# What written language conveys the most information with the least characters? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 3, 2007, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-written-language-conveys-the-most-information-with-the-least-characters/398507 "2007-04-03T01:17:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2007, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-written-language-conveys-the-most-information-with-the-least-characters/398507/41 "2007-04-08T01:40:46Z")
[QUOTE=Napier] I think these are the two logical extremes: A picture is worth a thousand words. Or, more accurately, a well done painting or photograph can convey a great deal, albeit with ambiguity. If characters or ideographs or symbols can be carried to an extreme, let the picture be one character. For that matter, I read somewhere that we interpret written text in English a word at a time when we read, or even read some phrases without parsing the words per se. Not surprising - you read “you” so many times in a lifetime that you can easily recognize the shape of the word itself. [QUOTE=Napier] As you can see below, we really don’t have to read each letter in the correct order to understand the meaning of a sentence. O lny srmat poelpe can raed tihs. cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn’t mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt! ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2007, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-written-language-conveys-the-most-information-with-the-least-characters/398507/42 "2007-04-08T12:44:09Z")
I think mathematical equations convey a huge amount of information, with very few characters: 2 X 2= 4 Think about it! ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2007, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-written-language-conveys-the-most-information-with-the-least-characters/398507/43 "2007-04-08T15:10:16Z")
**Mangosteen** : One can just as easily find a string of English words for which that trick doesn’t work at all. ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2007, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-written-language-conveys-the-most-information-with-the-least-characters/398507/44 "2007-04-08T15:52:31Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] **Mangosteen** : One can just as easily find a string of English words for which that trick doesn’t work at all. [/QUOTE] Monty I’m not sure why you are characterizing the Cambridge study as a “trick”. Their point was that only the first and last letters of the words in a sentence need to be in the correct order. I could see that a sentence with a few words that were unusually long might be a little difficult to decipher, but most of the time it works. Lets look at my reply to you. I’m not srue why you are crterahcaiinzg the Cmraibdge sdtuy as a “ticrk”. Tiher pinot was taht olny the frsit and lsat lterets of the wrods in a strecnee need to be in the crrocet odrer. I culod see taht a srtceene wtih a few wrods taht wree usunlaluy lnog mhgit be hrad to dhepceir, but msot of the tmie it wrkos. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2007, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-written-language-conveys-the-most-information-with-the-least-characters/398507/45 "2007-04-08T15:57:27Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] **Mangosteen** : One can just as easily find a string of English words for which that trick doesn’t work at all. [/QUOTE] That is not clearly true. Can you provide an example of English prose “scrambled” in this way which is hard to make out? It occurs to me you may have in mind, not prose, but literally just a string of random words. (Your post does say just “a string of words” after all.) But providing an example like that would not damage **Mangosteen** ’s point. I take his/her point to be about what _generally_ happens when we’re reading words in a _normal_ context. It would be silly to claim that we _never_ decipher a word by taking into account the order in which its letters appear. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2007, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-written-language-conveys-the-most-information-with-the-least-characters/398507/46 "2007-04-08T16:00:46Z")
[QUOTE=Mangosteen] Monty I’m not sure why you are characterizing the Cambridge study as a “trick”. Their point was that only the first and last letters of the words in a sentence need to be in the correct order. I could see that a sentence with a few words that were unusually long might be a little difficult to decipher, but most of the time it works. Lets look at my reply to you. I’m not srue why you are crterahcaiinzg the Cmraibdge sdtuy as a “ticrk”. Tiher pinot was taht olny the frsit and lsat lterets of the wrods in a strecnee need to be in the crrocet odrer. I culod see taht a srtceene wtih a few wrods taht wree usunlaluy lnog mhgit be hrad to dhepceir, but msot of the tmie it wrkos. [/QUOTE] You misspelled “sntceene.” (And BTW it really tripped up my reading of the passage–more so than would have the corresponding “normal” misspelling “senterce” in a “normal” English text. This goes to show, I think, that both context and letter-order are important disambiguators. But your main point is correct: the “first thing we do” when reading is just take in the letters in a word as an unordered group except for the first and last letter. I wonder if anyone’s tried scrambling Chinese characters in a similar fashion to see what happens.) -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![WoodenTaco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/45deac/32.png) [@WoodenTaco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WoodenTaco)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2007, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-written-language-conveys-the-most-information-with-the-least-characters/398507/47 "2007-04-08T16:09:52Z")
[QUOTE=Sage Rat] Given all the commas and semicolons in the Chinese text, I’m personally guessing that the writing is skipping a lot of assumed words. Walk,dog,tuesday;god,punish,not. -\> Make sure to walk the dog on Tuesday, or else god will punish you. [/QUOTE] Right, but they are only “assumed words” if you are thinking in the mindset of an English-speaker ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2007, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-written-language-conveys-the-most-information-with-the-least-characters/398507/48 "2007-04-08T18:20:04Z")
[QUOTE=Hari Seldon] (qu’est c’est que ca has fragments of eight words compressed into five syllables) [/QUOTE] _Cela n’est pas français._ ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-written-language-conveys-the-most-information-with-the-least-characters/398507/49 "2007-04-09T03:04:23Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] I think mathematical equations convey a huge amount of information, with very few characters: 2 X 2= 4 Think about it! [/QUOTE] Good point. To explain the statement, “the topological product of compact spaces is compact” would take the better part of a book. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-written-language-conveys-the-most-information-with-the-least-characters/398507/50 "2007-04-09T15:11:45Z")
[QUOTE=Hari Seldon] Good point. To explain the statement, “the topological product of compact spaces is compact” would take the better part of a book. [/QUOTE] Okay, I’ll bite. (Though I know you weren’t fishing.) How do you multiply spaces? -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-written-language-conveys-the-most-information-with-the-least-characters/398507/51 "2007-04-09T16:15:03Z")
[Here](http://www.cs.miami.edu/students/strac/topology/notes01.html) is something I just found that’s understandable (to me at least), **Frylock**. Check out Definition 1.10. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-written-language-conveys-the-most-information-with-the-least-characters/398507/52 "2007-04-09T16:36:49Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] [Here](http://www.cs.miami.edu/students/strac/topology/notes01.html) is something I just found that’s understandable (to me at least), **Frylock**. Check out Definition 1.10. [/QUOTE] > [@that site](#): > > Defintion 1.10: E x F, made into a topological space as just described, is called the topological product of E and F. Example: if E = F = the real line, then E x F is the plane with its usual topology as Euclidean 2-space. If E is Euclidean 2-space and F is the real line, E x F is Euclidean 3-space. m-space, n-space is (m + n)-space. I almost feel like I should have known that without asking. My excuse is, I was visualizing weird complicated spaces, not thinking about what it would (sort of obviously) mean to multiply flat spaces. Thanks for the link! I’m interested to know what happens when you multiply a donut by a 4-plane. 🙂 A 6-donut? -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-written-language-conveys-the-most-information-with-the-least-characters/398507/53 "2007-04-09T18:19:59Z")
Not exactly a written language in the context of the OP, but American Sign Language is very compact and strongly resembles Chinese in its absence of many “filler” words… most prepositions and modifiers are either implied by context, or integral to the particular hand form. So if one were to consider a particular hand form as equating to a single word, then I think ASL may be a contender. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2007, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-written-language-conveys-the-most-information-with-the-least-characters/398507/54 "2007-04-09T22:14:24Z")
ASL _is_ a written language. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2007, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-written-language-conveys-the-most-information-with-the-least-characters/398507/55 "2007-04-10T12:47:27Z")
[QUOTE=Mangosteen] I’m not sure why you are characterizing the Cambridge study as a “trick”. [/QUOTE] Maybe because [there was no Cambridge study](http://www.mrc-cbu.cam.ac.uk/~mattd/Cmabrigde/)? Or because they carefully rearranged the letters to make parsing easier? Or because none of the rearranged words made other words? Or because the sentences contained a lot of 2 and 3-letter words (no change) and 4-letter words (the only change is swapping the 2nd and 3rd letters)? Or because the rearranging doesn’t make the word look like it would be pronounced differently? Notice how “phenomenal” turned into “phaonmneal” and not “pnnamoheal”? And how the words at the beginning of the sentence where you need context changed less than the words near the end of the sentence, where you can guess at what’s coming? Yes, there’s a real phenomenon there, but falsely attributing it to a Cambridge study and exaggerating the results doesn’t do much for fighting ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2007, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-written-language-conveys-the-most-information-with-the-least-characters/398507/56 "2007-04-10T15:07:26Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] ASL _is_ a written language. [/QUOTE] :smack: (that’s ASL for ‘doh!’). Cool site, color me informed! ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2007, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-written-language-conveys-the-most-information-with-the-least-characters/398507/57 "2007-04-10T15:21:05Z")
[QUOTE=InvisibleWombat] Maybe because [there was no Cambridge study](http://www.mrc-cbu.cam.ac.uk/~mattd/Cmabrigde/)? Or because they carefully rearranged the letters to make parsing easier? Or because none of the rearranged words made other words? Or because the sentences contained a lot of 2 and 3-letter words (no change) and 4-letter words (the only change is swapping the 2nd and 3rd letters)? Or because the rearranging doesn’t make the word look like it would be pronounced differently? Notice how “phenomenal” turned into “phaonmneal” and not “pnnamoheal”? And how the words at the beginning of the sentence where you need context changed less than the words near the end of the sentence, where you can guess at what’s coming? Yes, there’s a real phenomenon there, but falsely attributing it to a Cambridge study and exaggerating the results doesn’t do much for fighting ignorance. [/QUOTE] Nice link there! I shall show it to everyone I know. Also, IMO, there was no need for your final paragraph. The idea that there was a study at Cambridge about this etc. is so well-entrenched that people who perpetuate the claim are generally to be excused. What reason did **Mangetout** have _not_ to think it was true that there was such a study done at that University? Very little. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2007, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-written-language-conveys-the-most-information-with-the-least-characters/398507/58 "2007-04-11T01:43:22Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] Nice link there! I shall show it to everyone I know. Also, IMO, there was no need for your final paragraph. The idea that there was a study at Cambridge about this etc. is so well-entrenched that people who perpetuate the claim are generally to be excused. What reason did **Mangetout** have _not_ to think it was true that there was such a study done at that University? Very little. [/QUOTE] I didn’t mean that to be a potshot at **Mangetout**. I just get upset with people who feel the need to doctor up an urban legend email before they forward it. The original was cute. Someone along the way decided to add the Cambridge bit to it. Forwarding along a U.L. email can be attributed to a desire to spread what you honestly believe to be valid facts–you’re just too lazy to verify them. Actually MODIFYING a U.L. email to try and make it more believable is despicable. It’s propagating a problem and creating new ignorance along the way. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2007, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-written-language-conveys-the-most-information-with-the-least-characters/398507/59 "2007-04-11T02:27:20Z")
Mathematics is indeed concise, but has difficulty in expressing “The epistemological sense in which meta-semantic structure influences how the human mind formulates ideas deserves more consideration than has heretofore been given it” or “Greater love hath no man than this: that he lay down his life for his friends.” Let us not fall into the trap of mistaking symbology for language. Either the _Letters_ of Tolkien or Humphrey Carpenter’s biography of him has a photo of an inscription on a book’s frontispiece, in which Tolkien, for a lark, wrote a note to the book’s recipient in English written in his Elvish runes. PECTOPAH is a perfectly good word in Russian – but also in English – it’s pronounced “restauran’” (the final T being silent). ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2007, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-written-language-conveys-the-most-information-with-the-least-characters/398507/60 "2007-04-14T18:42:47Z")
Old thread, I know, but I thought of it when I got this error message from Google Adsense. > [@](#): > > The Google AdSense website is temporarily unavailable. Please try back later. > We apologize for any inconvenience. > > Google AdSense の web サイトは一時的にご利用いただけません。後で再度お試しくださいますようお願いいたします。 > お手数をおかけいたしますことをお詫びいたします。 > > Die Google AdSense-Website ist vorübergehend nicht verfügbar. Bitte versuchen Sie es später noch einmal. > Wir entschuldigen uns für eventuell enstandene Unannehmlichkeiten. > > Le site Google AdSense est temporairement indisponible. Veuillez réessayer plus tard. > Nous vous prions de nous excuser pour le désagrément occasionné. > > El sitio web de AdSense de Google no se encuentra disponible en estos momentos. Por favor, inténtelo de nuevo más tarde. > Disculpe las molestias. > > Google AdSense 网站暂时无法浏览。请您稍候再尝试。 > 对于造成您的不便我们感到抱歉。 > > Il sito AdSense di Google è temporaneamente non disponibile. La preghiamo di provare più tardi. > Ci scusiamo per il disagio. > > De website van Google AdSense is tijdelijk niet beschikbaar. Probeert u het later opnieuw. > Onze excuses voor het eventuele ongemak. > > Google AdSense Sayfası geçici olarak hizmet dışıdır. Lütfen, daha sonra tekrar deneyin. > Bu geçici sorundan dolayı özür dileriz. > > O site do Google AdSense não está disponível no momento. Tente novamente mais tarde. > Pedimos desculpas pelo inconveniente. > > The Google AdSense website is temporarily unavailable. Please try back later. > We apologise for any inconvenience. > > Witryna programu Google AdSense jest chwilowo niedostępna. Prosimy spróbuj później. > Przepraszamy za wszelkie niedogodności. > > Веб-сайт Google AdSense временно недоступен. Попробуйте, пожалуйста, еще раз через несколько минут. > Мы приносим свои извинения за причиненные неудобства. > > Google AdSense webbplats är för tillfället inte tillgänglig. Försök igen senare. > Vi ber om ursäkt för eventuellt besvär. > > Google AdSense-webstedet er ikke tilgængeligt i øjeblikket. Prøv igen senere. > Vi beklager ulejligheden. > > Google AdSense 웹사이트를 일시적으로 사용하실 수 없습니다 . 나중에 다시 시도해 보십시오 . > 불편을 끼쳐드려 죄송합니다 . > > Google AdSense-webområdet er midlertidig utilgjengelig. Prøv igjen senere. > Vi beklager eventuelle problemer dette medfører. > > Google AdSense 網站暫時無法流覽。請您侍候再嘗試。 > 對於造成您的不便我們感到抱歉。 > > A Google AdSense oldal jelenleg nem elérhető. Kérjük, látogasson vissza később. > Elnézést kérünk az esetleges kellemetlenségekért. > > Google AdSense –sivusto ei väliaikaisesti ole saatavilla. Yritä myöhemmin uudelleen. > Pahoittelemme tämän aiheuttamaa hankaluutta. > > Stránka Google AdSense je dočasně nedostupná. Zkuste to později. > Omlouváme se za způsobené nepříjemnosti. > > Stránka Google AdSense je dočasne nedostupná. Skúste neskôr, prosím. > Ospravedlňujeme sa za spôsobené nepríjemnosti. > > Google AdSense sučelje trenutno je nedostupno. Molimo Vas pokušajte kasnije. > Ispričavamo se za neugodnosti. > > إن موقع Google AdSense غير متوفر وقتيا. يرجى تكرار المحاولة لاحقا. نعتذر عن أي إزعاج. > > אתר Google AdSense איננו זמין כרגע. אנו מצטערים על אי הנוחות. אנא נסה שנית מאוחר יותר. > > Google AdSense уебсайта е временно недостъпен. Моля опитайте по-късно. Извиняваме се за неудобството. > > Η ιστοσελίδα του Google AdSense δεν είναι διαθέσιμη προς το παρόν. Παρακαλώ δοκιμάστε αργότερα. Ζητούμε συγγνώμη για την ενόχληση. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-written-language-conveys-the-most-information-with-the-least-characters/398507.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-written-language-conveys-the-most-information-with-the-least-characters/398507.md?page=4)