# What's a better university system: the USA or Canada? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 26, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-better-university-system-the-usa-or-canada/831565 "2019-03-26T16:28:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-better-university-system-the-usa-or-canada/831565/61 "2019-03-28T17:49:04Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Do Canadian colleges have greek societies like fraternities and sororities? It’s always struck me as more an Ontario thing. I’ve been a student at six different Canadian universities and none of them had fraternities or sororities. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-better-university-system-the-usa-or-canada/831565/62 "2019-03-28T18:25:49Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > It’s always struck me as more an Ontario thing. I’ve been a student at six different Canadian universities and none of them had fraternities or sororities. I vaguely remember maybe something like that at McGill and maybe Queen’s but they really are a non-entity. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-better-university-system-the-usa-or-canada/831565/63 "2019-03-28T19:03:54Z")
I know many on here scoff at things like college sports teams and college colors and college mascots but they do add to the excitement and traditions of college. After all, isnt the overall experience of college just as important as what happens in the classroom? Do Canadian colleges have any types of chants, cheers, or traditions? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-better-university-system-the-usa-or-canada/831565/64 "2019-03-28T19:38:28Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I know many on here scoff at things like college sports teams and college colors and college mascots but they do add to the excitement and traditions of college. After all, isnt the overall experience of college just as important as what happens in the classroom? > > Do Canadian colleges have any types of chants, cheers, or traditions? The sports stuff is just one kind of college experience. I only went to one sports game the whole time I was in college. But I was still able to enjoy other experiences. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-better-university-system-the-usa-or-canada/831565/65 "2019-03-28T19:59:47Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I know many on here scoff at things like college sports teams and college colors and college mascots but they do add to the excitement and traditions of college. After all, isnt the overall experience of college just as important as what happens in the classroom? Comparisons of systems tend to focus on their primary output - graduates and their skills. Rarely is someone’s record of 5 consecutive funnels really important. > [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Do Canadian colleges have any types of chants, cheers, or traditions? Pay bloody attention to the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-better-university-system-the-usa-or-canada/831565/66 "2019-03-28T21:11:12Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > It’s always struck me as more an Ontario thing. I’ve been a student at six different Canadian universities and none of them had fraternities or sororities. I guess it depends on the school. Both Canadian universities I’ve attended had them. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2019, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-better-university-system-the-usa-or-canada/831565/67 "2019-03-28T23:19:23Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Here in the midwest I just notice most people go to local colleges with few from colleges say on the coast or the Ivies. I really only see ivy degrees in people in law, medicine, or academia. Same way I doubt employers in California see many graduates from say Nebraska. It’s a bit different if you work in New York or San Francisco. Particularly on Wall Street or in technology. Like I sometimes feel like an idiot because I didn’t go to Columbia or Princeton. > [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Also what would be the New York and Los Angeles of Canada? New York and Los Angeles New York is only really comparable to other global cities like London, Hong Kong or Tokyo. Canada’s largest city is Toronto, which is roughly the equivalent population of Chicago or Houston. L.A. is just sort of it’s own thing. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-better-university-system-the-usa-or-canada/831565/68 "2019-03-29T00:41:10Z")
I have taught in both countries, two years at Columbia, 4 at U IL and 30 at McGill. From the point of view of an undergraduate, there is really no difference. In graduate school, there is a real difference as many previous posters said. One interesting difference, which is important to a grad student. In Canada, essentially all active researchers seem to get at least a small grant, enough to go to meetings, buy a computer, but not enough usually to fully fund a grad student. In my limited US experience, only the real stars get anything at all and they get gobs of money (upwards of 40% of which is stolen by the university for “overhead”–a practice not permitted in Canada). So those stars can fund a real research team with several students, a couple post-docs, etc. But most get nothing. McGill has frats, but they seem to play a limited role in the life of most undergrads. We also have football and hockey teams that play other schools and even national championships, but again this is not a big deal. One year McGill won the national football championship and I was curious to see how the student daily, which had recently been taken over by a leftist group, would play. I looked at Monday’s paper, nothing. Okay, maybe the paper was put to bed before the Sunday championship game. Tuesday’s paper, not a word. Well the Tuesday paper was (and is, I think) published in French. Wednesday’s paper, not a word. At which point I gave up. About tuition. The numbers above for McGill are correct. But I just happened two days ago to be talking to an American whose daughter was going to McGill. He said that when she was registered in the Arts faculty, the tuition was about $20K (I assume he meant Canadian dollars, so about $15K US) but that when she switched to Science it doubled to $40K. I was astonished. About 25 years ago, I was talking to a student from Schenectady and asked him why had come to McGill, instead, say, SUNY at Albany. His answer was, “Because it was cheap”. Now he was in Science and in those days foreign student tuition was about $13K. Just a point of terminology. In the US, “college” generally means a 4 year bachelor’s granting institution. In Canada, any such institution is called a university, while “college” means something like community college or junior college. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-better-university-system-the-usa-or-canada/831565/69 "2019-03-29T04:06:40Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > I’ll be difficult 🙂 Being the superior engineering student, I naturally remember Godiva’s Hymn. 🙂 “What’s the sport of Kings?” “Queen’s! Queen’s! Queen’s!” (I wonder if they still use that chant in today’s more sensitive age…?) ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-better-university-system-the-usa-or-canada/831565/70 "2019-03-29T04:21:05Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Is interest paid on student loans tax-deductable for Americans? It is for us. Yes, up to a [$2,500/yr](https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2018/08/20/back-to-school-myths-the-student-loan-interest-deduction-is-gone/#19dbd0d6fb28), subject to phaseouts at higher incomes ($80,000 single, $165,000 joint). ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-better-university-system-the-usa-or-canada/831565/71 "2019-03-29T05:45:31Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Being the superior engineering student, I naturally remember Godiva’s Hymn. 🙂 Was that, _We are, we are, we are, we are, we are the Engineers! We can, we can, we can, we can, we can demolish forty beers! Drink rum, drink rum, drink rum, drink rum, and come along with us, For we don’t give a damn for any damn man who don’t give a damn for us!_ As performed by the Lady Godiva Memorial Band? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-better-university-system-the-usa-or-canada/831565/72 "2019-03-29T12:43:22Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I know many on here scoff at things like college sports teams and college colors and college mascots but they do add to the excitement and traditions of college. After all, isnt the overall experience of college just as important as what happens in the classroom? > > Do Canadian colleges have any types of chants, cheers, or traditions? Seriously, if you’re going to ask questions, read the goddamn answers. This has been explained to you. Of course traditions are a part of the college experience. Of course Canadian universities have traditions. You’re getting thousands of kids together in a place where the legal drinking age is 18 or 19. You better believe there’s chanting. > [@Grey](#): > > I vaguely remember maybe something like that at McGill and maybe Queen’s but they really are a non-entity. I think there’s a frat or two at Queen’s, but it’s more of a small little club; there is no whole big “Greek life” thing there. I did not know a single person at Queen’s in a fraternity or sorority and could not have told you where any were. That wasn’t a part of the social experience at all, and that’s a school with rather a lot of social experience. Way back in the day, Queen’s (well, the Alma Mater Society - basically the student government) actually banned fraternities. I do not recall the details but the jist was that it was seen as a foreign influence, and elitist. This was eighty, maybe ninety years ago. That ban remains technically in place, though never enforced because most people don’t even remember it. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-better-university-system-the-usa-or-canada/831565/73 "2019-03-29T12:46:52Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > I’ll be difficult 🙂 Oil Thigh is the informal name of Queen’s College Colours and is all kinds of mixed up with the song/“dance” tied to the Oil Thigh chorous. I forgot “Old Queen’s Sweater.” ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-better-university-system-the-usa-or-canada/831565/74 "2019-03-29T12:47:07Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Was that, > > _We are, we are, we are, we are, we are the Engineers! > We can, we can, we can, we can, we can demolish forty beers! > Drink rum, drink rum, drink rum, drink rum, and come along with us, > For we don’t give a damn for any damn man who don’t give a damn for us!_ > > As performed by the Lady Godiva Memorial Band? _Godiva was a lady who through Coventry did ride, To show to all the villagers her fine and lily-white hide. The most observant villager, an Engineer of course, Was the only one to notice that Godiva rode a horse._ Ooohhhhhhh _We are, we are, we are, we are, we are the Engineers! We can, we can, we can, we can, we can demolish forty beers! Drink rum, drink rum, drink rum, drink rum, and come along with us, For we don’t give a damn for any damn man who don’t give a damn for us!_ **Northern Piper** I’d imagine “What’s the sport of Kings?” is frowned at and the modified Oil Thigh is right out. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-better-university-system-the-usa-or-canada/831565/75 "2019-03-29T13:34:35Z")
Anecdotally - and I can’t prove it - Canadians seem to be better educated on average than Americans, but I’m not sure if that’s really the fault of our university systems. I think Americans have a lot of good choices when it comes to higher ed, but the price tag is outrageous and spiraling out of control. In fact, my biggest concern is that some of these universities are constructing new offices and building bureaucracies so large and so quickly that I worry that the system itself might price itself into a full-blown crisis. By that I mean that middle class students might finally get wise and realize that community college and smaller schools - or even reputable vocational schools - are great ways to save money. My other concern is that the traditional university experience will be available only to those who come from affluent families. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-better-university-system-the-usa-or-canada/831565/76 "2019-03-30T01:29:00Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Anecdotally - and I can’t prove it - Canadians seem to be better educated on average than Americans, but I’m not sure if that’s really the fault of our university systems. > > I think Americans have a lot of good choices when it comes to higher ed, but the price tag is outrageous and spiraling out of control. In fact, my biggest concern is that some of these universities are constructing new offices and building bureaucracies so large and so quickly that I worry that the system itself might price itself into a full-blown crisis. By that I mean that middle class students might finally get wise and realize that community college and smaller schools - or even reputable vocational schools - are great ways to save money. My other concern is that the traditional university experience will be available only to those who come from affluent families. Is there a system in Canada that controls costs? Does the government have a way on say controlling the hiring of administrators? And does each college set its own salary schedule? Does say a 4 year math professor at one college make the same as another? In the US at public colleges college staff are technically employees of the state so that might be Kansas or Oregon or New York. Finally who is retirement thru? Here in Kansas if one teaches at say the University of Kansas its thru the state in a program called KPERS. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-better-university-system-the-usa-or-canada/831565/77 "2019-03-30T03:33:47Z")
Other questions: Has anyone done a comparison of US to Canadian colleges on issues such as; 1. Do degrees require the same number of credit hours? 2. Are classroom sizes about the same? 3. Are professors paid the same? 4. Are Canadian classes taught by full professors or do they use adjucts or grad students to teach classes? On the side - books. In Canada I see they get free tuition. Do students have to buy their own books or laptops? ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-better-university-system-the-usa-or-canada/831565/78 "2019-03-30T10:00:30Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > On the side - books. In Canada I see they get free tuition. Do students have to buy their own books or laptops? I will leave it to other Canadians to answer your other questions, but there is no free tuition in Canada. I believe this matter was discussed upthread. As in the US, there are scholarships and other things that can lower (or eliminate) the cost of an education, but anybody who doesn’t get them pays full freight. Though tuition at Canadian post-secondary institutions tends to be lower than in the US, Canadian students still take out student loans, and pay them off over a period of years. As for books, laptops, and other supplies, yes, Canadian students pay for them. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-better-university-system-the-usa-or-canada/831565/79 "2019-03-30T12:13:51Z")
Canada always ranks near the top in per centage of population with degrees and, education based, upward mobility, for lack of a better word. And schools get equal funding, per student, regardless of tax paid per neighbourhood. So, while there are a few high end elite private schools, the public system is very well funded. The rich school/poor school thing doesn’t really manifest here the way you see in the US. None of our public schools have NFL quality stadiums, pro sports coaches, cheer instructors, singing coaches etc. (instead it’s a math teacher who always wanted to coach football!), etc. Yes, universities have songs, and chants and tradition, but all the Greek stuff is pretty low key compared to the US. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-better-university-system-the-usa-or-canada/831565/80 "2019-03-30T13:23:58Z")
Could you all provide links to some good examples of websites of Canadian colleges? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-better-university-system-the-usa-or-canada/831565.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-better-university-system-the-usa-or-canada/831565.md?page=5)