# Whatever happened to Lt. Calley? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 8, 2013, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whatever-happened-to-lt-calley/673424 "2013-11-08T14:45:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hottius\_Maximus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hottius\_Maximus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hottius_Maximus)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whatever-happened-to-lt-calley/673424/1 "2013-11-08T14:45:32Z")
I’ve heard rumors over the years, but I am curious. Does anybody know? ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whatever-happened-to-lt-calley/673424/2 "2013-11-08T15:08:16Z")
> **[William Calley | After release](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Calley#After_release)** > > On May 15, 1976, Calley married Penny Vick, the daughter of a Columbus, Georgia, jewelry store owner. Judge J. Robert Elliott attended the wedding. The couple had one son and divorced in 2005 or 2006. Calley worked at his father-in-law's store and became a gemologist and obtained his real estate license, which had initially been denied due to his criminal record. During his divorce, Calley claimed to be suffering from prostate cancer and gastrointestinal problems leaving him w On August 19, 2009,... ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whatever-happened-to-lt-calley/673424/3 "2013-11-08T18:28:43Z")
[hijack] Why wasn’t Capt. Medina as the ring leader found guilty? Politics? Lack of evidence? [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whatever-happened-to-lt-calley/673424/4 "2013-11-08T18:46:27Z")
There’s the Doonesbury cartoon about BD telling Vietnam war stories to fellow Gulf War I combatants: Soldier: “You mean you shot your own officers??” BD: “Just the dumb ones. Mostly lieutenants.” ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whatever-happened-to-lt-calley/673424/5 "2013-11-08T18:57:36Z")
From da Wiki: > [@](#): > > In October 2007, Calley agreed to be interviewed by the UK newspaper the _Daily Mail_ to discuss the massacre, saying, “Meet me in the lobby of the nearest bank at opening time tomorrow, and give me a certified cheque for $25,000, then I’ll talk to you for precisely one hour.” When the journalist arrived to question Calley without a cheque, Calley left. Lucky journalist. _Lucky_ journalist. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whatever-happened-to-lt-calley/673424/6 "2013-11-08T19:05:40Z")
Huh. Also in the wiki entry is this peculiar sentence: > [@](#): > > Later in 1974, President Nixon tacitly issued Calley a limited Presidential Pardon. How do you “tacitly” issue a pardon? ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whatever-happened-to-lt-calley/673424/7 "2013-11-10T14:05:28Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Huh. Also in the wiki entry is this peculiar sentence: > > How do you “tacitly” issue a pardon? I remember hearing about that in 1974. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whatever-happened-to-lt-calley/673424/8 "2013-11-10T14:16:59Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Huh. Also in the wiki entry is this peculiar sentence: > > How do you “tacitly” issue a pardon? Yeah, not very clear. I think it means Nixon did not issue a pardon as such but gave orders which softened the penalty and amounted in fact to a pardon. > [@](#): > > [http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/general-article/mylai-biographies/#Calley](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/general-article/mylai-biographies/#Calley) > > Lieutenant Calley was the first to be court-martialed beginning on November 10, 1970, providing the country with the first public insight into the operation at My Lai. After more than four months of trial and almost 80 hours of deliberation, the jury found Calley guilty of the premeditated murder of 22 civilians. His life sentence, however, was met with nationwide protest, most of whom believed that Calley showed a courageous allegiance to his country. The “Free Calley” movement painted the Lieutenant as the scapegoat for the government’s failed policies in Vietnam and influenced the political atmosphere in Washington with effective protests. “The Battle Hymn of Lt. Calley” sold 200,000 copies, 5,000 telegrams were sent to the White House on the subject, flags in Florida were lowered to half mast, Army veterans turned in their medals, and car bumper stickers across the country demanded, “Free Calley.” > > Under mounting pressure from the public, President Richard Nixon intervened on April 1, 1971, and ordered Lieutenant Calley released from the army stockade and placed under house arrest. Calley’s sentence was reduced the following August, and reduced again in April of 1974 when he returned to the stockade. When he was released on parole on November 9, 1974, Calley had served a total of four months in a stockade, despite being found guilty for the deaths of 22 Vietnamese civilians. Not a proud moment in America’s history. ---
**Author:** ![Jake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whatever-happened-to-lt-calley/673424/9 "2013-11-10T14:35:12Z")
In war, the fear from being shot at and the constant fear of being killed by the enemy, and also being shouted at by commanding officers to obey orders or be Court Marshaled, well… I think one just had to be there and experience what Calley had to go through to pass an honest judgement. Ex-Army Sergeant, Jake ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whatever-happened-to-lt-calley/673424/10 "2013-11-10T14:43:28Z")
That’s a good reason to avoid starting wars and invading countries. But before the war we always hear how it’s going to be nice and clean and cheap, and after it’s started all we hear is excuses. Excuses for Americans who commit atrocities and human rights abuses because the other side gets no sympathy for their stress. They just get to be killed. That there should be sympathy and apology in America for what Calley did is a disgrace. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whatever-happened-to-lt-calley/673424/11 "2013-11-11T04:17:21Z")
> [@Jake](#): > > In war, the fear from being shot at and the constant fear of being killed by the enemy, and also being shouted at by commanding officers to obey orders or be Court Marshaled, well… I think one just had to be there and experience what Calley had to go through to pass an honest judgement. > Ex-Army Sergeant, > Jake Like the six officers on the court-martial jury, five of whom served in Vietnam, who convicted him of premeditated murder of 23 Vietnamese? ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whatever-happened-to-lt-calley/673424/12 "2013-11-11T05:08:44Z")
> [@Jake](#): > > In war, the fear from being shot at and the constant fear of being killed by the enemy, and also being shouted at by commanding officers to obey orders or be Court Marshaled, well… I think one just had to be there and experience what Calley had to go through to pass an honest judgement. > Ex-Army Sergeant, > Jake I understand the fog of war and that Calley was probably a scapegoat, but re: the other soldiers - was rape part of your training? He almost certainly did evil things, but likely others did worse, and “I was following orders” lasts only so far. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whatever-happened-to-lt-calley/673424/13 "2013-11-11T06:25:35Z")
> [@Jake](#): > > In war, the fear from being shot at and the constant fear of being killed by the enemy, and also being shouted at by commanding officers to obey orders or be Court Marshaled, well… I think one just had to be there and experience what Calley had to go through to pass an honest judgement. > Ex-Army Sergeant, > Jake Read the report. The only American casualty that day was a soldier that shot himself in the leg because he wanted to get the hell out of there because he was so disgusted with what was going on. Calley’s soldiers marched men, women and children, who were no threat, into a ditch and and machine gunned them to death. The American soldiers had no fear of being shot at or killed. It was an out and out massacre of innocent civilians. It so happens I toured Mei Li with an Army General who was a LRRP during the Vietnam war and later worked with the Joint Chiefs of Staff in the Pentagon. He told me that Calley was and is a despicable person. What went on that day was not defensible in any way. Calley went through nothing except getting his jollies from killing innocent people. Calley eventually apologized for when went on that day but it was way too late by then. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whatever-happened-to-lt-calley/673424/14 "2013-11-11T07:39:35Z")
This is what I find disturbing: > [@](#): > > … the jury found Calley guilty of the premeditated murder of 22 civilians. His life sentence, however, was met with nationwide protest, most of whom believed that Calley showed a courageous allegiance to his country. The “Free Calley” movement painted the Lieutenant as the scapegoat for the government’s failed policies in Vietnam and influenced the political atmosphere in Washington with effective protests. “The Battle Hymn of Lt. Calley” sold 200,000 copies, 5,000 telegrams were sent to the White House on the subject, flags in Florida were lowered to half mast, Army veterans turned in their medals, and car bumper stickers across the country demanded, “Free Calley.” I bet Americans would not have been so understanding if in his stress he had killed his wife or 22 women and children in his home town. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whatever-happened-to-lt-calley/673424/15 "2013-11-11T11:50:11Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > That’s a good reason to avoid starting wars and invading countries. > > But before the war we always hear how it’s going to be nice and clean and cheap, and after it’s started all we hear is excuses. Excuses for Americans who commit atrocities and human rights abuses because the other side gets no sympathy for their stress. They just get to be killed. > > That there should be sympathy and apology in America for what Calley did is a disgrace. We seem to forget things like Dresden and Hiroshima, where we kill thousands of civilians with blockbuster bombs, but, when we kill 22 civilians with rifles and pistols, we demand trials and punishment. War ain’t good. If we’re in it, there’s going to be breakage, and it isn’t pleasant. Where is the line between good and bad drawn, in a war? We can talk right and wrong all day long, but, unless you’re in it, talk is cheap. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whatever-happened-to-lt-calley/673424/16 "2013-11-11T12:36:40Z")
So before the government goes to war they should tell it like that and not sugarcoat it with lies about how they will be liberating people. Tell the truth that they will be killing innocent women and children. What had the Vietnamese people done to deserve their being bombed and napalmed and killed by America? The victims of Calley had done nothing to deserve their deaths. And if “war is hell” is enough reason then the deaths of 9/11 in America are just as justified. Anyone who excuses or defends what Calley did is a monster just like anyone who defends of excuses what happened in 9/11. There is no difference. The fact that a huge segment of America defended and defends what Calley did is very telling. Or, as Mark Twain put it: > [@](#): > > "O Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth to battle – be Thou near them! With them – in spirit – we also go forth from the sweet peace of our beloved firesides to smite the foe. O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it – for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whatever-happened-to-lt-calley/673424/17 "2013-11-11T12:45:32Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > So before the government goes to war they should tell it like that and not sugarcoat it with lies about how they will be liberating people. Tell the truth that they will be killing innocent women and children. > > What had the Vietnamese people done to deserve their being bombed and napalmed and killed by America? The victims of Calley had done nothing to deserve their deaths. And if “war is hell” is enough reason then the deaths of 9/11 in America are just as justified. > > Anyone who excuses or defends what Calley did is a monster just like anyone who defends of excuses what happened in 9/11. There is no difference. > > The fact that a huge segment of America defended and defends what Calley did is very telling. > > Or, as Mark Twain put it: You are confusing issues all over the place. 9/11 has nothing to do with the OP or Calley. Mark Twain-even less. I say, let’s have no wars, and that will take care of everything war related. Sadly, the world doesn’t listen to me too closely. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whatever-happened-to-lt-calley/673424/18 "2013-11-11T12:54:55Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > You are confusing issues all over the place. > 9/11 has nothing to do with the OP or Calley. Mark Twain-even less. > > I say, let’s have no wars, and that will take care of everything war related. Sadly, the world doesn’t listen to me too closely. I am not confusing anything. If what Calley did was excusable then any violence is excusable. What Calley did was horrendous and a huge crime and he still gets lots of sympathy in America. Even though he was found guilty in a court of law. I’d like to see if he had killed 22 innocent people in his home town. Then would he be excused? I don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whatever-happened-to-lt-calley/673424/19 "2013-11-11T14:07:21Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > I am not confusing anything. If what Calley did was excusable then any violence is excusable. What Calley did was horrendous and a huge crime and he still gets lots of sympathy in America. Even though he was found guilty in a court of law. I’d like to see if he had killed 22 innocent people in his home town. Then would he be excused? I don’t think so. Admittedly I was not alive during that that time but the impression I always got is that the sympathy was in that he was made the scapegoat for what everyone did that day. I don’t know of anyone excusing what he did but the feeling is there should have been a lot more convicted than just Calley. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whatever-happened-to-lt-calley/673424/20 "2013-11-11T14:18:45Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I don’t know of anyone excusing what he did … There’s two right here in this thread. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whatever-happened-to-lt-calley/673424.md?page=2)