# What would you fire a person for? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 31, 2005, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-fire-a-person-for/337836 "2005-12-31T08:12:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2006, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-fire-a-person-for/337836/41 "2006-01-02T04:20:09Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I love working for guys like **D.E.S.K.**. It’s nice when the employee is valued for competence and productivity rather than for being the skiing or drinking buddy of the manager. But if a manager is willing to terminate an otherwise competent and productive employee on the basis of two incompetent days in a row, is that manager really valuing competence? > [@hajairo](#): > > I agree, if you have life problems that are going to make you useless then it’s time to take a vacation day. And that’s fine, and I agree, but people don’t always recognize when their problems are such that it’s going to have that sort of effect. Look, I’m not defending slacking off as a standard operating procedure. I’ve played pickup enough times for slackers that I have very little sympathy for them. I just think there are other options for people who are deserving of them and that a manager ought to be willing to explore those options. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2006, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-fire-a-person-for/337836/42 "2006-01-02T04:32:12Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > But if a manager is willing to terminate an otherwise competent and productive employee on the basis of two incompetent days in a row, is that manager really valuing competence? I was speaking more generally than specifically. > [@](#): > > And that’s fine, and I agree, but people don’t always recognize when their problems are such that it’s going to have that sort of effect. Which is why a _two_ day rule makes sense but you’re correct in that it shouldn’t be automatic. ---
**Author:** ![Hedda\_Rosa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hedda_rosa/32/1204_2.png) [@Hedda\_Rosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hedda_Rosa)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2006, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-fire-a-person-for/337836/43 "2006-01-02T06:19:20Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I agree, if you have life problems that are going to make you useless then it’s time to take a vacation day. This nails it for me. If you need a day off then for goodness sake, take the day off. We aren’t curing cancer here so a day isn’t going to make a life-saving difference, and the very large corporate company I work for strongly encourages managers to respect the occasional priority of home or personal issues. I give my team unofficial comp days a few times a year to use under the radar. They all regularly work more than their share and my bosses know it. (We also don’t have official numbers of sick days. If you are sick for a day or two please just take the day off - don’t come in and breathe on your coworkers. If you are sick more than 7 days, make it official and HR will be happy to help you file for short-term disability so you can keep your income while recovering.) As to the OP, my supervisor and I recently sort-of fired one of my team for gross incompetence, insubordination and a repeatedly hostile attitude to coworkers and consumers. It took a year of warnings and evidence gathering before things came to a head, and as far as we are concerned she actually quit, and wasn’t fired. There was a noisy confrontation with the fired person repeating “I don’t need this bulls\*\*\*, I don’t have to defend myself to you, how dare you accuse me” etc. on the telephone. Fired person claims that when my boss finally said “Well it sounds like you aren’t really happy in this job, so maybe we should just part ways” that was being fired. Our position is that when her response to my boss was to scream “Fine! F\*\*\* you!” and hang up she effectively quit. Hairsplitting really…. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2006, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-fire-a-person-for/337836/44 "2006-01-02T06:30:53Z")
> [@pool](#): > > Sleeping on the job would probably get almost anyone fired. In places where I’ve worked productivity is not directly proportional to hours worked. I had someone working for me who did more work asleep than many awake. If someone produces industry leading developments every six months, he can sleep all he wants. ---
**Author:** ![Amblydoper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@Amblydoper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amblydoper)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2006, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-fire-a-person-for/337836/45 "2006-01-02T11:15:21Z")
We had this dishwasher, ‘L,’ at my last job who was worthless\*. He routinely showed up to work late, and or unwashed. The few times he was allowed to handle food, he did so without wearing gloves, despite being told over and over to wear them. He would leave for smoke-breaks without telling anyone atleast every hour (and for 15 to 20 minutes at a time). He was SUSPENDED for bringing in shotgun shells to work (found in his locker, i don’t know all the details). And I personally caught L in a lie while acting as MOD… He pulled a no-call-no-show and wouldn’t answer his cell phone… I called on a coworker’s cell, and he claimed to be at his other job… I immedietly called the other hotel (same company) and L’s boss said he was not working that night. After all of this, my boss still did not fire him. Months later, L was transfered to Laundry by his own request. We were clad to finally be rid of him, although it didn’t happen soon enough! Also, on TWO occaisions, my boss rehired employees who were fired and flagged as “Not for rehire”. \*On an unrelated mater, my boss yelled at ME for major problems with two banquets that HE was responsible for on my days off. I suppose he was worthless as well. ---
**Author:** ![Obsidian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/51bf81/32.png) [@Obsidian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Obsidian)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2006, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-fire-a-person-for/337836/46 "2006-01-02T11:24:08Z")
> [@D.E.S.K.Top668](#): > > Your Cat/Aunt Millie/ Wife died? Take time off and I’ll send you a sympathy card and mean it. But the second you step in the workplace and log-in/punch-in/sign-in, you work. I get that. I assume you are reasonable with your sick/vacation time? As a general office policy, I much prefer people be home if they’re too sick/messed up to work. I had a boss who used to say that he’d much rather me stay home for a day or two and recharge the batteries than be at 1/2 speed for a week. I also understand (but dislike) the type of boss who expects you to drag yourself in no matter how sick you may be, because they really need a warm body. Chaos is when you meet that rare jackass who expects employees to be 100% when at work, yet to not take sick days. [So went the one time I got fired.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=299205). Yes, she was looking for a reason to fire me, but she wrote me up for “excessive absence” for taking 3 sickdays (for food poisoning so severe I needed IV fluids). It’s funny now that I look back how ridiculous she was-- when you make someone come in against doctor’s orders, you really shouldn’t be surprised when they’re too sick to get anything done. Man, you can be fired for the stupidest things. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2006, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-fire-a-person-for/337836/47 "2006-01-02T13:42:11Z")
I was a sort of partner in a very small tutoring company. In the heyday of the “net economy”, we were making a web site to teach English vocabulary. One of our employees was allowed to argue for dumb things (my fault, mostly), and generally caused a lot of discord. He also reported a database as finished, and when the director looked at the very big Excel sheet, he found unfilled lines. “But the writer didn’t turn them in!” I don’t know what part of “finished” he was unclear on. If we hadn’t looked, we would have assumed that those words had, you know, example sentences and stuff, like all the rest of the words. The director got hot enough (a rare occassion) to call the situation “appalling”, and then the yelling started. I had had enough, and I opened the door and said, “Get out!” “No!” “I’ll call the cops!” “I don’t care!” You can see that he had a defiance/ego problem. I ended up driving away and then calling the director, telling him not to give in. I’d been fired before, and I never got to argue my way out of it. He then gave him two weeks pay, which I think was just his soft heart. The guy didn’t deserve it. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2006, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-fire-a-person-for/337836/48 "2006-01-02T14:21:14Z")
> [@Otto to DESKtop668](#): > > You’re not presenting a consistent definition of what you consider “useless.” You went from “come in and don’t do your job for two days in a row” to “You’re having **A** bad day and can’t get much done (and) you don’t have a good reason” to “you might as well not be there or you’re actively hindering those that are there to work” to “your current work will probably compromise my department’s productivity” to “two days in a row result in 0% productivity” within the space of a couple of posts. If I worked for you I wouldn’t know what to make of this sort of subjectivity. What you make of it is that he’s the manager, and that it’s a percentage game: the decision is 100% his and 0% yours. > [@](#): > > I am baffled by the idea that a manager would throw away the investment of time and money, and incur the costs of finding and training a new employee, by terminating an employee after two “useless” days rather than, for example, mandating a suspension instead. Maybe when you’re that focused on productivity, you can’t be that focused on costs? :dubious: In any case, it’s probably more of an attitude than a policy. It sets a tone that this is a high pressure workplace, and you damn well better be up to the pressure. ---
**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2006, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-fire-a-person-for/337836/49 "2006-01-02T14:29:42Z")
> [@D.E.S.K.Top668](#): > > Sorry if I was vague; but if you work for me and you come in and don 't do your job for two days in a row, you’re out. Your Cat/Aunt Millie/ Wife died? Take time off and I’ll send you a sympathy card and mean it. But the second you step in the workplace and log-in/punch-in/sign-in, you work. You’re having **A** bad day and can’t get much done, I’ll be the first to buy you a beer after work and talk to you; If you don’t have a good reason, bye-bye. If you can’t work at 100% for a day or two for some reason, I understand. If you come in though, that means you can work at some level. If you don’t work much after coming in (for one day), hey, everybody has a bad day. You just come in for the pay and don’t do jack for two days in a row, you’re out. If you’re at work, you work. Period. (Please note, useless, to me, means you might as well not be there or you’re actively hindering those that are there to work.) > Does the above clarify? If not, let me know and I’ll try to explain more sufficiently > > Tough (but fair, I think) - DESK You’re not my boss, are you? ---
**Author:** ![D.E.S.K.Top668](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@D.E.S.K.Top668](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D.E.S.K.Top668)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-fire-a-person-for/337836/50 "2006-01-05T02:01:51Z")
> [@kiz](#): > > You’re not my boss, are you? I doubt I am. Did you recently show that you don’t care at all about your job? Did you just recently get fired for doing nothing at all? Have I had to wake you up from behind a pallet to get you to do stupid, but required, work? Did I have to send you home for admitting that you hadn’t slept for three days, due to drugs? If this isn’t you, then your boss isn’t me. Peace - DESK ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-fire-a-person-for/337836/51 "2006-01-05T02:19:43Z")
> [@D.E.S.K.Top668](#): > > Sorry if I was vague; but if you work for me and you come in and don 't do your job for two days in a row, you’re out. Your Cat/Aunt Millie/ Wife died? Take time off and I’ll send you a sympathy card and mean it. But the second you step in the workplace and log-in/punch-in/sign-in, you work. You’re having **A** bad day and can’t get much done, I’ll be the first to buy you a beer after work and talk to you; If you don’t have a good reason, bye-bye. If you can’t work at 100% for a day or two for some reason, I understand. If you come in though, that means you can work at some level. If you don’t work much after coming in (for one day), hey, everybody has a bad day. You just come in for the pay and don’t do jack for two days in a row, you’re out. If you’re at work, you work. Period. (Please note, useless, to me, means you might as well not be there or you’re actively hindering those that are there to work.) > Does the above clarify? If not, let me know and I’ll try to explain more sufficiently > > Tough (but fair, I think) - DESK I don’t think so. I work with a woman who’s baby has cancer. Its curable (we all hope), but its going to take months of chemo and major surgery. No one is expecting her to pull her weight every day in full (for the most part she is) - and we are ALL willing under these circustances to cut the woman a little slack. One of my other coworkers lost a wife to a two year battle with cancer. There were entire months he didn’t get jack shit accomplished - we worked around him and worked for him, and everyone was happy to do so, because I hope if my husband ever gets cancer, my coworkers and employers understand if there are months I don’t get much done. When I was pregnant, I worked a seven hour day and got paid for eight. It was a salaried job, not hourly, but I had some complications that made it difficult for me to work a full day - and at my normal intensity when I did work. Of course, we are all salaried, which means sometimes you have a 50 hour workweek (or 60) and sometimes the company cuts you some slack. But employees often have shit going on in their personal lives - and sometimes the shit takes a little time to resolve before they can become fully functional. ---
**Author:** ![xbuckeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9e8a1a/32.png) [@xbuckeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xbuckeye)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-fire-a-person-for/337836/52 "2006-01-05T02:28:52Z")
I’ve fired for drunk at work (underage), chronic late to work, and serious violations of building security by issuing a master key to someone who was not allowed to have a master key. IMHO, there are alot of people who deserve to be fired who aren’t. I think the big ones are doing things that cost the company bad reputation of loss of money. Chronic sexual harassment, and unsafe driving in a marked company vehicle come to mind. Or anything that causes danger to coworkers or the public, like drunk at work (when you are security, oh and did I mention underage?) or sick and serving food. Or anything that makes you coworkers chronically annoyed, like not shoeing up to relieve them. I think if you are generally productive and take critique, you don’t have anything to worry about. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-fire-a-person-for/337836.md?page=2)