# What would you choose -- heaven/hell, or nothingness? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 13, 2005, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-choose-heaven-hell-or-nothingness/330840 "2005-11-13T10:20:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-choose-heaven-hell-or-nothingness/330840/21 "2005-11-13T19:54:58Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > The majority in the country are Christian; they belive in a male god, like it or not. What does the majority in this country have to do with the argument? The majority in India and China are not Christian, and that’s nearly half the population of the world right there. > [@](#): > > Read the OP. No mention of the American mainstream anywhere in it. > [@](#): > > I don’t hate God, as he is fictional. I do judge him, just as I can judge Sauron. Sauron was the devil. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Noctolator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Noctolator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noctolator)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-choose-heaven-hell-or-nothingness/330840/22 "2005-11-13T20:05:06Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > Mainstream God is male, not a mother. > > I don’t believe in gods and afterlives, I’m simply commenting on the common versions of them. I see no evidence there is anything there to comprehend. > > As for why they would be they same; they would be controlled by the same monster. If you don’t believe in gods and afterlives, why did you have a care to characterize God and furthermore to contradict Erek’s own personal characterization? Seems like you are spiteful about it. And what’s this about the mainstream God being male? I don’t get that bit. I can look back to the original monotheistic [or monolatrist even] God and I can show you texts which postulate god is no gender, both genders, and every gender else. So if you don’t believe in any of it, where are you getting your information/opinions? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-choose-heaven-hell-or-nothingness/330840/23 "2005-11-13T22:19:15Z")
> [@Noctolator](#): > > If you don’t believe in gods and afterlives, why did you have a care to characterize God and furthermore to contradict Erek’s own personal characterization? Seems like you are spiteful about it. Because the subject came up in a thread about the afterlife. :rolleyes: > [@Noctolator](#): > > And what’s this about the mainstream God being male? I don’t get that bit. I can look back to the original monotheistic [or monolatrist even] God and I can show you texts which postulate god is no gender, both genders, and every gender else. That is hardly “mainstream”; I’d be surprised if less than 90% of Judeo-Christian believers consider their god male. > [@Noctolator](#): > > So if you don’t believe in any of it, where are you getting your information/opinions? How can I _not_ be exposed to religion in a country as infested with it as America ? I learned about it in self defense. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2005, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-choose-heaven-hell-or-nothingness/330840/24 "2005-11-13T22:40:01Z")
I choose C. Mindwipe & reincarnation. Which is the apparent reality from a physicalist standpoint. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-choose-heaven-hell-or-nothingness/330840/25 "2005-11-14T06:11:29Z")
I think after a couple of hundred years really anyone would want to go to nothingness, I mean hell can you imagine living F-O-R-E-V-E-R!!! ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-choose-heaven-hell-or-nothingness/330840/26 "2005-11-14T06:16:03Z")
> [@pool](#): > > I think after a couple of hundred years really anyone would want to go to nothingness, I mean hell can you imagine living F-O-R-E-V-E-R!!! Yeah, I sure can. If it’s in heaven, a place of total happiness and fulfilment, sign me up! ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-choose-heaven-hell-or-nothingness/330840/27 "2005-11-14T06:26:22Z")
Damn you Rickjay for single-handedly unraveling my whole argument! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-choose-heaven-hell-or-nothingness/330840/28 "2005-11-14T06:46:09Z")
> [@Fridgemagnet](#): > > I choose nothingness, on the offchance that Heaven is full to capacity with 144 000 exceedingly smug Jehovah’s Witnesses. Actually, Jehovah’s Witnesses believe unrepentant sinners will be [annihilated](http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/2002/7/15/article_02.htm), not condemned to burn in hell for all eternity (as the OP’s dichotomy specifies). And while the JW’s believe Heaven will indeed be [full up with 144,000 celestial V.I.P.'s](http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/2000/10/1/article_02.htm), everyone else who hasn’t rejected God and been vaporized in the lake of fire will get to live forever in an Earthly Paradise. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-choose-heaven-hell-or-nothingness/330840/29 "2005-11-14T06:56:11Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > Besides, all that fire and brimstone shit isn’t even in the bible… > [@](#): > > A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name.” – [Revelation 14:9-11](http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Revelation%2014:9-11;&version=31;) > [@](#): > > The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. – [Matthew 13:41-42](http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Matthew%2013:41-42;&version=31;) Also [Luke 16:19-31](http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Luke%2016:19-31;&version=31;). ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-choose-heaven-hell-or-nothingness/330840/30 "2005-11-14T11:50:14Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > Duuuuuuust in the wind… all we are is dust in the wind… If you are a Christian you are told that you are but dust and to dust you shall return, I read that in the Bible. So in a sense yes,you are dust. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![alimarx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@alimarx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alimarx)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-choose-heaven-hell-or-nothingness/330840/31 "2005-11-14T20:03:05Z")
[Talking Heads] Heaven Heaven is a place A place where nothing Nothing ever happens [/Talking Heads] ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-choose-heaven-hell-or-nothingness/330840/32 "2005-11-14T21:06:47Z")
In heaven there is no beer, that’s why we drink it here. ---
**Author:** ![Tevildo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Tevildo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tevildo)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-choose-heaven-hell-or-nothingness/330840/33 "2005-11-14T21:37:01Z")
I’m not sure that anyone can _choose_ whether to believe something or not. People believe and disbelieve things for lots of reasons, but I don’t think that personal choice comes into it; you can choose whether or not to go to a particular church, or whether or not to make some statement of faith, but I would say that _belief_ of itself is a much more subconscious thing. Speaking personally, I believe I’m going to Hell. I know I shouldn’t believe that, but I can’t help myself. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-choose-heaven-hell-or-nothingness/330840/34 "2005-11-14T22:19:20Z")
I find some of the posts in this thread to be highly dubious. No one would choose nothingness over a form of existence where you would at least be able to move around and do mostly what you choose. Especially not just because you have personal animosity towards the Christian god. This is sort of like the “big talk” I felt was going on in the thread where someone claimed they’d take death over losing a hand. As it is, there’s a lot of supposition here about heaven when heaven isn’t very laid out in the bible. For example Anaamika’s ideal of a happy afterlife could eaisly happen under the Christian concept of heaven.l ---
**Author:** ![Tevildo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Tevildo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tevildo)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-choose-heaven-hell-or-nothingness/330840/35 "2005-11-14T22:25:24Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > I find some of the posts in this thread to be highly dubious. No one would choose nothingness over a form of existence where you would at least be able to move around and do mostly what you choose. Speak for yourself. 🙂 Hamlet certainly would - “'tis a consummation devoutly to be wished”. And, from my own fandom, Mírel chose that option. I appreciate that some people may find the idea of oblivion to be horrific, to be worse than any torment that the traditional Hell may have to offer, but this is by no means a universal belief. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-choose-heaven-hell-or-nothingness/330840/36 "2005-11-14T22:25:29Z")
To counter some of the things Der Trihs has said, if there is an all powerful and all knowing God, this God is well beyond labels like “egomaniac.” This god is also beyond any sort of gender definitions, or any of the labels or characterizations that even the most devout worshipers want to ascribe to the divine. If you want to hate God you have to work within the context of the religion. And to work within the context of the Christian religion it’s impossible to logically hate god, because God is a being beyond comprehension so any attempts to levy judgement upon this God-being are completely fruitless. Yes, you can judge Sauron as a character. But to be logical you have to judge him within the contexts of the book. Is he good or bad in that fictional world? It’s obvious he’s bad and does things that are universally seen as wrong, Tolkien doesn’t really employ shades of grey, even Sauron knows he’s evil and he’s not too unhappy about it. You can attempt to do the same with the Christian god, but to do it logically you have to work within the constraints of the religion. And within those constraints to call God a monster is not logical and in fact just proves how fallible _you_ are. ---
**Author:** ![Tevildo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Tevildo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tevildo)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-choose-heaven-hell-or-nothingness/330840/37 "2005-11-14T22:27:09Z")
Míriel, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-choose-heaven-hell-or-nothingness/330840/38 "2005-11-14T22:28:59Z")
> [@Tevildo](#): > > Speak for yourself. 🙂 Hamlet certainly would - “'tis a consummation devoutly to be wished”. And, from my own fandom, Mírel chose that option. I appreciate that some people may find the idea of oblivion to be horrific, to be worse than any torment that the traditional Hell may have to offer, but this is by no means a universal belief. Hamlet isn’t real, or even remotely similar to any real people. IN fact almost none of Shakespeare’s characters have anything in common with real people, they’re overblown and epic figures, not human beings. I didn’t say everyone finds oblivion horrific. I think many just accept oblivion will come eventually, and have accepted that. Some accept that oblivion is going to come and embrace it (perhaps because their lives are unpleasant.) But I’m saying if you die and there are two doors, one door offers a form of existence free from physical handicap/pain and the other door offers oblivion, almost no matter what conditions are put on the first door no one will choose the door to oblivion over it. I put the “physical handicap/pain” option in there because I do think that certain forms of physical existence are tantamount to being in oblivion anyways. ---
**Author:** ![Tevildo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Tevildo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tevildo)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-choose-heaven-hell-or-nothingness/330840/39 "2005-11-14T22:31:49Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > You can attempt to do the same with the Christian god, but to do it logically you have to work within the constraints of the religion. And within those constraints to call God a monster is not logical and in fact just proves how fallible _you_ are. I agree that it might be contradictory for a Christian to describe God as “evil”, but surely that doesn’t apply to everyone. You yourself agree that there are things that are “universally seen as wrong”, rather than merely being “wrong” by the (arbitary) definitions of a particular religion. What’s wrong with a disinterested party assessing the Christian God by these universal standards, and finding Him to be evil? ---
**Author:** ![Tevildo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Tevildo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tevildo)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2005, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-choose-heaven-hell-or-nothingness/330840/40 "2005-11-14T22:33:35Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > But I’m saying if you die and there are two doors, one door offers a form of existence free from physical handicap/pain and the other door offers oblivion, almost no matter what conditions are put on the first door no one will choose the door to oblivion over it. I would. Remember that not everyone thinks and feels and believes in the same way that you do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-choose-heaven-hell-or-nothingness/330840.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-choose-heaven-hell-or-nothingness/330840.md?page=3)