# What would you have done in Oprah's place (racism in Switzerland)? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 9, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821 "2013-08-09T18:14:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/141 "2013-08-11T23:29:44Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Being a _mouth breather_ has nothing at all to be with being stupid, You gotta admit there is considerable overlap of the two circles on the graph. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/142 "2013-08-11T23:35:57Z")
> [@historicprops](#): > > I question whether this was actually a case of racism. I have always understood Switzerland to be a pretty non-racist country. (although I could be wrong) Oh boy, are you wrong… Of all the places I’ve been to in the world (and I consider myself to be pretty well-travelled), Switzerland is the most insidiously, died-in-the-wool and unapologetically racist. I refer you to my previous post in this thread [(post #74)](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16559259&postcount=74). The latest legal unpleasantness regarding asylum-seekers that Switzerland has enacted is but the latest drop in an ocean of very very nasty stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/143 "2013-08-12T00:56:38Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > If she was looking for “manufactured racism” she would have reported it right away, instead of what she did do: leaving quietly and NOT going to the press, then waiting a month and coming forward only when Switzerland is doing some pretty crappy things regarding immigrants/refugees. :smack: I missed this part of the story; I thought she was just complaining about a particularly rich person’s version of racism. If she’s doing it the service of drawing attention to more serious and widespread racism, I withdraw my questions about the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/144 "2013-08-12T01:34:14Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Besides, “No, it’s too expensive” seems to me a perfectly valid answer to “May I see the bag right there?” when we’re talking about ludicrously expensive items. I honestly don’t know how this kind of shop operate (they necessarily must let _some_ people try/handle their most costly items), but if I personnally had such a valuable thing to sell, I certainly wouldn’t let any random stranger handle it (hence potentially damage it). I’ve read this a few times to try to grok what it means. If you have a display item too fragile/precious to let someone look at, why is it the store? I can see if it’s there for decoration and NOT FOR SALE. I’ve been in little mom and pop stores and seen signs that say this. Wouldn’t you have some kind of insurance if you sold these kinds of goods? Or a special “rich ass folks” section where rich ass folks can look at your wares? I understand some profiling takes place in high end retail. But it’s a dangerous, slippery slope. One of the consequences of acting like an asshole is that people get to derive their own rationale for your assholism. Whether it’s classism, sexism. jingoism, racism… that’s one of the best reasons to not act in that manner. What surprises me (actually, it doesn’t, I’ve seen this movie many times before) is that whenever someone suggests that racism is the reason for maltreatment, there’s a virtual tidal wave of handwaving and demanding of double-blinded studies to even entertain that possibility. ---
**Author:** ![Becky2844](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Becky2844](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Becky2844)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/145 "2013-08-12T03:12:16Z")
I can’t fathom being worth three billion dollars. It’s like asking me to grasp infinity. Who was the (male) celebrity’s daughter who recently set fire to a $150,000.00 purse and called it “art?” One Christmas I was asked to buy a purse for my greedy SIL because I lived in the city and could get it. I called it “the Looney Burke.” It cost $235.00. It’s all relative, folks. I used to joke to my husband “I can’t believe Oprah hasn’t had a show yet on how to brush your teeth correctly.” But if a person wants to improve the quality of life for others…I needed her long before she went on air. Several years ago Eddie Murphy recounted coming out of a shop, with his head bent down (so they couldn’t see his signature grin), and from a car passing by was yelled _nigger._ That’s not conjecture. That’s reality. To me, if it quacks like a duck—shoot it. And mount it on your “wall.” ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/146 "2013-08-12T04:53:44Z")
> [@JoseB](#): > > Oh boy, are you wrong… Of all the places I’ve been to in the world (and I consider myself to be pretty well-travelled), Switzerland is the most insidiously, died-in-the-wool and unapologetically racist. Xenophobic, I’d say. It’s not about color, it isn’t even about nationality: when you get given the liquid-hydrogen shoulder, it’s usually just on grounds of being “not from around here” (I’ve seen Swiss do it to each other more than once). It does vary by location, though: the Swiss I worked with in Buchs-St. Galen were absolutely lovely, but don’t get me started on Basel. The ones from BSG were clear, concise and willing to listen as well as to explain. The ones from Basel, getting any information was like a bad game of 20 questions. As a German coworker who was leaving shaking the dust off his sandals put it “they’re more German than us Germans!” But I still would think that if the attendant was anything-ist, in the case of a high-end store it’s most likely to be classism. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/147 "2013-08-12T07:53:55Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > I’ve read this a few times to try to grok what it means. > > If you have a display item too fragile/precious to let someone look at, why is it the store? > > I can see if it’s there for decoration and NOT FOR SALE. I’ve been in little mom and pop stores and seen signs that say this. > > Wouldn’t you have some kind of insurance if you sold these kinds of goods? Or a special “rich ass folks” section where rich ass folks can look at your wares? > > I understand some profiling takes place in high end retail. But it’s a dangerous, slippery slope. One of the consequences of acting like an asshole is that people get to derive their own rationale for your assholism. Whether it’s classism, sexism. jingoism, racism… that’s one of the best reasons to not act in that manner. What surprises me (actually, it doesn’t, I’ve seen this movie many times before) is that whenever someone suggests that racism is the reason for maltreatment, there’s a virtual tidal wave of handwaving and demanding of double-blinded studies to even entertain that possibility. Anyone who’s worked in a shop can tell you that there are people who are there to buy, and there are people who just want to browse and handle the merchandise, but don’t want to actually BUY anything. The browsers are doing it as a way to pass the time. They usually CAN afford to spend the money, but they just want to look. And there’s nothing wrong with that. However, it gets damned annoying to show a dozen items, and have the browser handle them, and put back the items. Yeah, it’s part of the job. And there’s a very small chance of a sale, if the browser decides that she just can’t live without that item. Usually, the browser isn’t doing this out of any bad intentions, she’s just bored and wasting time. However, if a display item is fragile or precious, that doesn’t mean that it’s not for sale. It’s just not there for people to handle and possible mess up, just because they are bored. I’m reminded of the time when a bunch of giggling teen girls came into the dress shop where I worked. They wanted to try on wedding veils, which we carried but which we kept in the back room. No, none of them were getting married, they just wanted to play dress up with the wedding veils. Did I mention that they came in, eating ice cream cones, with sticky hands? I refused to bring out the veils, and the owner of the shop backed me up. I don’t know if the shop carried insurance for things like that or not, but the shop owner said that she was ready to stop me if I had gone in the back for the veils. So, the assistant thought that Oprah was a browser, rather than a buyer. I have no idea if this was racially motivated or not. But items on display are not really there for people to just handle. The items are on display so that if you want a handbag, you can see it before you buy it. If the items get handled a lot by browsers, though, then they won’t look brand new…and few buyers will want an item that doesn’t look new. Unless the item is purposely distressed looking. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/148 "2013-08-12T08:18:06Z")
BTW I asked my SO’s daughter who is a fashion designer, and she confirmed one thing that I suspected: when the seriously rich shop for seriously expensive items it would be unusual to just walk into the store; rather they have their people make an appointment with the store. If Ms. Winfrey (who is a celebrity _in one country_) prefers to walk in, in countries where people don’t recognize her on sight, that’s nice and folksy but she will not be admitted when the store is just closing (Paris, 2005) and not treated as a billiardaire (Zurich, 2013). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/149 "2013-08-12T08:21:53Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Being a _mouth breather_ has nothing at all to be with being stupid, but is a medical condition. By classing those with a medical condition as being stupid, you are showing yourself as being insensitive and biased. That’s not what the insult refers to. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/150 "2013-08-12T13:02:24Z")
> [@Mops](#): > > BTW I asked my SO’s daughter who is a fashion designer, and she confirmed one thing that I suspected: when the seriously rich shop for seriously expensive items it would be unusual to just walk into the store; rather they have their people make an appointment with the store. If Ms. Winfrey (who is a celebrity _in one country_) prefers to walk in, in countries where people don’t recognize her on sight, that’s nice and folksy but she will not be admitted when the store is just closing (Paris, 2005) and not treated as a billiardaire (Zurich, 2013). Asking to see a purse that’s up on a shelf is not asking to be treated as a billionaire. Even at Walmart they’ll get things off the shelf for you. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/151 "2013-08-12T14:41:25Z")
If I were Oprah, I woluld have said nothing at first, whipped out my phone and done a quick image search for Oprah Winfrey Forbes and shown the clerk my “Richest People In America” Forbes cover photo with me standing between Warren Buffett and Bill Gates, smiled and said “the bag please”. [http://entertainmentrundown.com/2012/09/19/oprah-winfrey-among-forbes-400/](http://entertainmentrundown.com/2012/09/19/oprah-winfrey-among-forbes-400/) ---
**Author:** ![SC2Maar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@SC2Maar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SC2Maar)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/152 "2013-08-12T15:07:47Z")
Apart from the racism problem, I can’t accept someone pay 77 million dollars for a bag. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/153 "2013-08-12T15:52:12Z")
I just finished scanning an article by Heidi Moore, an economist who writes for a British newspaper. She brings yet another perspective into the issue that none of us have considered. And that’s Oprah’s constant struggle with her weight and how overweight people are generally perceived to be lower class. She mentions that high end shops often keep only smaller sizes to avoid having “undesirables” browsing through the clothing. Obviously a handbag is one size fits all but the principal of classicism is there nonetheless. In the meantime the Boers are being systematically murdered in South Africa and not a peep. Damn those colonialists. They deserve what they get. Now, back to your regular scheduled programming, Oprah. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/154 "2013-08-12T16:03:48Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > In the meantime the Boers are being systematically murdered in South Africa and not a peep. Damn those colonialists. They deserve what they get. We don’t give a shit about anyone getting systemically killed in Africa. You think we should care about the whites getting systemically killed? u rACIST? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/155 "2013-08-12T19:19:15Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Or do you think it was even a case of racism/prejudice? We have no more reason to believe it was a case of racism/prejudice than we have to believe the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/156 "2013-08-12T19:45:14Z")
> [@ducati](#): > > Happened to me a while back. A buddy of mine and I stopped in our local RR dealer to see a new car. We were told we could not even speak to anyone without an appointment and a credit check. > > We come back 3 weeks later in my Corniche (1970 hardtop) and are welcomed like old college buddies. They had a new (to me) 1993 Corniche IV with the glass rear window for under 40k, and let us drive it around with no salesman bothering us. > > Two days later, my wife told me she was with child, and my new toy would have to wait. > I’m still waiting. > > We can’t know the true details, but I suspect if I had asked to see the purse in my broken German, I wouldn’t have gotten to see it either. I suspect more class-ism than racism. No racism in Pretty Woman or Rolls-Royce Atlanta. Just good old-fashioned snobbery. NOKD. I’m white and have had it happen to me with cars, jewelry and clothes. Normally I’m frugal - my daughter says “cheap like in bird” - but we have some money and once in a great while I’ll spend it. I have learned to dress the part of “have money” in order to spend it in any quantity. Now, my husband says you want service - you drive into a Mercedes dealership in your Audi as a 40-something white guy in the middle of the day with nothing to do but shop for cars wearing your Berkshire Hathaway polo shirt. Apparently, they trip over themselves getting you your sparkling water. Oprah does say she was dressed well (and I can’t imagine she is bopping around Switzerland in her Target closeout yoga pants and a t-shirt Stedman got for free at an Oracle convention - which is my normal day wear), but there were obviously not the triggers in place for the clerk to say “I could sell that overpriced purse today!” Whether that was race, or size (because sizeism exists too), not enough or not the right bling, or the lack of a Saudi prince on her arm - it was something ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/157 "2013-08-12T20:39:53Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Whether that was race, or size (because sizeism exists too), not enough or not the right bling, or the lack of a Saudi prince on her arm - it was something Unless, of course, it WASN’T something. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/158 "2013-08-12T21:01:09Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Oprah does say she was dressed well (and I can’t imagine she is bopping around Switzerland in her Target closeout yoga pants and a t-shirt Stedman got for free at an Oracle convention - which is my normal day wear), but there were obviously not the triggers in place for the clerk to say “I could sell that overpriced purse today!” Whether that was race, or size (because sizeism exists too), not enough or not the right bling, or the lack of a Saudi prince on her arm - it was something She was wearing stuff that you could buy on the rack at Macy’s. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/159 "2013-08-12T21:58:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > She was wearing stuff that you could buy on the rack at Macy’s. You take that back! ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821/160 "2013-08-12T22:15:19Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Asking to see a purse that’s up on a shelf is not asking to be treated as a billionaire. Even at Walmart they’ll get things off the shelf for you. Everything on the shelf, including the shelf, wouldn’t cost $35,000. Rich people are right and poorer people are wrong, is that the way it is? The store said it was a misunderstanding. There has been nothing reported so far that leads me to believe this was anything other than a misunderstanding. Maybe snobery on behalf of the clerk AND Oprah. Oprah, or her people, could have made prior arrangements with the store or she could have asked to talk to the manager. Any misunderstanding could have easily been cleared up at the store. Waiting weeks and then playing the race card is suspect and a bit bizarre. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-oprahs-place-racism-in-switzerland/665821.md?page=9)