# What would you call this hat that Basil Rathbone is wearing as Sherlock Holmes (not the deer-stalker) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies, fashion-clothing\ **Created:** [April 8, 2026, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-call-this-hat-that-basil-rathbone-is-wearing-as-sherlock-holmes-not-the-deer-stalker/1029132 "2026-04-08T23:10:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2026, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-call-this-hat-that-basil-rathbone-is-wearing-as-sherlock-holmes-not-the-deer-stalker/1029132/21 "2026-04-09T12:48:16Z")
According to Wikipedia: _The “sportsman’s deerstalker” is made with a [brim](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brim_(hat)) around the cap, narrow at the sides, but which may be elongated in front or back, omitting the separate double bills. The earflaps are also eliminated. Some types of this cap sport a hatband fashioned from the same material around the crown. The “flapless” version can be easily folded for convenient carrying._ [Deerstalker - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deerstalker) ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2026, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-call-this-hat-that-basil-rathbone-is-wearing-as-sherlock-holmes-not-the-deer-stalker/1029132/22 "2026-04-09T16:35:08Z")
If you wanna see him in the hat..the Lady in Green is on TCM at this very moment. The description of the hat is a “classic Trilby” ---
**Author:** ![Varl\_Hobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/91b2a8/32.png) [@Varl\_Hobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Varl_Hobe)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2026, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-call-this-hat-that-basil-rathbone-is-wearing-as-sherlock-holmes-not-the-deer-stalker/1029132/23 "2026-04-09T17:39:09Z")
I’d call it a neckbeard hat, but I assume that’s not what they’re really called. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2026, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-call-this-hat-that-basil-rathbone-is-wearing-as-sherlock-holmes-not-the-deer-stalker/1029132/24 "2026-04-09T18:02:52Z")
I don’t think they had _Tinder_ back then 😀 ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2026, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-call-this-hat-that-basil-rathbone-is-wearing-as-sherlock-holmes-not-the-deer-stalker/1029132/25 "2026-04-09T18:09:44Z")
Back when every Westernized man wore a hat every day, good bet the terminology was well-standardized and well-known to most people. After 75-90 years of cultural inattention to hats, language drift, and the WWW’s billion non-expert monkeys each with a global megaphone? Not so much. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-call-this-hat-that-basil-rathbone-is-wearing-as-sherlock-holmes-not-the-deer-stalker/1029132/26 "2026-04-10T11:16:25Z")
To an extent, you’re right. Most of the long coats that people call “trench coats” aren’t actually trench coats. Every man’s jacket is now described as a “blazer”, no matter what it actually looks like. Because most people nowadays don’t understand the specific features that differentiate these things from other things. Or care. Hats seem to be different, though. From reading period literature, while yes, there were specific identifiable named styles of hats, there were also styles that were just called “a hat” or possible “a soft hat” because there wasn’t a name for the style beyond a description like “those sort of hats people wear when they’re casually dressed and wanting to look sporty”. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-call-this-hat-that-basil-rathbone-is-wearing-as-sherlock-holmes-not-the-deer-stalker/1029132/27 "2026-04-10T18:38:18Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > Hats seem to be different, though. From reading period literature, while yes, there were specific identifiable named styles of hats, there were also styles that were just called “a hat” or possible “a soft hat” because there wasn’t a name for the style The wide brimmed wool hats that were commonly worn by cowboys (cowboys on the range did not wear bowlers), etc, the precursors to the Stetson had- afaik only one name, and that is a small and bad joke- they were called “wideawake hats” (the wool felt had no nap, get it??) ---
**Author:** ![Varl\_Hobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/91b2a8/32.png) [@Varl\_Hobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Varl_Hobe)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-call-this-hat-that-basil-rathbone-is-wearing-as-sherlock-holmes-not-the-deer-stalker/1029132/28 "2026-04-10T19:42:26Z")
What about sombreros or slouch hats? And bowlers were quite popular in the West. [Cowboy hat - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowboy_hat#:~:text=According%20to%20Lucius%20Beebe%2C%20the,brimmed%20and%20high-crowned%20hats). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-call-this-hat-that-basil-rathbone-is-wearing-as-sherlock-holmes-not-the-deer-stalker/1029132/29 "2026-04-10T20:43:17Z")
> [@Varl\_Hobe](#): > > What about sombreros or slouch hats? > > And bowlers were quite popular in the West. Yeah, Sombreros were also worn, along with straw hats. Bowlers were a town thing, the Wild Bunch dressed up in suits and bowlers for a famous staged photo. From the wiki article, see the picture of “An Arkansasfarmer wearing a wide-brim felt hat.”- that looks like the “wide-away hat”. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-call-this-hat-that-basil-rathbone-is-wearing-as-sherlock-holmes-not-the-deer-stalker/1029132/30 "2026-04-10T21:26:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > they were called “wideawake hats” (the wool felt had no nap, get it??) The title character of A. A. Milne’s poem “The Alchemist” wears one at night “so as not to go to sleep.” ---
**Author:** ![Varl\_Hobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/91b2a8/32.png) [@Varl\_Hobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Varl_Hobe)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-call-this-hat-that-basil-rathbone-is-wearing-as-sherlock-holmes-not-the-deer-stalker/1029132/31 "2026-04-10T22:26:41Z")
You should read this. It might change your mind that bowlers weren’t worn in the West. > **[The Deseret News - Google News Archive Search](https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=336&dat=19571026&id=xQQpAAAAIBAJ&pg=7036,5636283)** ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-call-this-hat-that-basil-rathbone-is-wearing-as-sherlock-holmes-not-the-deer-stalker/1029132/32 "2026-04-10T22:27:41Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > the Wild Bunch dressed up in suits and bowlers for a famous staged photo. People confuse gunslingers and cowboys all the time. Very few of the iconic names of the old west belong to actual cowboys. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2026, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-call-this-hat-that-basil-rathbone-is-wearing-as-sherlock-holmes-not-the-deer-stalker/1029132/33 "2026-04-10T22:29:04Z")
Farmer hats and western hats are so different. Even in Arkansas. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2026, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-call-this-hat-that-basil-rathbone-is-wearing-as-sherlock-holmes-not-the-deer-stalker/1029132/34 "2026-04-11T00:01:30Z")
> [@Varl\_Hobe](#): > > You should read this. It might change your mind that bowlers weren’t worn in the West. I didnt say that, and yes, he is the author that started that ridiculous idea- and he has been castigated for poor research on several articles. What I said is that cowboys- on the range- did not wear bowlers. Townsfolk did. Take a look at these period photos- > **[The 100 Best Historical Photos of the American Cowboy | True West Magazine](https://www.truewestmagazine.com/article/the-100-best-historical-photos-of-the-american-cowboy/)** > > The earliest known photographs of these iconic Americans are tintypes, taken as early as the 1870s, most likely captured during a trail drive or at an end-of-trail town. True, he does make a point- during the early or even “heyday” of the open range, Stetson wasnt making their famous “cowboy” hats, since Stetson wasnt founded until 1865- and the Boss of the Plains wasnt what we’d today consider a “cowboy hat”. Teddy Roosevelt, writing during that period and in the West, even told a story about a cowboy who wore a bowler, and how they made fun on him, and worse. > [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > People confuse gunslingers and cowboys all the time. Very few of the iconic names of the old west belong to actual cowboys. True, but it was photos like the Wild Bunch that confused Beebe. > **[Lucius Beebe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Beebe)** > > Lucius Morris Beebe (December 9, 1902 – February 4, 1966) was an American writer, gourmand, photographer, railroad historian, journalist, and syndicated columnist. > Beebe was born in Wakefield, Massachusetts, to a prominent Boston family. He attended both Harvard University and Yale University, where he contributed to the campus newspaper, Harvard Crimson, and the humor magazine, The Yale Record. During his tenures at boarding school and university, Beebe was known for his numerous pranks. One ... > Lucius Beebe & Charles Clegg’s railroad books have come under scrutiny for their prose and reliance on [anecdotal history](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence) both from contemporaries and historians since their deaths. A 1947 review of _Mixed Train Daily_ praised the book for its broad scope and striking photography but criticized the text for its “pompous” tone, authorial biases and dubious claims.[[21]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Beebe#cite_note-Overton-21) Railway & Locomotive Historical Society (RLHS) founder Charles Fisher was an outspoken critic of Beebe’s writing and compiled several lists of factual errors he found in it. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2026, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-call-this-hat-that-basil-rathbone-is-wearing-as-sherlock-holmes-not-the-deer-stalker/1029132/35 "2026-04-11T01:56:59Z")
Mad Magazine ran a whole article about that in the 50s: > **["Cowboy!" - Jack Davis - Mad Monday!](https://jeffoverturf.blogspot.com/2012/10/cowboy-jack-davis-mad-monday.html?m=1)** > > Jack Davis does DOUBLE duty!! That's right, Mad #20 saw a SECOND story lavished with Davis' beautiful (do you all realize what grand im... ---
**Author:** ![Varl\_Hobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/91b2a8/32.png) [@Varl\_Hobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Varl_Hobe)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2026, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-call-this-hat-that-basil-rathbone-is-wearing-as-sherlock-holmes-not-the-deer-stalker/1029132/36 "2026-04-11T03:34:33Z")
If get the chance, you should check out the photographs of Francis Marion Steele and Robert McCubbin’s collection. They documented thousands of working men in the 1870s and 80s, often in candid, non-staged settings, wearing bowlers and other non-Stetson hats. The bowler was actually designed as a riding hat to stay on in high winds, which is why it was a functional tool for the range, not just a ‘town fashion’ for the Wild Bunch. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2026, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-call-this-hat-that-basil-rathbone-is-wearing-as-sherlock-holmes-not-the-deer-stalker/1029132/37 "2026-04-11T07:20:36Z")
> [@Varl\_Hobe](#): > > The bowler was actually designed as a riding hat to stay on in high winds And the rounded shape kept it from falling off in mid-ride if a low-hanging tree branch brushed against your head. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2026, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-call-this-hat-that-basil-rathbone-is-wearing-as-sherlock-holmes-not-the-deer-stalker/1029132/38 "2026-04-11T17:49:00Z")
thats a geniune Fedora … pork-pies are very easily told apart: with a flat top and cylindrical (non conic) shape [https://i.postimg.cc/m23CkpYh/image.png](https://i.postimg.cc/m23CkpYh/image.png) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2026, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-call-this-hat-that-basil-rathbone-is-wearing-as-sherlock-holmes-not-the-deer-stalker/1029132/39 "2026-04-11T18:37:43Z")
> [@Varl\_Hobe](#): > > If get the chance, you should check out the photographs of Francis Marion Steele I did for this artist, and i saw no cowboys with bowlers, there is this photo Cowboy Camp 1898 Na Group Of Cowboys Eating Beside The Irwin Brothers Chuckwagon Near Ashland Kansas Photographed By Francis Marion Steele 1898, which shows 7 cowboys, all wearing wide brimmed hats that look like wool- and no bowlers. I then went to [The Robert G. McCubbin Photography Collection | Old West Events](https://auctions.oldwestevents.com/auctions/1-19POVB/the-robert-g-mccubbin-photography-collection) which has some of his photos, and some of cowboys, all of whom are wearing wide-brimmed hats- and no bowlers. ---
**Author:** ![Varl\_Hobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/91b2a8/32.png) [@Varl\_Hobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Varl_Hobe)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2026, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-call-this-hat-that-basil-rathbone-is-wearing-as-sherlock-holmes-not-the-deer-stalker/1029132/40 "2026-04-11T19:37:11Z")
The 1898 Steele photo shows the very end of the era, after Stetson’s marketing and Wild West shows had already standardized the ‘look.’ To see the diversity of the range, you have to look at the peak trail-driving years of the 1870s. ​Also, look closer at the ‘wide-brimmed’ hats in McCubbin’s 1870s-80s photos. Most aren’t modern creased cowboy hats; they are round-crowned, stiff felt domes. The distinction between a ‘Boss of the Plains’ and a ‘Bowler’ at that time was often just an inch of brim. The bowler wasn’t a ‘town hat’—it was a riding hat designed specifically to stay on a rider’s head in the wind, which is why thousands of working hands used them before the ‘Stetson look’ became the official uniform. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-call-this-hat-that-basil-rathbone-is-wearing-as-sherlock-holmes-not-the-deer-stalker/1029132.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-call-this-hat-that-basil-rathbone-is-wearing-as-sherlock-holmes-not-the-deer-stalker/1029132.md?page=3)