the Aisin eCVT in the Prius (and other similar hybrids) relies on the electric motor(s) in concert with the planetary gearset to do it’s CVT thing. The upside of that is the eCVT design isn’t input-torque limited like a belt CVT, which is why the hybrid Lexus LS could use it behind a big V8. the downside is that the reliance on the electric motors means it’s not really feasible to use it in anything but a hybrid.
One major disconcerting CVT feature is that when you press the accelerator, engine speed quite often does not increase, so sound, vibration and harshness remain stable along with it, and it feels as if you have not accomplished anything.
Meanwhile, the wonders of gear reduction are at play to speed you along or accelerate you faster, in response to your foot pressing the pedal.
In cars which are very insulated, the sensation of speed gets insulted, too, especially since many of the queues to going faster are removed: Engine speed same, noise same, vibrations same, harshness same, jerkiness/shifting gone, etc. At some point, you’ll get visual queues you really are accelerating or going faster, but a lot of what we are used to feeling and hearing is gone with the CVT experience. And if you watch the tach needle, even that visual queue of the needle hurrying it’s way up the dial is missing, as you see engine speed stable.
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I drive a Jeep Patriot, bought it used a couple of years ago (its an 08)
As others have said, the engine is rather quiet and the tach is rather stable compared to a regular tranny driven vehicle. I don’t know if its just the vehicle or the engine/cvt tranny combo, but my Jeep has, what I consider to be, a teeny tiny little motor and a lot of GO!. Took me and the Mrs. a couple of weeks to stop chirping the tires every time we drove it. If I really romp on the gas the rpms will go up to about 4500 for about 3 or 4 seconds, drop down to about 3000-3500 for a second or two and then drop down to 1500 to 2000 depending on speed.
This may be age/wear related but the tranny is louder than the motor if I do “gear” shifting. sounds like a cheap wind up car with those spring driven plastic gears that easily skip and strip.
The mpg is phenomenally better since it seems able to maintain a significantly lower over-all rpm while driving.
I was trying to figure how waiting in queue at a traffic light had to do with anything, until I realized you mean “cue”, not “queue”.
They take the fun and excitement out of driving. It’s like driving with your maiden aunt in the front seat telling you to slow down every time you reach 25 mph. Nissan came out with them in 2007 and they were problematic. I’d not even shop Nissan if I was in the market for a new car because of that transmission. Add Honda to that list now too. Subaru added it and gets their second strike because of the head gasket and timing belt problems (get an estimate on those repairs) but that’s another issue.
99.9% of people don’t drive for “fun” or “excitement.”
You mean only .1% of the driving public buys all the Camaros, Mustangs, 370Z, Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, Audi, Infiniti, Corvette, Lexus F model, CTR, Jaguar F-Type, Mazda Miata, Alfa Romero, Challengers, Chargers, Etc.?
Wow.
buying those cars doesn’t mean you make use of them.
I was responding to the post where you said…
*99.9% of people don’t drive for “fun” or “excitement.”
*
by pointing out how wrong your guess was.
This. Professional car reviewers tend to be enthusiasts who enjoy the driving experience and are very particular about what they drive, while many car owners just want something that’s reliable and gives good fuel economy, and don’t notice (or don’t care) that the engine RPM isn’t in lock-step with the vehicle’s forward speed (as it is in a manual-transmission vehicle).
it’s interesting that many of them don’t actually own their own cars. they live and die on press/media cars:
The design concepts have been around a long time, the engineering and materials to make CVTs practical in cars is recent. So how is it working out? I understand that better mileage is being delivered, but how about the life of these transmissions? People expect to get 200K miles out of a car now, are these transmissions making it through that or are we going to see a lot of used cars with 125K and a broken transmission? I understand the driving complaints with no gear transitions, I’ve driven as much or more with a standard than an automatic, but I could get used to it. Is it really a problem though, is there some inability to accelerate with the equivalent of downshifting or some other problem?
Changes in technology always take time to take hold, but the initial complaints, often from grumpy old geezers like me are usually just noise. Is this the future, or just another brief detour on the way to something completely different?
I drove a rented Impreza with the CVT for a week and the only good reason I found to use the paddle shifter things was to preemptively “kickdown” to pass somebody on a single lane highway. The transmission would revert itself to D automatically after a few moments once the pass was complete. Pretty useful.
I found lots of other not so good reasons to play with the paddle shifters but they all had “because it’s rented” at the root.
When they first came out (CVT) they used a rubber (nylon?) belt to connect the drive and driven parts of the transmission. Nissan’s (2007) with CVTs were referred to as rubber band drive. Sort of a nightmare for sales departments.
99.9% is hyperbole, but I think he’s generally right. You assume that everyone who buys those cars buys them for fun. You are wrong. If you don’t believe me, I’ll introduce you to people I know who own these cars and couldn’t care less less about them. My friend (owns an M3 - he’s a salesman who likes to impress his clients), my co-worker (Porsche 911 - his dad likes them and bought the car for him), my real estate agent (Mercedes - again, impressing clients), my wife’s bridesmaid (Mercedes - likes the status but hates driving), etc. Many people buy these cars to impress others. BMW has made its living for several years by building prestige among the car lovers and enthusiast magazines with a small number of really fun models and leasing stripped-down less fun models to people with aspirations.
CVT allows you to keep the engine at peak efficiency, regardless of what speed you’re going, whereas a geared transmission is only at peak efficiency for a scant moment on its path from too-low-RPMs to too-high-RPMs.
The CVT might not seem as fun, but in real terms it’s more fun than you’d usually be getting out of the same engine (unless the complexities of the CVT lose the car more energy than is gained by the ability to optimize the gearing) and the power to the wheels will be more consistent, so you’re less likely to lose traction - allowing you to go for more hairy moves.
A long time ago, car reviewers probably would have complained that it didn’t take 5 steps to change gear, when we invented the modern clutch system - thus diminishing the experience of interacting with the car. A modern reviewer, driving a 1930 car, would just think, “Thank gosh we smoothed all that out!”
If fun means getting a good mechanical sense of the vehicle and feeling it do all sorts of weird, unnecessary things, then the ideal car would be something more like the Model T. But if fun means driving fast, both in a straight line and around corners, then smoothing everything out is the right answer; it’s just a matter of getting used to the new norm.
Chargers and Avengers are in my experience generic rental cars. And the Charger is a more powerful example of that category but still not one you have to pay extra or request specially.
Miata drivers like to 1) drive Miatas 2) insist to people that it is totally a sports car, so stop poking fun!
I have been running call centers for 25 years. Queue just flows out of brain and fingers!
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V6 stripped-down Chargers are definitely rental cars. However, you definitely won’t get a 707-HP Charger Hellcat at Avis, nor any of the other V8 trims. Much like Mustangs – the terrible option-free V6 is almost purely rental-fleet fare, while the GT and the higher-performance specialty versions are a different breed.
I used to think of Miatas as a hairdresser’s car like most people, but within the enthusiast community these get a great deal of respect. Maybe not within the muscle car community, but I’d still wager that Miata drivers in general care more about a pure driving experience than the huge majority of drivers on the road.
As for me, I’m happily part of the purported .1% who drive for fun and excitement. Although I know for an absolute fact that the number is much higher.
There’s one for bikes too. Video showing how it works:
