# What would you say if this happened? \[if a Christian dies and meets the God of Islam\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 2, 2006, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-say-if-this-happened-if-a-christian-dies-and-meets-the-god-of-islam/359215 "2006-06-02T22:58:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-say-if-this-happened-if-a-christian-dies-and-meets-the-god-of-islam/359215/41 "2006-06-04T18:23:23Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Nevertheless, the vast majority of Christians do not have a problem with identifying their God as being identical to the God of the Hebrew Bible. Muslims do the same. Right…but none of that requires reciprocation. I mean, a Muslim can say, “I worship the same God as a Christian”, but the Christian can still say “You’re wrong. You don’t”. Or a Christian can say “I worship the same God as a Jew”, but the Jew can say, “You don’t.” So it sort of is a philosophical question. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-say-if-this-happened-if-a-christian-dies-and-meets-the-god-of-islam/359215/42 "2006-06-04T18:24:03Z")
Yes, I think it’s all a matter of standpoint. From my perspective, deities are very much a creation of their believers. The Christians and Muslims have taken the Jewish deity as a starting point and modelled two very different gods from him. Certainly, there are points of identity, as would be expected. But to call them the same God is to ignore and make light of the substantial differences between them, and those differences, after all, are the very bedrock of each of the faiths. To call each God the same God is to reduce the deity to a nebulous concept of ‘Godness’. All very well, but it doesn’t really signify much. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-say-if-this-happened-if-a-christian-dies-and-meets-the-god-of-islam/359215/43 "2006-06-04T18:44:50Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Muslims believe there have been three great prophets: Moses, Jesus and Mohammed. Noah and Abraham are generally mentioned in the same breath as the above three. In addition to those five biggies, Islam recognizes a whole slew of prophets generally - the Qur’an specifically lists 25, including the above. - Taamerlane ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-say-if-this-happened-if-a-christian-dies-and-meets-the-god-of-islam/359215/44 "2006-06-04T19:34:27Z")
Christianity dealt with this with Marcion who rejected the entire Hebrew Bible, and declared that the God of the Hebrew Bible was a lesser demiurge, who had created the earth, but was also the source of evil and antogonisitc toward the SUpreme God the Father (of Chrisitanity). Mainstream Christianity utterly & completely rejected this, excommunicated Marcion and (eventually) stamped out this “wrong belief” [or heresy] - really after the “are we a Jewish Sect or something different?” question, it was the earliest intellectual/theological question Christians had to contend with among themselves. It is safe to say if you are in any Catholic, Traditional or fundamentalist Protestant, or a member of an Orthodox Christian Community today your sect understands the Jewish Yahweh to equal God the Father [cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcionism) [cite](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09645c.htm) ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-say-if-this-happened-if-a-christian-dies-and-meets-the-god-of-islam/359215/45 "2006-06-04T22:00:46Z")
**DtC** The issue is that Jesus was (arguably) predicted in the Torah, I don’t think the Bible or the Torah makes any kind of prediction of Mohamad or Islam, I could be wrong and have started a thread to help find out. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-say-if-this-happened-if-a-christian-dies-and-meets-the-god-of-islam/359215/46 "2006-06-04T22:43:56Z")
It doesn’t predict Jesus either. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-say-if-this-happened-if-a-christian-dies-and-meets-the-god-of-islam/359215/47 "2006-06-04T22:46:21Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Right…but none of that requires reciprocation. I mean, a Muslim can say, “I worship the same God as a Christian”, but the Christian can still say “You’re wrong. You don’t”. Or a Christian can say “I worship the same God as a Jew”, but the Jew can say, “You don’t.” > > So it sort of is a philosophical question. I disagree. If a Muslim says he worships the God of Abraham, no Christian has the right to tell him he doesn’t. If anyone’s off the reservation, it’s the religion which deified a human being. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-say-if-this-happened-if-a-christian-dies-and-meets-the-god-of-islam/359215/48 "2006-06-04T22:49:15Z")
I should also add that the OP was essentially what would happen to Christian who got to heaven and discovered that Islam was the One True Religion. If that were the case, then the Muslim view that their God is the God of Moses and Jesus would also be true. Christian opinion would necessarily be irrelevant in that scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-say-if-this-happened-if-a-christian-dies-and-meets-the-god-of-islam/359215/49 "2006-06-04T22:52:30Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > **DtC** The issue is that Jesus was (arguably) predicted in the Torah, I don’t think the Bible or the Torah makes any kind of prediction of Mohamad or Islam, I could be wrong and have started a thread to help find out. One more thing, for the record. The Torah only refers to the Pentateuch, not the entire Hebrew Bible. There are no Messianic prophecies in the Torah at all, much less prophecies of Jesus. The Hebrew Bible also says that the Messiah is not God. FYI. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-say-if-this-happened-if-a-christian-dies-and-meets-the-god-of-islam/359215/50 "2006-06-05T08:23:20Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > If a Christian went to Heaven and discovered that Islam was the true religion, he would not be automatically consigned to Hell for being a Christian as long as he had led a righteous life and worshipped God the best as he could. Worshipping Jesus is seen as an error but not a fatal one unless you have been fully instructed in Islam and deliberately choose to reject it after having a full understanding of its precepts. For the most part, worshipping Jesus is considered to be a mistake of ignorance not malice. Islam does not teach that you have to be Muslim to go to Heaven. Interesting. Could you give me a link to this statement? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-say-if-this-happened-if-a-christian-dies-and-meets-the-god-of-islam/359215/51 "2006-06-05T08:55:48Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Isn’t there one or two Christian denominations that don’t consider Jesus to be God Incarnate? Any denomination that signs up to the Nicene Creed does. Otherwise, [Professor Joad]“it all depends on what you mean by ‘Christian’.”[/PJ] Btw, I thought _Allah_ meant “the One”? (Paging **Johanna** …) ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-say-if-this-happened-if-a-christian-dies-and-meets-the-god-of-islam/359215/52 "2006-06-05T11:16:53Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The Hebrew Bible also says that the Messiah is not God. FYI. Technically, shouldn’t that read “The Hebrew Bible also does not say that the Messiah is God”? The use of “El-Gibbor” (“Mighty God”) in Isaiah 9:5 and the attribution of Messiah’s actions to “The LORD” in other Messianic predictions are regarded by us C’tians as at least hints that there is more to Messiah than just a special human being. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-say-if-this-happened-if-a-christian-dies-and-meets-the-god-of-islam/359215/53 "2006-06-05T11:31:37Z")
> [@Sage Rat](#): > > I had thought that the Jesus’ teachings were part of Islam? (I.e. that Mohammed was the next profit after Jesus.) As such, needing to follow the teachings of Jesus is no issue to be saved is equally true for any Muslim as a Christian. Assuming that Jesus the Profit actually said that of course and it wasn’t words put in his mouth by his disciples. Ah, so Islam goes like this: [ol]Jesus [li] ???[/li] Profit![/ol] ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-say-if-this-happened-if-a-christian-dies-and-meets-the-god-of-islam/359215/54 "2006-06-05T14:03:37Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I disagree. If a Muslim says he worships the God of Abraham, no Christian has the right to tell him he doesn’t. If anyone’s off the reservation, it’s the religion which deified a human being. Well, while I agree with you that the conceptions of “God” in Judaism and Islam are a lot more similar than either is to Christianity, I don’t think it’s a matter of “right”. I don’t think any religion is required to consider the faith claims of another religion true. I mean, Christianity is as free to consider Islam wrong, deluded, or evil (and the Muslim conception of God as wrong, deluded, or evil), as Islam is to consider Christianity or its conception of God as wrong, deluded, or evil. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-say-if-this-happened-if-a-christian-dies-and-meets-the-god-of-islam/359215/55 "2006-06-05T14:43:10Z")
> [@gum](#): > > Interesting. > Could you give me a link to this statement? > Thanks. Which statement? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-say-if-this-happened-if-a-christian-dies-and-meets-the-god-of-islam/359215/56 "2006-06-05T15:02:16Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Technically, shouldn’t that read “The Hebrew Bible also does not say that the Messiah is God”? Not really. The Hebrew Bible says the Messiah is a human being, the “seed of David,” and therefore cannot be God. The idea of an incarnation is non-existent in either Hebrew scripture or Jewish tradition and is actually incompatible with Jewish theology. > [@](#): > > The use of “El-Gibbor” (“Mighty God”) in Isaiah 9:5 and the > attribution of Messiah’s actions to “The LORD” in other Messianic predictions are > regarded by us C’tians as at least hints that there is more to Messiah than just a special human being. Isaiah 9:5-6 is about Hezekiah. The honorific _El-Gibbor_ was not intended to be a literal claim that Hezekiah was God, but a figurative way to claim that God’s power was manifested through his reign (especially as it pertained to “miraculous” end to the siege of Sennacherib). “Lord” just means “master” and is applied to kings all the time. It’s used in reference to David, for instance. That doesn’t mean that anyone thought David was God. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-say-if-this-happened-if-a-christian-dies-and-meets-the-god-of-islam/359215/57 "2006-06-05T15:17:22Z")
**Gum** , here are the quotes from the Quran: _Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve._ (2:62) _Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve._ (5:69) Here is a statement of official doctrine from one online [Islam FAQ](http://pub9.bravenet.com/faq/show.php?usernum=723065514&catid=2168) (there are several that all say the same thing). > [@](#): > > Only people who received true and complete information about Islam and rejected it then died in that state will go to Hell. People who never heard about Islam or received only a distorted picture of it will be tested by God. Those who had faith in God and did right will go to Paradise and those who rejected faith in God and did wrong will go to Hell. Hopefully **Tamerlane** can chime in here too. He knows more about Islam than I do. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-say-if-this-happened-if-a-christian-dies-and-meets-the-god-of-islam/359215/58 "2006-06-05T15:23:20Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Any denomination that signs up to the Nicene Creed does. Otherwise, [Professor Joad]“it all depends on what you mean by ‘Christian’.”[/PJ] > > Btw, I thought _Allah_ meant “the One”? (Paging **Johanna** …) ‘The God’. Usually etymologized as a contraction of _al-_ ‘the’ and _ilâh_ ‘god’. Although there are other, more fanciful etymologies proposed in classical Sufi literature, like _Allâh_ is derived from _walah_ ‘bewilderment’. Classical Sufi literature also includes symbolic poetry like “The glass is thin and the wine is clear. It looks like all glass and no wine, or all wine and no glass” about the closeness of the relation between the Sufi’s heart and Allah. Barbara G. Walker says _Allâh_ is a masculinized form of the Goddess name _Allât_ (Qur’ân 53:19); the ending _-t_ is a feminine gender marker in Semitic and other Afro-Asiatic languages. It could go either way: Allâh could be a masculinized form of Allât, Allât could be a feminized form of Allâh, or perhaps neither form is prior and they co-originated, since divine male-female couples were a feature of ancient Semitic paganism. Leaving aside the definite article, Walker says _Lât_ is related to the Anatolian Goddess name Leto known from Greek mythology. She might have something there, but then–because _al-Lâtu_is a Mother Goddess–she connects it etymologically with Italian _latte_ ‘milk’, which is the worst howler I’ve seen in all my born days of Neopaganism _and_ etymology. Latte, sheesh. :rolleyes: It’s decaf for you from now on, Barb. Actually, ‘the One’ is a translation of two from the list of 99 Names: _al-Ahad_ and _al-Wâhid_. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-say-if-this-happened-if-a-christian-dies-and-meets-the-god-of-islam/359215/59 "2006-06-05T15:36:03Z")
Much obliged. ---
**Author:** ![Will\_Repair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@Will\_Repair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Will_Repair)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2006, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-say-if-this-happened-if-a-christian-dies-and-meets-the-god-of-islam/359215/60 "2006-06-13T20:03:14Z")
> [@steven01](#): > > “OK, what would you say if you lived a long and virtuous life and maintained you’re faith in Jesus. After you die you meet God and He says to you “Though you have done some things right, you failed to see Mohammed as My true messanger and see that My name is Allah. Face the fire.” Then a trapdoor opens and you fall into the fiery horrors” > So the question is, if you were a vehement christian with similar views to Elroy, what would you say to God before said fiery horrors ensued? Thanks. According to the Koran, all who believe in One God and do good works attain paradise. The name of The God, God, Dios, Dieu, Allah, Trinity, doesn’t matter. Also, the Koran says we are not to favor any one prophet (I know, I know, some Muslims do.) So, the only way your straw man would burn is if he caused mischief and/or worshiped many gods. (And don’t ask me about Christians who believe worship a son of God. Thank God that’s not my judgement call. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-say-if-this-happened-if-a-christian-dies-and-meets-the-god-of-islam/359215.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-say-if-this-happened-if-a-christian-dies-and-meets-the-god-of-islam/359215.md?page=4)