# What would you have done in this situation? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 13, 2011, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-this-situation/606099 "2011-12-13T23:14:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-this-situation/606099/121 "2011-12-15T14:36:55Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > I hope you know that no jury in the world would convict the guy who runs over someone actually doing this. In fact, they may build him a statue that reenacts the scene. > [@Meyer6](#): > > Bad drivers are annoying, but bad pedestrians aren’t helping anything. This is just jerkish behaviour. Yeah i know it’s jerkish, but like I said this is one of my bugaboos. If someone leaves their car in the lace designated for buses (I’m only gonna be a minute), they find me leaning on their driver’s side door when they get back (I’m only gona be here till my bus comes). When I had the ast on my arm, drivers were very nice and would wait until I reached the sidewalk before driving on. I almost freaked the first time I crossed the street after the cast came off and the driver started the car as soon as I cleared it. Damn near hit me on my ass. I’d forgotten they do that. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-this-situation/606099/122 "2011-12-15T14:56:06Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I timed a light that I thought was insanely long one time, and if I recall correctly, it was 90 seconds long. This was the longest light I ever encountered - I think most lights are 30 seconds or less. You are very fortunate. 3-minute+ stoplights are not uncommon in the Atlanta area. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-this-situation/606099/123 "2011-12-15T15:08:27Z")
We have a 2 minute light on my commute home - if you catch it when it just turns red, settle yourself in and belt out tunes. ---
**Author:** ![YoDoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e68b1a/32.png) [@YoDoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YoDoc)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-this-situation/606099/124 "2011-12-15T15:14:35Z")
The left turn light to get onto my street is awful. I’ve timed several times. Shortest was about 30 seconds, longest was almost seven minutes. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-this-situation/606099/125 "2011-12-15T15:18:58Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I’ll respond to the thread in a bit, maybe not tonight, there’s like 70 posts go to through and the link in the paragraph won’t be kind to my argument. However, I will concede that my previous assumption about reading the magazine was illegal. I wanted to prove a point, so I went Googling specifics I could use in my argument, but came upon [this.](http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/11/california-court-criminalizes-using-cell-phone-while-stopped/) Its an article that doesn’t support me. Its about a man who was pulled over while at a red for using his phone. His arguments were similar to mine, that if the car was stopped, its not a threat. The court disagreed. I am in the wrong > > Though I suppose if I wanted to be semantic about it, I could say that technically, what I was doing was legal. There is no provision against magazine reading, only against certain electronic communication devices. But I’m not going to go there as the intent of the law was obviously violated here, so the law does not support my argument > > Some of you will rightly chastise me for continuing my defense, however, because this is an instance where I disagree with the law. I believe the government has an obligation to protect people, and in trying to cast the widest net, may catch something that doesn’t belong. In this case, I am not saying I’m a judge or an arbiter of the law or anything, but I disagree with their ruling and feel they are mistaken. I feel that it would rightly be too onerous to conceive of every single instance where one is stopped and make a separate law about that. Like the article says: > > “Any mom or dad driving kids to school can expect to stop while parents in cars in front of them are unloading their kids,” Justice James A. Richman wrote in a concurring opinion. “A shopper driving to a store near Lake Merritt in Oakland may have to stop while a gaggle of geese crosses the street. A couple going for a Sunday drive in West Marin County may have to stop for a cattle crossing. And, of course, all of us are expected to stop for red lights, stop signs, crossing trains, and funeral processions. In short, all drivers may, and sometimes must, stop. But they do so while ‘driving.’ Just like defendant.” > > I wouldn’t want laws to cover all those because it would just be a legalistic nightmare. However, I still disagree that once stopped fully at an intersection’s red light, a light that is red for at least a minute, there is no significant safety violation if a person should take his attention away from driving. I simply don’t find their arguments convincing. > > And please don’t play the “You’re not a lawyer are you saying you’re smarter than they are?” card. One doesn’t have to be well versed in law to disagree with it. Hell, there are plenty of cases that’s been reasoned for decades such as abortion, gay marriage, or campaign financing that most of us hold strong views of in one way or another, and we disagree with lawyers and judges who have been practicing laws for years on the other side. So please, none of that, ok? I simply feel its not unsafe to read while at a red light. > > If it was a cow crossing or whatever, maybe. But like the example the man gave, if you were stuck in traffic, lets say at a train crossing, for 5 minutes, do you really think its unsafe if you take your eyes off the non-moving road for a few seconds? Its just different degrees of the same thing. My main objection to most of you is the utter black and white clarity of the situation to you, as if you cannot conceive of one second ever, in the entire country, where taking your eyes off the road at a stopped intersection is ok. To me, that speaks more of an emotional response than a reasoned argument. Any argument you make that reading at a stop light is not distracting is undermined by the fact that you were a) stopped in the middle of a crosswalk; and b) unaware of a pedestrian standing in front of your car until he wrapped on the hood of your car. I suspect that reading at a stoplight is more a symptom than a cause, but everything in your OP suggests that you need to pay better attention when you drive. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-this-situation/606099/126 "2011-12-15T15:36:38Z")
> [@YoDoc](#): > > The left turn light to get onto my street is awful. I’ve timed several times. Shortest was about 30 seconds, longest was almost seven minutes. :eek: We have a light like that, too, to get into one of the malls - it’s a left turn that really no one uses, so it’s contingent on traffic time and the amount of traffic around. ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-this-situation/606099/127 "2011-12-15T16:45:58Z")
I would have simply learned on the horn a second or two, then waved at the guy with a big smile. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-this-situation/606099/128 "2011-12-15T16:56:55Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > A well-thought out post, but my response is that previously you brought up the question of whether the pedestrian was breaking legal and social norms. > > Regardless of the laws that you may argue about, it is clearly not a social norm to read magazines while at stop lights. I can think of instances where I’ve seen someone whip out a newspaper while stuck in traffic or something, but those events are so rare that they are remarkable. You have to give us at least this much: regardless of the legality, it is extremely uncommon to read while in the drivers’ seat. Yes, it is unusual, I’ll give you that, though I don’t think I denied it was unusual so much as it is perfectly safe, at least for me. It just seems to me, reading through those 70 posts, that people are disproportionately angry at what, to me, is a small thing. Name-calling aside, some people are really angry, like REALLY angry. I don’t know where that’s coming from unless you’ve been hit, but even then I doubt their situations were identical. I think they are just transferring some of that anger to me > [@madmonk28](#): > > Any argument you make that reading at a stop light is not distracting is undermined by the fact that you were a) stopped in the middle of a crosswalk; and b) unaware of a pedestrian standing in front of your car until he wrapped on the hood of your car. I suspect that reading at a stoplight is more a symptom than a cause, but everything in your OP suggests that you need to pay better attention when you drive. Well no, I’d have to disagree. The reading came after I stopped, and as I said before, there was no way to back up. The reading is completely independent of the parking, which as I’ve admitted, was a failed attempt to make a yellow. Second, he wasn’t standing there waiting, he walked past and knocked on the car as he walked, he didn’t stop. I was aware people were walking past but obviously I’m not going to pay a random pedestrian any attention whether or not I was reading. > [@Meyer6](#): > > Being in a car stopped at a red light is _nothing_ like being parked in a parking lot, and I’d be very surprised if the average police officer thought they were the same at all. There’s one thing they have in common: same speed. > [@Meyer6](#): > > I know almost everyone bends the rules a bit while driving, but you seem to have an unusually cavalier attitude towards driving. I’ve never in my life heard of someone who thinks their morning commute through a busy urban area is a good time to catch up on some light reading. I don’t think you can accuse me of being cavalier simply because I read. I never said I don’t care about pedestrian safety, I simply don’t believe I’m a threat. You can disagree with that, but the basis of that disagreement is whether or not the threat exists, not whether the threat is severe enough to warrant different actions by me. If I felt I was a threat, I would absolutely try to mitigate it > [@Darth\_Sensitive](#): > > Unless the car was in park, preferably with the key out of the ignition, there isn’t a good excuse for reading a magazine while in control of a deadly weapon. Preferably? So not always? So there are situations where its ok to be behind the wheel with the key in and reading? I’m assuming you know I’m not some undercover cop in a stakeout. Can you tell me what situations those might be? > [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > What stupid question is this Yog? You trespass on the pedestrian zone, which is at the very least negligence, and then, to show how concerned you are about it to the outside world, you go for crosswords at a red light? You’re lucky not to have had a trashcan thrown at your windshield. > > That you would post about it and expect a positive reaction to your behaviour is more than weird. What I find weird is the kind of irrational anger in this post and others. The trespass on the crosswalk is independent of the reading. I wasn’t reading and THEN drifted into the crosswalk. I didn’t make the yellow light, stopped, realized I was in the crosswalk but couldn’t back up, so I pulled out the magazine to wait. There was nothing I could do > [@madmonk28](#): > > Man, you really need to evaluate your driving skills and attitude to the world. You ask what I would do in that situation: > a) I would pay more attention when I drive so that I don’t block crosswalks, this is akin to blocking another lane of traffic; > b) I would abandon the practice of reading at stoplights, I suspect it is a symptom of a general lack of attention while driving that leads you to do things like block crosswalks, and I would bet that you are also engaging in all other kinds of thoughtless and dangerous driving behaviors that you don’t even know you are doing; > C) I would examine my world view and wonder if maybe it is not too egocentric; > > Finally, can I ask if you live in Marylad, by any chance? It’s just a theory I have. a) I try to. The magazine is independent of the driving though b) Maybe that’s true, I don’t know c) I’ve examined it and for this specific case, I don’t believe reading at a red has any affect on others I live in Los Angeles > [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Because in my experience with these people (usually it is red-light texters, not red-light magazine readers, but it’s the same principle) they do _not_ notice when the light has gone green, and so they sit there blocking traffic for the people behind them until they are either honked at or they realize, oh, the light turned green 15 seconds ago when I was in the middle of that fascinating article on Lady Gaga. Of course the OP insists that he is not one of these people and that he _always_ notices immediately when the light has turned green. I suspect that the people sitting behind him in traffic might disagree. And anyway, careful and attentive drivers tend not to stop their cars halfway into the middle of a crosswalk on a regular basis. I don’t have a cell phone so I don’t talk or text anywhere. Nor do I have an iPad or iPod, a bluetooth, or any car gadgets. I have magazines in my car and a stack of CDs. Again, the attentiveness is irrelevent. I was attentive when I got into the crosswalk because I tried to make a yellow light but realized I couldn’t. Attentiveness has nothing to do with me being in the crosswalk. And even if I were one of those people who doesn’t notice the light turning green, I’d be an ass, but not a danger to pedestrians. > [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Also, as a matter of general principle, when you’re behind the wheel of a car, you shouldn’t be doing anything that takes your attention away from driving. If you need to quickly adjust your GPS (I assume that’s what you meant by GIS), OK. If you need to actually consult a map, pull over to a safe spot and do it there. And there’s no reason to sit reading a magazine when you are supposed to be in control of your car. So if its quick, its ok? :dubious: > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > It’s not a huge safety issue. It’s a tiny safety issue, repeated hundreds and hundreds of times. Hundreds and hundreds of times nothing bad will happen. Then, one time, something bad does happen, because someone just HAD to know what People magazine wrote about Brangelina, or what their stupid friend is eating for lunch. > > Can anyone really look back after an accident and say “It was worth it, because I had 10 years worth of stop light magazine reading that I would have missed out on.” Its not a safety issue at all. I’m not moving, so I can’t hit anyone. By definition, someone would have to hit me. In 10 years the only thing I would be looking back on is that time the meteor hit my car while I was catching up on the week’s news. > [@Anaamika](#): > > Oh, and as to what I would have done? I would have been sheepish and embarrassed, and waved an apology. You are not King of the World, you know. Sometimes, you fuck up, and so you apologize. > [@Terraplane](#): > > I would have done my best to communicate an apology. Either with my hands and a contrite look or by saying ‘sorry’ if the window was down. I would do this because it is wrong for me to be stopped in the crosswalk, no matter how I wound up there. I’m not saying I’ve never stopped too far into a crosswalk, I have. If somebody had chosen to harmlessly reproach me for it I’d have recognized it as my fault and been appropriately contrite. I probably would have apologized had I not been so surprised that he did that. This is the first time something like this has ever happened to me > [@EmAnJ](#): > > You know why you don’t read at an intersection? For a few reasons: > > 1. You watch the traffic behind you just in case someone is about to rear end you and you have to option to pull forward and get out of the way > 2. You keep your eyes open for emergency lights - you won’t hear them until they’re almost on you and you need to get the F out of the way NOW > 3. You make yourself aware of what pedestrians and traffic are doing around you so when the light does chage to green, you don’t suddenly jerk in to traffic while that idiot pedestrian is trying to run across the intersection, or that car runs the red. 1. Impossible as there were at least a 3 or 4 cars behind me at the left turn signal 2. Can’t move as there was absolutely no way the emergency vehicle would have gotten through in our side of the street. It would have went to the opposing lane 3. I look up before I move forward, I don’t just hit the gas in the middle of putting down my magazine while transferring my eyes from the page to the road > [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Yup. I nearly had a car hit me because the driver didn’t even glance to the left. I was crossing at a 4-way stop, in the crosswalk. Ahead of me, a car pulled up to the stop sign, barely stopped, and proceeded forward, nearly brushing me or running over my toes. I would have been in front of the bumper if I hadn’t been looking for eye contact or some manner of looking in my direction; when I didn’t see it I slowed my pace a bit. This driver didn’t even have an obvious distraction; she was just staring straight ahead. A stop sign is much different from a red light signal, where you can expect to be there for at least 30 seconds. I don’t read at stop signs so the comparison is moot > [@Bob Ducca](#): > > What magazine were you reading? Last week’s Newsweek > [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > My standard practice is to get in front of the car, then look at the driver and walk back a bit, then start out again, go back again a few times. I can do this little dance at least through two or three green lights. I don’t understand, do you mean you cross the street up to the point where the car’s blocking, do your dance, attempt to cross, move back, move forward and repeat until the driver sees and acknowledges you and backs up? > [@aerodave](#): > > People who do things like read magazines at stop lights understimate the importance of a continuous stream of situational awareness. If you bury your face in a magazine for 30 seconds at a light, and then try to take off in a hurry when the light has turned green because of the impatient people behind you, you’ve lost an amazing amount of information about your surroundings. Are there pedestrians still in either of the two sides of the box you’re about to drive through? Is there guy about to run a red light on the cross street, just waiting to T-bone you? I look up before I hit the gas. > [@elbows](#): > > So, you didn’t really want opinions, at all. It seems what you wanted was agreement. > > It’s pretty clear that most people would feel _they_ were in the wrong and not get butthurt over an inconvenienced pedestrian pointing it out, by tapping the hood of your car, on the way by. > > It’s also pretty clear that most people think reading, while sitting at a light, is douchey. That’s because they’ve been stuck behind some douche who’s missing the advanced green, because he’s catching up on his sports, or texting his high school chums. > > But you just go on defending yourself, even though you only wanted to ‘know how we would feel’! Well, yes and no. My post about simply about what a person would have done in my situation when a guy knocks on your car after parking too far into it. The magazine thing is kind of a hijack, and irrelevant to the topic I think, but I’ll respond anyways. I wanted people to give their opinions on what they would have done in the situation, not what they wished the situation would be. > [@qubed](#): > > I don’t think [that word] means what you think it means. You could easily fall asleep and find your foot off the brake pedal. Just because it’s never happened before doesn’t mean it won’t happen in the future. > > You’re in control of a 4,000 pound death machine, and you don’t seem to understand that. I’m not narcoleptic, I’m not going to fall asleep at a light. And if I were tired enough to actually do that, then it was out of my control that I had to close my eyes. Yes, 4000 stationary pounds. Its about as dangerous as if I was outside standing next to a parked car > [@mnemosyne](#): > > Some people’s feet do slip off the brakes if they are distracted. Someone who is reading who suddenly hears an ambulance right behind them might jerk and move their foot onto the gas before becoming alert enough to realize that, for example, a pedestrian is directly in front of them and they shouldn’t be moving forward. Someone who is reading a magazine could, conceivably, have one of those subscription cards fall out, and the would accidentally remove pressure on the brakes as they reach to pick it back up. The magazine had nothing inside to fall out of an my foot doesn’t slip off the brakes while not performing some twist to get at something in the back seat, which I wasn’t doing. ---
**Author:** ![misterW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@misterW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misterW)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-this-situation/606099/129 "2011-12-15T17:01:39Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Any argument you make that reading at a stop light is not distracting is undermined by the fact that you were a) stopped in the middle of a crosswalk; and b) unaware of a pedestrian standing in front of your car until he wrapped on the hood of your car. I suspect that reading at a stoplight is more a symptom than a cause, but everything in your OP suggests that you need to pay better attention when you drive. What does being stopped in the crosswalk have to do with this? He wasn’t reading while he was driving. The issue at hand is whether or not reading while STOPPED is unsafe. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-this-situation/606099/130 "2011-12-15T17:09:20Z")
> [@misterW](#): > > What does being stopped in the crosswalk have to do with this? He wasn’t reading while he was driving. The issue at hand is whether or not reading while STOPPED is unsafe. The issue is that you should be paying attention while waiting for the light to change. Not being aware of the situation around you even while stopped waiting for a light is a bad habit. You need to know what other cars are doing around you to be a good driver, and just looking up briefly before hitting the gas does not accomplish that. ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-this-situation/606099/131 "2011-12-15T17:32:37Z")
I disagree that the issue of reading while at a stoplight is irrelevant. I’d hazard a wager that the pedestrian wouldn’t have knocked on your car if you hadn’t been reading. Remember: he has no idea how long you have been reading. Unfortunately, it is not uncommon for people to read while their car is in motion. He probably just thought you were another entitled douchebag putting others at risk for your own convenience. I have no way of knowing whether you’re an entitled douchebag. However, I don’t see how your reading at a stoplight is defensible. If people have trouble paying attention to a stoplight while they’re on a cell phone and looking at the stop light, wouldn’t reading a magazine and NOT being able to see the stoplight except through peripheral vision be far worse? You keep saying, “But yeah - _I’m_ in control. I’m not a bad driver because I’m me and I know I’m paying attention.” The only evidence we have that you’re in control and paying attention is that you say so. But the fact remains that you’re still reading a magazine while you’re operating a vehicle. I’d bet that most people who practice distracted driving think that they’re in full control and know what they’re doing more than _those people_ who don’t, when in reality they _are_ one of those people. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-this-situation/606099/132 "2011-12-15T17:32:59Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > But which can be caused to move rather easily - as simply as having a distracted driver’s foot slip off the brake (or a sleepy one…I missed that originally…red lights are NOT the place to take a nap!). > > Were a car to be rear-ended, the driver who stayed alert and had his or her hands on the wheel still has some control and might be able to steer the car into a safer direction (perhaps _away from pedestrians)_. A driver reading a magazine wouldn’t have time to react and the situation could be worse because of it. Its not that easy. You could just as well say that if you’re at attentive at a red light, a sneeze or a cough can move your foot off the brakes. > [@mnemosyne](#): > > Were a car to be rear-ended, the driver who stayed alert and had his or her hands on the wheel still has some control and might be able to steer the car into a safer direction (perhaps _away from pedestrians)_. A driver reading a magazine wouldn’t have time to react and the situation could be worse because of it. Think about the amount of things that needs to happen for this to be relevant to the situation: First, I’d have to be the lead car in an intersection (otherwise I’m stuck between other cars and can’t move anyways). Second, it would have to be moving fast enough to cause me to pitch my car forward. Third, a pedestrian has to be crossing in front of me at just the right moment. Fourth, the pedestrian has to be equally inattentive or have difficulty walking to get out of the way. Fifth, there can’t be more than 2 or 3 cars behind me (otherwise the speeding car would hit them and not really harm my car) OR it has to be a really big truck or something to move several cars. And last, I would actually steer to avoid a pedestrian instead of seeing the speeding car, shouting “Oh shit!” and hitting the gas blindly in an attempt to avoid it. If I see a speeding car about to hit me, I’m going to move forward and steer wildly to get out of the way. So being inattentive by reading a magazine really only harms me and no one else. > [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Mm, right. Like when a foot slips off a pedal or someone rear-ends you hard enough to drive your car forward. My husband avoided consequences of the latter by staying aware at a red light and scanning the environment, plus observing proper stopping distance. The car stopped behind us was driven into our rear bumper by a car that did not even slow for the stopped line of traffic ahead. My husband happened to see the car coming up fast in a glance in the rear view, said “hold on” while temporarily taking his foot off the brake at impact, then reapplying. Because of this, he feels we were the last car in the chain reaction rather than the second-last. If he’d been snug up against the next car, we’d have hit it. If he hadn’t been paying attention, we might have hit it. > > If a pedestrian collapsed in front of the OP’s car or a little kid ran out to grab something that went into the street, he’d never have noticed. That was quick thinking by him. I don’t think I would even know to do that. But if he saw it, why didn’t he avoid it? > [@mnemosyne](#): > > Honestly? When startled, you never, ever jerk your arms or legs? If you reach for something, your weight stays completely distributed the same way, each and every time? If you are tired and close your eyes (the OP said he does that sometimes), it’s not possible at all for you to actually fall asleep and have your tensed muscles relax? Not enough of a jerk to remove my foot from the brake pedals. Especially considering that even if I do move my foot away, I can reapply it in a second or two. The car’s not exactly flying off at 30mph when I take the foot off the brakes so any damage is inconsequential. > [@overlyverbose](#): > > This is a woosh, right? You’ve played video games and eaten rice with chopsticks while in a vehicle you were supposed to be driving? You really don’t understand why people are uncomfortable with this? I was using the eating and games as an example of more egregious things I do in order to mitigate the reading. Compared to the other two, reading is nothing. I didn’t say they shouldn’t be uncomfortable with it. If anything, I am much more dangerous with a game. > [@overlyverbose](#): > > And with respect to the guy in the crosswalk, I don’t think he was wrong at all. Think about it from his perspective: as far as he can see, you’re reading. He doesn’t know how long you’ve been reading, only that you are doing so in a vehicle. A vehicle that is blocking his path in a crosswalk. He assumes you’re distracted and is worried that you will continue to be distracted and potentially injure someone (him or someone else). Sure, he’s probably also pissed that yet another jerk driver is doing something in his car besides driving. So he lets you know by tapping on your car, “Dude, you’re in my way and you should pay attention to what you’re doing.” Now if he had been hopping around on your car like a chimp throwing bananas, then yeah, that’s a little over the top. But getting your attention when you’re acting like a stereotypical entitled driver? Nope, not at all. This one’s on you. I should mention, and maybe this is too late now, but the guy rapped on the hood while at least halfway past my car or more, and didn’t stop. The reason I find that your argument isn’t convincing is that if he was so scared I was going to move, he would have knocked on the car and got my attention and THEN walked past, knowing I acknowledged his presence. He wasn’t doing it to be safe, as he had already crossed my path for the most part (and if my foot jerked off the pedals, he would have been right in front of the car and gotten hit). I feel he was simply expressing his displeasure and wasn’t as concerned about his safety as most people think he was > [@Meyer6](#): > > You want an actual risk of being heavily distracted at a red light? What if a pedestrian is carrying groceries, drops something and stoops to pick it up? What if a pedestrian has a slow, old dog on a leash that is trailing behind them? What if they have a small kid who trips and falls in front of your car? When you look up from your magazine/cell phone/whatever and see that the light is green, are you going to know any of those things are in front of your car? No, you’re just going to hit the gas and be on your merry way. You know, out of all of the arguments so far, this is the only one that I really find to be sort of convincing. I would say to that, however, that I have a low car, a Camry, and don’t drive trucks or SUVs so the possibility of someone in front of my car and me not being able to see them is tiny. But I will try to be more attentive to that in the future > [@enipla](#): > > Take a second or two to look at directions you have writen down? OK. Reading a freaking magazine? How often do people honk at you? I don’t get honked, can’t remember the last time it happened. As I said, I’m good about knowing when a light turns green because I can usually see the light out of the corner of my eyes. And isn’t taking a second or two just as dangerous? After all, using the examples people have been giving me, couldn’t I jerk my foot off in those 2 seconds, or lose track of a dog, or not see a speeding car come after me? I think you overestimate how distracted someone can be with a bit of light reading ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-this-situation/606099/133 "2011-12-15T17:36:22Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Yes, it is unusual, I’ll give you that, though I don’t think I denied it was unusual so much as it is perfectly safe, at least for me. It just seems to me, reading through those 70 posts, that people are disproportionately angry at what, to me, is a small thing. Right, but you are chagrined because you think the pedestrian violated a social norm. I think there’s a pretty good case that the pedestrian’s action was in response to you doing something annoying (blocking part of the crosswalk) and something extraordinary (someone reading while behind the wheel). I understand that you think you weren’t hurting or endangering anyone by reading the magazine – the pedestrian certainly didn’t hurt or endanger anyone by tapping on your hood, right? But things that don’t endanger people can still ruffle feathers and cause bad reactions, n’est pas? Long story short: if you’re bothered by the violation of social norms, then you ought to be thinking about your own behavior as well. (Let me also repeat that I don’t think the pedestrian did anything wrong by tapping on your car hood. I understand you think he violated a social norm, so I’m trying to argue my point using your view of the world. I was taught from the time I started crossing streets to always look at the eyes of a driver to make sure they see you before crossing in front of a car, and if a driver is totally not paying attention, I think a light rap on the car is a perfectly acceptable thing to do in order to emphasize that just because you think you’re not doing anything dangerous, doesn’t mean that other people are able to assess your intentions as it relates to their own physical safety.) ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-this-situation/606099/134 "2011-12-15T17:44:35Z")
> [@overlyverbose](#): > > I disagree that the issue of reading while at a stoplight is irrelevant. I’d hazard a wager that the pedestrian wouldn’t have knocked on your car if you hadn’t been reading. > > Remember: he has no idea how long you have been reading. Unfortunately, it is not uncommon for people to read while their car is in motion. He probably just thought you were another entitled douchebag putting others at risk for your own convenience. If he had a problem mostly with the reading and not the crosswalk-parking, then that would be his problem, not mine. He should not assume things of people because of some preconceived notion. As far as he knows, I could only be pretending to read in order to stare at girl’s asses passing crosswalks without looking like a creep. Or men’s asses. He saw the car and the magazine and assumed something that wasn’t true, that’s on him, not me. > [@overlyverbose](#): > > I have no way of knowing whether you’re an entitled douchebag. However, I don’t see how your reading at a stoplight is defensible. If people have trouble paying attention to a stoplight while they’re on a cell phone and looking at the stop light, wouldn’t reading a magazine and NOT being able to see the stoplight except through peripheral vision be far worse? I think that’s too harsh of a criticism. I never said I was entitled nor have I acted like that, at least I try not to. I didn’t assume people should be fine with my misbehavior. To me, a douchebag is a person who knows he’s wrong but continues to do it. I don’t feel the reading is a safety issue, so at worst, I’m ignorant of the dangers. Frankly, I could be calling all of you out for being paranoid pussies, but I won’t, because some of you have had bad experiences with drivers who are actually inattentive. I am not one of those people, since I don’t read while driving and reject the argument that a stopped car is a danger to anyone. > [@overlyverbose](#): > > You keep saying, “But yeah - _I’m_ in control. I’m not a bad driver because I’m me and I know I’m paying attention.” The only evidence we have that you’re in control and paying attention is that you say so. But the fact remains that you’re still reading a magazine while you’re operating a vehicle. I’d bet that most people who practice distracted driving think that they’re in full control and know what they’re doing more than _those people_ who don’t, when in reality they _are_ one of those people. You should not automatically assume the worst of people or their abilities. I’ve given a brief history of what my driving is like and since I have never hit anyone nor been close to while reading at a stop light, I think that speaks far more of my that the assumption that anyone, or me specifically, would be impaired while reading at a stop light. Some of those people you say are in full control probably are in full control. You’re guilty of stereotyping in the opposite way which is equally bad in an argument > [@Ravenman](#): > > Long story short: if you’re bothered by the violation of social norms, then you ought to be thinking about your own behavior as well. Makes sense I guess. If that’s the case, I’ll accept that he did it because I was reading and crossed over the crosswalk. But I still think his was worse 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-this-situation/606099/135 "2011-12-15T17:55:51Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Its not a safety issue at all. I’m not moving, so I can’t hit anyone. But you will be, when the light turns green. The question is what do you do when the light turns green? > [@](#): > > I look up before I hit the gas. The point is you should be doing more than looking up before you start your car moving. When your car is in motion, you should have a good sense of what is going on around you, not just what is visible the moment you lift your head. It’s called situational awareness. When you hit the gas after reading, you have none, all you know is that there is nothing immediately visible for you to run over. The person with situational awareness is less likely to be surprised by the kid with the ball, or the dog off his leash, or the guy running the red light. This is why I consider your choice a small safety risk, ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-this-situation/606099/136 "2011-12-15T18:01:17Z")
Those old people who end up plowing through a farmers market or gas station wall probably didn’t think they were a danger to anyone either. You are one type of driver that everyone hates. It really doesn’t get much simpler than that. Either grow up or have someone responsible drive you around so you can read and play video games. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-this-situation/606099/137 "2011-12-15T18:07:12Z")
> [@misterW](#): > > What does being stopped in the crosswalk have to do with this? He wasn’t reading while he was driving. The issue at hand is whether or not reading while STOPPED is unsafe. No, the issue was that he is a careless and inconsiderate driver. Being stopped in the crosswalk is an indication of that, reading and being oblivious to the hazard he had created was the second act of stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-this-situation/606099/138 "2011-12-15T18:16:03Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > You are very fortunate. 3-minute+ stoplights are not uncommon in the Atlanta area. > [@Anaamika](#): > > We have a 2 minute light on my commute home - if you catch it when it just turns red, settle yourself in and belt out tunes. > [@YoDoc](#): > > The left turn light to get onto my street is awful. I’ve timed several times. Shortest was about 30 seconds, longest was almost seven minutes. You guys have some seriously long lights. 🙂 My point was just that if you actually time the lights with a watch, they’re usually a lot shorter than you think they are when you’re just sitting there waiting for them. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-this-situation/606099/139 "2011-12-15T18:34:31Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > If he had a problem mostly with the reading and not the crosswalk-parking, then that would be his problem, not mine. He should not assume things of people because of some preconceived notion. He saw the car and the magazine and assumed something that wasn’t true, that’s on him, not me. He probably had a problem with both the reading \*and \*the crosswalk parking. The ‘oh well, his issue!’ attitude you have here is part of what I mean when I say you are cavalier about driving. It’s not just that you apparently stop in crosswalks several times a day, it’s not just that you think a red light is just like a parking lot, it’s that you \*know \*you’re impacting other people and you don’t care at all. As a pedestrian, he has to look out for his own safety, and the consequences of not doing that are far more severe for him than for you. But you want him to ignore an obviously distracted driver because it hurts your feelings when people judge you? > [@YogSosoth](#): > > I don’t think you can accuse me of being cavalier simply because I read. I never said I don’t care about pedestrian safety, I simply don’t believe I’m a threat. \*No \*bad driver believes that they are a threat. I think you are cavalier for multiple reasons, not just the reading thing. You stop in the middle of a crosswalk and you don’t think ‘oops, that was bad, should be more careful’, you think ‘meh, happens all the time, doesn’t matter’. You’re much more interested in dealing with your own boredom than in driving safely. You apparently don’t think that speeding or not wearing a seatbelt are a problem either. You just don’t seem to take the whole thing very seriously at all, and one day that’s going to have dire consequences. Hopefully no for you though, right? Just for some stupid pedestrian who should have been minding his own business. > [@YogSosoth](#): > > I was using the eating and games as an example of more egregious things I do in order to mitigate the reading. Compared to the other two, reading is nothing. I didn’t say they shouldn’t be uncomfortable with it. If anything, I am much more dangerous with a game. Seriously? You’re more dangerous other times, so everyone should be happy when you decide to be slightly less dangerous? “Look officer, I know I killed this guy, but a few years ago I killed \*three \*guys, so you can see that this is nothing”. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-this-situation/606099/140 "2011-12-15T18:41:56Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Take a second or two to look at directions you have writen down? OK. Reading a freaking magazine? How often do people honk at you? > > > [@YogSosoth](#): > > > > I don’t get honked, can’t remember the last time it happened. As I said, I’m good about knowing when a light turns green because I can usually see the light out of the corner of my eyes. And isn’t taking a second or two just as dangerous? After all, using the examples people have been giving me, couldn’t I jerk my foot off in those 2 seconds, or lose track of a dog, or not see a speeding car come after me? I think you overestimate how distracted someone can be with a bit of light reading A second or two to look at directions is not at all as bad as reading. After looking at the directions (or whatever) you can put yourself back in the situation and understand what is going on around you before the light turns green. But then I see that you also play games while driving so I seriously doubt you will every be able to understand. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-this-situation/606099.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-have-done-in-this-situation/606099.md?page=8)