# What would you have done in Oprah's place (racism in Switzerland)? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 9, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821 "2013-08-09T18:14:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/121 "2013-08-11T11:34:40Z")
They may be a racist people, but they sure do the cheese thing right. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/122 "2013-08-11T14:47:07Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > In Oprah’s place I, too, would have felt a little insulted, but it’s really hard to call it racism. She was in the store, checking out other purses. If that store really didn’t want a black person in it, even a rich black woman, would it have let her in to begin with? So the lunch counters in the Southern US weren’t being racist because they let the black customers in, even though they denied service to them? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/123 "2013-08-11T16:20:05Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > It was racism in the sense that the store person probably thought a black woman could not afford it, because all black people are poor, you know? The problem is that I doubt that people selling luxury items make this kind of assumption, since they tend to have an international customer base that is likely to include dark-skinned people. I would suspect they’d would rely more on the brand of the customer’s clothes, for instance, than on his skin colour to make a determination. I doubt, to give an example, that a wealthy middle-easterner entering a Parisian jeweller shop risk being kicked out just because he has the same physical appearance as an Arab immigrant. In any case, she salesperson didn’t think she was poor, since she was trying to sell her 15 000 $ bags instead. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/124 "2013-08-11T16:32:49Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Sure- that is definitely not taking the high road, but certainly not evidence for seeking out a manufactured racist incident, which is a pretty serious allegation. . And accusing someone of racism isn’t a pretty serious allegation? I want more evidences than that to believe her. She might even sincerely believe it was racism (rather than deliberatly manufacture the incident), but even then, I want more evidences. Besides, “No, it’s too expensive” seems to me a perfectly valid answer to “May I see the bag right there?” when we’re talking about ludicrously expensive items. I honestly don’t know how this kind of shop operate (they necessarily must let _some_ people try/handle their most costly items), but if I personnally had such a valuable thing to sell, I certainly wouldn’t let any random stranger handle it (hence potentially damage it). ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/125 "2013-08-11T16:57:40Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > It’s included the article linked in the OP and I also linked to it on YouTube in post #90. The one in the OP doesn’t work. I’m sure I’ll run across it somewhere though. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/126 "2013-08-11T17:14:13Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Besides, “No, it’s too expensive” seems to be a perfectly valid answer to “May I see the bag right there?” when we’re talking about ludicrously expensive items. A valid response would be, “Yes, but company policy requires that customers leave a deposit first to view this item, since it is one-of-a-kind and very high in demand. Are you still interested?” “No, it’s too expensive!” is an inappropriate response for a business who wants people to actually, you know, buy stuff from them (expensive or not). > [@](#): > > I honestly don’t know how this kind of shop operate (they necessarily must let _some_ people try/handle their most costly items), but if I personnally had such a valuable thing to sell, I certainly wouldn’t let any random stranger handle it (hence potentially damage it). A store’s business is to court “random strangers”. It’s not really a store if you have to be a friend of the shop owner to be treated nicely. And if she was worried about potential damage, all the clerk had to say was, “I can let you take a closer look, miss, but it against store policy to allow customers to handle such a one-of-kind, high-demand item.” It’s strange to me that a “random stranger” can test-drive a $35K car. But asking to look closer at a $35K bag that’s already hanging on the wall is presumptuous and rude. What kind of bizarro world shit is that? ---
**Author:** ![Girlundone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/919ad9/32.png) [@Girlundone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girlundone)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/127 "2013-08-11T17:47:44Z")
> [@](#): > > I have watched the video in question and would not describe Oprah as mocking the clerk’s accent…and neither did the article you quoted. Oprah is known for mimicking others’ accents. I don’t know what her motivation was in the interview, but apparently she does this a lot and its not meant as mocking. [This article](http://t.nbcnews.com/health/im-not-mocking-you-i-you-1C9386879)says, > [@](#): > > “There was an Oprah show where she had mimicked a Southern accent and somebody took offense so they went back and combed through the archives and basically she does it all the time,” says Arika Okrent, a Philadelphia-based linguistics expert and author of “In the Land of Invented Languages.” “When she’s talking to her guests, she’ll mimic the accent back to them.” I never thought it was weird or disrespectful to do this because I have a fascination with accents and I do it all the time. As far as what I would have done in her case, I have no idea. I will never in my life encounter this sort of problem. I’m white and I’m pretty sure the saleswoman would have never shown me that bag either. She would have said, “it’s too expensive for you” and she would have been right. At the Goodwill, they show me anything I ask to see. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/128 "2013-08-11T17:56:03Z")
I think it’s a pretty safe to assume that Oprah knows how high-end stores typically operate. Or, dare I say it, she knows a helluva lot more about how high-end stores operate than a bunch of neck-bearded, underemployed internet junkies do. I think this needs to be said again: Oprah didn’t run to the presses with this story. She was asked about prejudice and she offered up this as a recent anecdote. Whether this incident is racist or classist, it is still an example of prejudice. It’s unfortunate that people still want Oprah to conform to whatever fictional image they think she should conform to. I can’t even believe people are sitting here acting like Oprah ISN’T known for her philanthropy and generosity. Or that all she does is muckrack about race, instead of all that gloopy, feel-good stuff that’s made her so filthy rich. Just goes to show me that people will invent whatever they want to just so they can get their hate on. The woman has put up with [hateration](http://www.salon.com/2013/08) like this her whole life, despite proving herself millions of times over. So I don’t blame her for feeling entitled to a $35K handbag every now and again. She should have bought that bag and beat that clerk silly with it. Then put that shit back on the wall and walked right out of there. I’M OPRAH, BITCH. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/129 "2013-08-11T18:06:32Z")
> [@Antigen](#): > > I think it’s far more likely to have been clothes-profiling. If she wasn’t flaunting her wealth in her clothing and was looking too casual, I can absolutely see a snooty shopgirl saying “it’s too expensive for you.” There are plenty of stores with **bouncers** , for crying out loud, to keep out people who don’t look rich enough to shop there. The store owner said the saleswoman’s English isn’t her best language. Several possibilities come to mind: 1. Blatant classism. Oprah wasn’t dressed in a flattering-enough way for the saleswoman to believe this is a woman who spends in clothes as much as Oprah does, and said saleswoman was stupid enough to say that “for you”. 2. Classism but not so blatant. The “for you” was imagined by Oprah. 3. A definition of “good customer service” which does not match Ms Winfrey’s. There are many stores where if you ask for a specific item they show you that item and a bunch of similar ones, in case you prefer one of these. Also, sometimes the item that’s on display is one that the store doesn’t even expect to sell to a walk-in; they expect to sell it to the kind of long-term customers who buy a high volume, but on personal credit (not a CC but personal “IOU” with the store), or during the sales period, but not at full price. I’ve had a salesperson tell me that the bag I was asking to look at was “expensive as hell, I’ll show you several similar ones,” but when I asked to also show me that one she did so, no problem (I ended up buying a similar model, in the same price range, which I still have 8 years later). ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/130 "2013-08-11T18:13:28Z")
It’s hard to say if there really was racism in play. If I had Oprah’s kind of money, I would have been tempted to hire some ringers of various races with different kinds of dress and grooming styles to test the store and see if it’s really racism. They could be equipped with hidden cameras. If the test reveals that there really is racism, she could make a video out of it and promote it on her show. While there may very well be a lot of racism in fancy boutiques, I have a strong feeling that the test would show that her treatment was mainly because of the way she was groomed and dressed. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/131 "2013-08-11T18:13:48Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I was telling this story to my wife and added, "It is not up to salesman to tell a customer something is too expensive for them. My wife replied, “If you’re Swiss you can!” We have lived in Switzerland for a total of nearly three years, about half in Zurich and half in Fribourg and got to know the Swiss fairly well. Also spent a lot of time in Swtzerland - and the Swiss are not generally known for being warm and fuzzy. My guess is the employee didn’t want every clown to come in and fondle a $38,000 purse, just so they could hold it for a few minutes. I know that in watch stores, that have watches that are in the millions and I doubt most people would be treated to trying them on “for fun” and they get a bit picky. Not the way to do business - as they have discovered, you can’t tell the rich by their look and/or clothing - but they have probably had enough cheap ass tourists (all colors and nationalities) barge through the door and just want to touch and play with the expensive goods. I have mentioned before - I have a friend who is rather wealthy - he inherited an entire small TOWN (the main street, all businesses in the area and all of the surrounding farm land) when he was only 20 years old. If you saw him enter a shop today, you would think he maybe worked as a substitute teacher somewhere - jeans, sneakers, knit shirt - and would never guess he could probably buy most anything in whatever shop he entered. He is cool about it…and usually just laughs when it is implied he should look in the cheaper section of whatever business he enters. But employees in Switzerland should know better - at the school I taught in Switzerland, one 12 year old went in and bought 10 Rolex watches for his family back home in Kuwait…and another 17 year old Saudi kid bought a Lamborghini and had it shipped home. Neither of those kids looked like they had enough money to buy an iPad at first glance. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/132 "2013-08-11T18:31:17Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > It’s hard to say if there really was racism in play. > > If I had Oprah’s kind of money, I would have been tempted to hire some ringers of various races with different kinds of dress and grooming styles to test the store and see if it’s really racism. They could be equipped with hidden cameras. > > If the test reveals that there really is racism, she could make a video out of it and promote it on her show. And then have people say she’s a one-note johnny who can’t talk about anything other than race? And have people call her an Al Sharpton in drag? Oh noes. > [@](#): > > While there may very well be a lot of racism in fancy boutiques, I have a strong feeling that the test would show that her treatment was mainly because of the way she was groomed and dressed. I have a strong feeling that race and class are not as independent as people would like to believe. In the mind of a prejudiced person, a white person who is dressed in Donna Karen fashions looks “nice”. A black person who is dressed the same way looks like she is “gaudy” or “trying too hard.” And the last time I checked, classicism was a bad thing just like racism is. I don’t know why people are so quick to dismiss charges of the latter and then point to the former. As if the former is any better. I wonder why you don’t hear stories like this from white celebrities. I’m really having a hard time imagining someone like, say, Warren Buffet being told “no, it’s to expensive!” if he were browsing around in a store. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/133 "2013-08-11T18:44:09Z")
I’m sure ignorant mouth breathers who have never traveled and shopped in Europe think it’s a hug-filled love fest but it isn’t, and sales people don’t give a rat’s ass who you are, which is a pretty fair way of doing things, actually. It’s extra hilarious how Americans get all butthurt because people in other countries aren’t all chatty in English. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/134 "2013-08-11T18:53:59Z")
My problem with this situation is that I can’t think of anything Oprah could have done that wouldn’t make her someone’s bad guy. She asks to see the bag not once. Not twice. But three times. Each time she was denied. If she had played the “Do you know who I am?” card, people would be condemning her for being the type of person who would do this. If she had taken out her wallet and flashed her cash, people would be condemning her for being so ostentatious. If she had left and dressed up even more fabulously than before and returned to the store, people would condemn her for being weak-willed, obsequious, and conformist. And I would be one of them. She apparently knew the store owner. She could have called the store owner while at the store and asked for permission to see the handbag. But oh noes! That would have meant embarrassing the poor store clerk. Someone would certainly condemn her for throwing around her clout like that. She’s being judged for just deigning to be in the store instead of founding another boarding school. I’m not a fan of Oprah (I admire her as a figure, but I am not a fan of her products). But dayum. The woman can’t catch a fucking break. And the thing is, if she didn’t mention this incident or ones like it, people would assume that she doesn’t have any hassles to contend with–that having a kabillion bucks means she’s [transcended](http://www.womanist-musings.com/2010/04/apparently-oprah-has-transcended.html) prejudice. She’s damned no matter what she does. ---
**Author:** ![Boulter\_s\_Canary](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Boulter\_s\_Canary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boulter_s_Canary)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/135 "2013-08-11T19:02:13Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I’m sure ignorant mouth breathers who have never traveled and shopped in Europe think it’s a hug-filled love fest but it isn’t, and sales people don’t give a rat’s ass who you are, which is a pretty fair way of doing things, actually. This. The attitude described used to be pretty common in high-end shops in London. A friend of mine once asked in a Bond Street store how much a pair of shoes in the window cost. “Madam” came the reply “If you have to ask, you can’t afford them.” ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/136 "2013-08-11T19:36:34Z")
Oprah didn’t ask how much the bag costs. She asked if she could see it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/137 "2013-08-11T19:37:05Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I’m sure ignorant mouth breathers Being a _mouth breather_ has nothing at all to be with being stupid, but is a medical condition. By classing those with a medical condition as being stupid, you are showing yourself as being insensitive and biased. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/138 "2013-08-11T19:39:30Z")
> [@Boulter\_s\_Canary](#): > > The attitude described used to be pretty common in high-end shops in London. A friend of mine once asked in a Bond Street store how much a pair of shoes in the window cost. > > “Madam” came the reply “If you have to ask, you can’t afford them.” Well, according to the shop owner, the saleswoman didn’t have that attitude at all. [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/09/world/oprah-winfrey-racism-switzerland/index.html) quoted the owner as saying “because my sales assistant felt a little embarrassed about the price, she quickly said that she also had the model in other materials such as ostrich and suede, which weren’t so expensive”. She also denied that her saleswoman would have refused to sell the bag to Oprah, saying “Who wouldn’t want to sell a bag like that? Everyone would. My saleswoman just wanted to do her best.” ---
**Author:** ![Boulter\_s\_Canary](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Boulter\_s\_Canary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boulter_s_Canary)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/139 "2013-08-11T22:14:39Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Oprah didn’t ask how much the bag costs. She asked if she could see it. The shop assistant _was_ a bit premature… ---
**Author:** ![historicprops](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8c91f0/32.png) [@historicprops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/historicprops)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/140 "2013-08-11T22:45:01Z")
I question whether this was actually a case of racism. I have always understood Switzerland to be a pretty non-racist country. (although I could be wrong) There could be a number of reasons for the clerk’s comment, but since I wasn’t there, I certainly can’t say which is true. The clerk may have disliked Oprah personally. While her show isn’t aired in Switzerland, Europeans tend to be well-traveled, and the clerk might have recognized her. The article says the clerk had shown her a number of items, before making the comment regarding the purse. Perhaps the clerk found something offensive in Oprah’s manner, justly or unjustly. (she stood too close, she stood too far away, or any of a thousand other cultural details that Oprah might not have picked up on.) Or perhaps the opposite is true: the clerk actually liked Oprah, and felt tat the purse was overpriced, and was trying to dissuade Oprah from wasting her money. It could, also, have been racism, just as Oprah said. However, Oprah has faced genuine racism, countless times in her life, so she may be better able to perceive it, or, conversely, she may be more likely to ascribe racism incorrectly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821.md?page=8)