. I’ve heard it there myself. Sometimes they are called Hoy Toiders since that is how they say high tide. > > Ocracoke accent link > > [UGA](http://www.uga.edu/lsava/Topics/LanguageVariation/LanguageVariation.html) not in those links they don’t. It’s something, but not “British.” ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-tudor-era-spoken-english-actually-sound-like/526700/27 "2010-01-28T21:34:18Z")
It doesn’t even “sound British” to me, for what it’s worth, though I suppose that’s necessarily a subjective judgement. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-tudor-era-spoken-english-actually-sound-like/526700/28 "2010-01-28T21:36:14Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > OK , technically it’s “British sounding” , but almost everyone here in NC just calls it British. cause it makes a better “did ya know,” but on a board dedeicated to fighting ignorance. Honeslty, that accent only sounds _kinda_ like “British” _some_ of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-tudor-era-spoken-english-actually-sound-like/526700/29 "2010-01-28T21:37:28Z")
From what I’ve read the Ocracoke accent is changing and may not be around much longer. It used to be difficult to get to the island but now you can take a ferry directly to it. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-tudor-era-spoken-english-actually-sound-like/526700/30 "2010-01-28T21:45:52Z")
Oddly, to my ears, anyway, the Ocracoke accent is closest to the accent I’ve heard from people who lived in the mountains of western NC–over 400 miles away! ---
**Author:** ![liberty3701](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@liberty3701](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liberty3701)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-tudor-era-spoken-english-actually-sound-like/526700/31 "2010-01-28T21:52:51Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > From what I’ve read the Ocracoke accent is changing and may not be around much longer. It used to be difficult to get to the island but now you can take a ferry directly to it. This you are 100% correct about. It’s an endangered dialect, another thing the NCLLP has been working on. And I’m sorry that I was short with you, **Bijou** , you just hit a pet peeve of mine! Plus, I just handed in my dissertation proposal and my nerves are a little shot. **Indistinguishable** , you’re making me blush. And, on preview, **Earl Snake-Hips Tucker** , there are some really cool parallels between Appalachian English and Ocracoke English. I’m impressed by your ear. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-tudor-era-spoken-english-actually-sound-like/526700/32 "2010-01-28T22:06:54Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > OK , technically it’s “British sounding” , but almost everyone here in NC just calls it British. Doesn’t sound remotely “British” to me. It sounds like a variant of Southern American English. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-tudor-era-spoken-english-actually-sound-like/526700/33 "2010-01-28T22:20:28Z")
I guess I’ll just have to tell everyone I know around here that people on a website said it’s not British sounding at all! And that they have been wrong all these years! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-tudor-era-spoken-english-actually-sound-like/526700/34 "2010-01-28T22:54:51Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > What will be interesting in the future will be whether movies slow down change, as people will always have access to spoken English from about 1930 onwards. (Sound recordings are a bit older, of course, but I think movies would have a greater influence than songs, etc., on records). I kind of wonder if this effect will be pronounced as many people seem to think. Sure, we have the recordings, and enough will be transcribed to new formats as they emerge that they’ll probably remain accessible for a good long time. But in order for them to have an impact on language, someone needs to _watch_ the things - and I’m not sure people will. I mean, how many people actually watch movies dating from the 1930s or 1940s? Sure, _Casablanca_ is a classic - what else do you watch? For myself, almost everything I watch dates from at least the 1960s, and mostly much more recent. Even films from the 1970s just have a sort of alien _feel_ to me - I find more recent films much more enjoyable. And I suspect a lot of people are the same way. For that matter - is it just me, or do people in really old movies seem to have slightly different accents from the standard-issue California/Generic American accent that’s seen as “unaccented” today? The actors in “Casablanca” seem to enunciate and pronounce their words somewhat differently than we do today. I don’t know, perhaps I’m mistaken - but I think we can already see slight shift from the language of 70 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![liberty3701](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@liberty3701](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liberty3701)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-tudor-era-spoken-english-actually-sound-like/526700/35 "2010-01-28T23:11:50Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > But in order for them to have an impact on language, someone needs to _watch_ the things - and I’m not sure people will. And, really, watching something isn’t enough to have much effect on the way we actually talk. Television and movies are having almost no impact\* on the way we speak now, and it’s doubtful that it will in the future. Besides, we’ll be able to recreate how we speak now in the future just like we do for Middle and Old English today. \*Contrary to popular belief, we are not all speaking more like each other because of TV. Regional dialects are not coming together; in fact, many are moving away from each other (see the Northern Cities Vowel Shift and the Southern Vowel Shift, to name one example). There are a few instances of media affecting people’s speech, but they mostly have to do with lexical items – children in Canada saying “zee” instead of “zed” because of Sesame Street – or a limited effect on pronunciation – Canadians switching from saying “taco” the British way to the American way because of Taco Bell commercials. (I just realized both of my examples are about Canadians; maybe they’re more susceptible to media influences than normal people. 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-tudor-era-spoken-english-actually-sound-like/526700/36 "2010-01-28T23:17:33Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > I guess I’ll just have to tell everyone I know around here that people on a website said it’s not British sounding at all! And that they have been wrong all these years! Are the people in your area experts on whether something “sounds British”, or somehow authoritative with respect to such judgements? (Perhaps we should ask some Brits if they feel it “sounds British”?). Otherwise, I’m not sure I see your point. Or do you mean there is some objective respect in which this accent is British rather than American? ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-tudor-era-spoken-english-actually-sound-like/526700/37 "2010-01-28T23:35:47Z")
I know that many people around here (like me) have actually been to Ocracoke and heard people there talk in person. As opposed to hearing 1 guy on a website talk. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-tudor-era-spoken-english-actually-sound-like/526700/38 "2010-01-28T23:49:42Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > I know that many people around here (like me) have actually been to Ocracoke and heard people there talk in person. As opposed to hearing 1 guy on a website talk. To begin with, it was more than one. Additionally, wasn’t it you who linked to that website? [checks] Yes. Yes it was. Look, they might all sound like Mary Poppins, but from what _you’ve_ posted, I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-tudor-era-spoken-english-actually-sound-like/526700/39 "2010-01-28T23:55:39Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > I know that many people around here (like me) have actually been to Ocracoke and heard people there talk in person. As opposed to hearing 1 guy on a website talk. I’m British - and more precisely for what you’re claiming, from rural England - and regardless of what the people in NC say, the one guy talking in “full brogue” doesn’t sound British to me whatsoever. I don’t know what it sounds like - it’s definitely unique - but really clearly it is not much like what is spoken anywhere here. I will give you the “high tide” pronunciation as being very similar to many rural, and especially West Country, accents in England, but the rest of what that one guy says - not at all. It sounds American to my ears. And none of the other residents interviewed have anything like his accent. If you had lots of English people going to the island and declaring it sounds like an English accent, then fair enough, but if the people judging it aren’t English (or at least British), then it’s not really a reasonable thing to insist on. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-tudor-era-spoken-english-actually-sound-like/526700/40 "2010-01-29T00:29:14Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > I guess I’ll just have to tell everyone I know around here that people on a website said it’s not British sounding at all! And that they have been wrong all these years! I’m British. I live in Britain, and have all my life. It sounds American to me. Feel free to tell everyone you know around you that. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-tudor-era-spoken-english-actually-sound-like/526700.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-tudor-era-spoken-english-actually-sound-like/526700.md?page=3)