# What's a good computer these days? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 11, 2007, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-good-computer-these-days/391728 "2007-02-11T15:22:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2007, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-good-computer-these-days/391728/1 "2007-02-11T15:22:49Z")
I haven’t bought a new computer, parts, or even thought about new computers in years. I don’t even know what’s out there, or how fast is fast any more. Now I’m looking for a new computer, possibly a notebook. So I’ve been looking, and a couple of ads stuck out at me but I want to make sure I get the best deal. The first is for a Gateway from Best Buy. It comes with an AMD MK-36, Windows Vista premium, 1G mem, 120G HD, DVD writer. It also has 3 2.0 USB ports, and wireless LAN (802.11b/g). They say it normally costs $750, but is on sale for $550. But it’s Best Buy and usually one can find better deals. The next is a Compaq Presario with Intel duel core T2060, 1G mem, 80G HD, DVD writer, Vista basic, and the same LAN. I can’t find anything else about the ports as it’s a paper only deal. This one normally lists at $800, but is on sale for $500. I can get an upgrade to 120G HD for $40, making them around the same price, and what seems to be a similar computer. That said, I really don’t know who makes the better parts any more, how much memory is normal, nor how big of a HD should I get. What I’d like to do with this computer is run Linux, probably with a dual boot, and graphic heavy GIS. I don’t play games, and the rest of what I would do is internet, word processing, things like that. So are either of these computers a good value, especially if I can go to the store and pick them up? Will they be able to run Linux and Windows, I know some computers can not so it would be dumb for me to buy the wrong one. Do most notebooks come with a way to use them as a desktop machine by connecting a mouse, keyboard and screen? Also what is the standard for computers now a days? I might as well re-learn that as well. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2007, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-good-computer-these-days/391728/2 "2007-02-11T16:13:25Z")
[QUOTE=Edward The Head] I haven’t bought a new computer, parts, or even thought about new computers in years. I don’t even know what’s out there, or how fast is fast any more. Now I’m looking for a new computer, possibly a notebook. [/quote] Unless you have a true **need** for a notebook, don’t go there. You will get 2-3 times more bang for your buck in a desktop machine. IF you need one and have a PC club shop in town [www.pcclub.com](http://www.pcclub.com) you might want to give them a look, they sell their own in house brand of laptop with 1 year warranty at the in store shop for no extra charge. > [@](#): > > That said, I really don’t know who makes the better parts any more, how much memory is normal, nor how big of a HD should I get. What I’d like to do with this computer is run Linux, probably with a dual boot, and graphic heavy GIS. I don’t play games, and the rest of what I would do is internet, word processing, things like that. I’m going to ignore the sale ads you mentioned and bust out my soapbox. Unless you have no other options, look for an independent shop that will warranty their own stuff. Big box stores charge extra for in house warranties, a local independent shop most likely will not, and the big box + warranty vs indy shop w/inhouse will probably be comparable. In addition big name machines in many cases are using proprietary parts making servicing and upgrading them diffcult. Most importantly shop around, find a couple indy shops and ask them what they can offer you, take the ads with you. Many indy shops are also much nicer about little quick fixes where the drone who checks in your machine at the dork squad counter could care less about your perception of best buy after they charge you $129 to remove Weatherbug. An indy shop may also happily set up the dual boot/linux install for you for a small extra charge. > [@](#): > > Will they be able to run Linux and Windows, I know some computers can not so it would be dumb for me to buy the wrong one. Can’t run linux? 😕 I will do some poking around but its gonna be a rare machine that cannot run other OS’s if properly installed. > [@](#): > > Do most notebooks come with a way to use them as a desktop machine by connecting a mouse, keyboard and screen? Yes, usb external keyboards or wireless ones via bluetooth. I haven’t seen a laptop in the last few years that didn’t have a monitor output. ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2007, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-good-computer-these-days/391728/3 "2007-02-11T16:30:02Z")
[QUOTE=drachillix] Unless you have a true **need** for a notebook, don’t go there. You will get 2-3 times more bang for your buck in a desktop machine. IF you need one and have a PC club shop in town [www.pcclub.com](http://www.pcclub.com) you might want to give them a look, they sell their own in house brand of laptop with 1 year warranty at the in store shop for no extra charge. [/quote] I don’t really need a laptop, but I thought it would be a bit easier for both my wife and I to work on things at the same time if need be. Plus I didn’t want to have to switch back and forth between Linux and Windows even though my wife said she knows a bit about Linux. I will check out the above link and see what they have. > [@](#): > > Unless you have no other options, look for an independent shop that will warranty their own stuff. Big box stores charge extra for in house warranties, a local independent shop most likely will not, and the big box + warranty vs indy shop w/inhouse will probably be comparable. In addition big name machines in many cases are using proprietary parts making servicing and upgrading them diffcult. I’m sure here in the DC area I can find some independent shop, but how often to coputers go bonkers? I’ve had two problems at work, one was a power issue, the other I don’t remember. Don’t think I’ve ever had one at home so I don’t know how much of an issue the warranty would be, until I say that of course and I have tons of problems. > [@](#): > > Can’t run linux? I will do some poking around but its gonna be a rare machine that cannot run other OS’s if properly installed. I’ve been going back over my old Linux books, and as I’ve said it’s been years since I’ve played with it, and it said something about not being able to dual boot with FAT\*. I don’t even remember what that means any more and if the newer computers still use it. \*I know it means file allocation table, but what it means for 100% I can’t remember. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2007, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-good-computer-these-days/391728/4 "2007-02-11T16:59:37Z")
An Apple Macintosh continues to be a “good computer”, and now in its Intel-based incarnation is for the first time a “good computer” not merely “for the rest of us” who don’t have a reason or an investment in Windows (or other PC-based) software but for you Windows-using folks as well. May not be for you, but don’t rule a Mac out until you’ve given it consideration. They are solidly good equipment and the track record on service is among the best in the industry. Oh, and FAT (file allocation table, as you said) isn’t a characteristic of the computer _per se_ but of the formatting of the hard disk. For Linux you may have to reformat the hard disk, or partition it and reformat part of it. But should be able to do that on any PC (and yes including a Mac, “Parallels” works with Linux) ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2007, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-good-computer-these-days/391728/5 "2007-02-11T17:09:48Z")
[QUOTE=Edward The Head] I’ve been going back over my old Linux books, and as I’ve said it’s been years since I’ve played with it, and it said something about not being able to dual boot with FAT\*. I don’t even remember what that means any more and if the newer computers still use it. \*I know it means file allocation table, but what it means for 100% I can’t remember. [/QUOTE] More than you want to know about FAT file systems > **[File Allocation Table](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat32)** > > File Allocation Table (FAT) is a file system developed for personal computers and was the default file system for the DOS and Windows 9x operating systems. Originally developed in 1977 for use on floppy disks, it was adapted for use on hard disks and other devices. The increase in disk drive capacity over time drove modifications to the design that resulted in new versions: FAT12, FAT16, FAT32, and exFAT. FAT was replaced with NTFS as the default file system on Microsoft operating systems sta... anything you buy today will probably be NTFS > **[NTFS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ntfs)** > > NT File System (NTFS) is a proprietary journaling file system developed by Microsoft in the 1990s. It was developed to overcome scalability, security and other limitations with FAT. NTFS adds several features that FAT and HPFS lack, including: access control lists (ACLs); filesystem encryption; transparent compression; sparse files; file system journaling and volume shadow copy, a feature that allows backups of a system while in use. Starting with Windows NT 3.1, it is the default file system of ... ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2007, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-good-computer-these-days/391728/6 "2007-02-11T17:42:20Z")
Only Microsoft operating systems will boot from an NTFS disk. Linux and Mac OS have read support, but still can’t write to the disk. So if you’re dual-booting, you’ll need to set aside a partition for that OS to use. When running multiple operating systems, there’s also the option of virtualization. This is essentially running one operating system ‘inside’ another. The advantage here is that both are running at the same time, and you can switch back and forth. The disadvantage is that sometimes things don’t work and you don’t have the ‘full power’ of the system. If you’re using virtualization, having a multiple-core chip is a huge advantage (and right now the advantage lies with Intel chips). ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2007, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-good-computer-these-days/391728/7 "2007-02-11T18:07:43Z")
[QUOTE=drachillix] Unless you have no other options, look for an independent shop that will warranty their own stuff. Big box stores charge extra for in house warranties, a local independent shop most likely will not, and the big box + warranty vs indy shop w/inhouse will probably be comparable.. [/QUOTE] Normally, I’d agree with you on this. However, I bought the computer I’m using right now from an independent store. Not one month later, the store shut down. Luckily, I can fix most of the things that can go wrong with a computer, but the average joe might be screwed in that situation. (When I picked up the computer, I found out they’d given me two LCD monitors instead of just the one that came with my machine. I could’ve really used that extra monitor, but I couldn’t bring myself to keep it. Now I wish I hadn’t been so honest.) ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2007, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-good-computer-these-days/391728/8 "2007-02-11T23:42:09Z")
[QUOTE=Lightnin’] Normally, I’d agree with you on this. However, I bought the computer I’m using right now from an independent store. Not one month later, the store shut down. Luckily, I can fix most of the things that can go wrong with a computer, but the average joe might be screwed in that situation. [/QUOTE] True, my area may just be a little spoiled in that we have probably 15 shops that have been around for at least 10 years. I just signed a subcontractor agreement with one of them to do some of their onsite work. A little research or going to a store that has been around for 4-5+ years could avoid many of the common pitfalls. I do not sell new systems for just that reason, I am still a fairly new business and do not want people left hanging on warranties. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-good-computer-these-days/391728/9 "2007-02-12T10:16:44Z")
Just so you know, most toasters will run Linux if you give them the right bread. Focus on the performance you want in Windows, because that’s going to be the limiting variable. ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-good-computer-these-days/391728/10 "2007-02-12T11:24:26Z")
I detest notebooks/laptops, by the time you have added a proper screen, keyboard and mouse, you could sling the laptop and replace it with a cheap system unit that runs a lot faster (laptops need low power technology). I use multiple boot partitions, but on the last machine I bought I got a load of drive caddies and inexpensive hard disks. It is great being able to treat a HD like a floppy and it is comforting to know that **nothing** can get at the system in the caddy sitting on a shelf. Generally I’ve tended to buy expensive kit close to the top of the range and had it built for me - I detest fiddling with hardware and until recently had a load of enthusiastic pros around. If I bought another machine I would seriously think about a lower range Dell, but only if I could Caddy the drive. As a pretty inactive programmer I don’t really need all those MIPS and the price jump from yesterday’s glory box to today’s state of the art box is ridiculous. > [@](#): > > I don’t really need a laptop, but I thought it would be a bit easier for both my wife and I to work on things at the same time if need be. That has me utterly confused, how you and your wife can use a laptop at the same time rather boggles my mind - well under Linux … no I can’t see it - not with a GUI. In the old days under CP/M86 you could have at least two (or three) users on an IBM AT using dumb terminals on the RS232 ports. Incidentally, if you do have a good computer shop near you, you might be wise looking at their second hand kit. I really agree that you need a good DVD R/W - and also some good imaging software for secure backup and relatively easy restore. There is little point in splashing out on huge HDs - they come down in price faster than you can use the space. I would also be wary about Vista, it is very, very new. ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-good-computer-these-days/391728/11 "2007-02-12T12:42:34Z")
[QUOTE=FRDE] That has me utterly confused, how you and your wife can use a laptop at the same time rather boggles my mind - well under Linux … no I can’t see it - not with a GUI. In the old days under CP/M86 you could have at least two (or three) users on an IBM AT using dumb terminals on the RS232 ports. [/QUOTE] Sorry, I meant we have one computer, but there’s not much space on it and if I wanted to do something at the same time that she does then we can’t. I wanted to buy something for myself so when I’m doing lots of work I don’t have to worry about what she wants to do. Basically I want something that I can run the GRASS GIS system on, which the best for that is Linux. I also wanted a way so that if the two of us wanted to use a computer at the same time we’d have two. I really don’t care what version of windows is on it since I don’t think I’ll be using it much. We have a compter that will do all of that. Honestly I haven’t bought a new computer since the late 90s, when 256M of memeory was a lot. I’ve since forgotten most of the stuff about hardware, and now that it’s moved so far forward I don’t know anything anymore. ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-good-computer-these-days/391728/12 "2007-02-12T13:46:02Z")
Understood. Buy a clunker - I am not a Linux expert, but do know that most things fly without Windows. Actually I am writing this on a P160 that is over 10 years old, and I’ve a stack of newer machines that I just use for testing. My XP box sounds horrible, too much fan noise, and I know the solution but can’t be bothered. One big tip - get a router that allows you to switch off incoming TCP/IP - they don’t cost much and a hardware firewall is … well worth having. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-good-computer-these-days/391728/13 "2007-02-12T18:57:53Z")
I often see pretty good price deals on 17" screen laptops. I suspect this is because few will make such a mistake a second time. There is good reason for the smaller laptops being more expensive. If you intend to carry a laptop much, you probably want to forgo a huge screen. 14.1" is about as large as I’d go. It is not just the weight and bulk of the larger screen, but that a bigger screen has higher back-lighting power requirements, which requires a larger, heavier battery, which requires a larger, heavier charger. By the time you include the charger, and the optional larger battery, (which you probably need to get enough run time) and the bigger bag, the 1 lb. spec sheet difference between a 14.1 and a 15.4" laptop can easily become 3 or more extra pounds you are lugging around. Also, that bigger case will hold more stuff, and few will resist the urge to fill it up, so it is really easy to end up with more than you really want to lug around. This is a case of do as I say, not as I did. I got a good price on a HP ZV6000 when they discontinued the model. It has a 15.4" screen, but is overall the size of a 17" laptop. (barely fits in a 17" sized case) My next laptop will be much smaller. When Kevbabe wanted a laptop, I managed to convince her to get a smaller one. For that she thanks me nearly every time she lifts it. I was not able to convince my boss. He just bought a big honking 17" laptop. He travels a lot. I’m pretty sure that sucker is going to be going off to college with his daughter next year. ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-good-computer-these-days/391728/14 "2007-02-12T19:30:39Z")
I bought a cheap Dell just after Christmas. I paid $1021 CDN, got a 80 gig HDD, 15.4 inch wide screen monitor, 1 gig RAM and XP Pro (I wanted a system to do some [Error: ASP.net | The ASP.NET Site](http://ASP.NET/IIS/SQL) Server work on) with a carrying case and a wireless mouse that my wife co-opted for her laptop. With a wireless network running in the house, all I can say is that laptops rule! Pound for pound they are not as powerful as a desktop, but being able to surf on the couch while watching TV, surf/work at the kitchen table, plug it into the A/V receiver to listen to MP3s and move it anywhere you want more than make up for their expense. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2007, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-good-computer-these-days/391728/15 "2007-02-12T20:10:41Z")
A great place to buy PC’s and laptops from is the [Dell Outlet](http://www.dell.com/content/). This is a special site where Dell puts machines that people order and then cancel, or machines that get dented or refurbished machines. It’s a tricky site. You need to watch the listings for a week or so to get the hang of it. Often there is basically nothing in stock, then they will suddenly put out a couple thousand new machines. This is usually done early morning hours. You can get really great deals from this page. Also, I’d recommend against going with Vista. It hasn’t been out long enough. You don’t want to own it if it ends up being the next Windows ME.