# What's a Ringer **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 9, 2002, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ringer/131457 "2002-10-09T01:10:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![raisinbread](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8491ac/32.png) [@raisinbread](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raisinbread)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2002, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ringer/131457/1 "2002-10-09T01:10:12Z")
I was reading about John Edward’s fraud at being a psychic and the article mentioned something called a “ringer”. What is a ringer in the context of an act made up of cold/hot readings and other hijinx? ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2002, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ringer/131457/2 "2002-10-09T01:21:22Z")
A ringer in this context is a person who is playing a role of a stranger, when in fact John Edwards already knows what to say about this person and the ringer acts surprised. In other words, a set-up. ---
**Author:** ![I\_am\_Sparticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@I\_am\_Sparticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_am_Sparticus)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2002, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ringer/131457/3 "2002-10-09T01:23:31Z")
one that enters a competition under false representations especially as to identity or past performances Ah, the joys of owning a dictionary. Means that the person read was planted in the audience and works with the magician/psychic/faith healer. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2002, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ringer/131457/4 "2002-10-09T01:31:05Z")
So what’s the origin of the word? I know it’s been around for a long time. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2002, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ringer/131457/5 "2002-10-09T02:49:01Z")
> **[World Wide Words: Ringer / Dead ringer](http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-rin1.htm)** > > Any ideas on the origin of 'ringer', for a contestant who is entered dishonestly into a competition? Mr. Quinion will answer all. US in origin. Late 1800’s. Horse racing. Cheating. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2002, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ringer/131457/6 "2002-10-09T18:59:45Z")
As an aside, it seems to me that, in this case, the person would seem to be more of a shill (someone planted in the audience by, say, a snake-oil salesman or con artist) than a ringer. But that’s a little beside the point. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2002, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ringer/131457/7 "2002-10-09T20:51:12Z")
Here in the UK the term is also used for a stolen car which has been given a new identity ( false plates , VIN etc) and the term is also used for the person who carries out this scam. As was stated above, the term is also used in horse racing when a good horse is entered in a race , pretending to be an inferior one and so getting much better odds and ( hopfully ) winning. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2002, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ringer/131457/8 "2002-10-09T21:52:00Z")
I don’t see how Quinion got “ringer” meaning substitute from “ring the changes.” I’ve always understood that the origin of this usage was from counterfeiting of coins – a ringer being one that would sound wrong when dropped. The usage then moved from coins to horse racing, and from there to the general sense of cheating. There’s a discussion of this [here](http://www.mail-archive.com/word@tlk-lists.com/msg00102.html) in connection with the origin of “dead ringer”. ---
**Author:** ![Motog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@Motog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motog)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2002, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ringer/131457/9 "2002-10-09T23:21:48Z")
As another aside, here in Australia, the [Macquarie Dictionary of Slang](http://www.macquariedictionary.com.au/p/dictionary/slang-r.html)gives a “ring in” as: > [@](#): > > noun 1. a racehorse or greyhound substituted for another in a race. 2. the act of making such a substitution. 3. a person or thing substituted for another at the last moment: Joe couldn’t come, so I’m the ring-in. 4. a fraudulent person; a person pretending to be someone else; a phoney. 5. someone from another place; an outsider. The classic case is taking a successful big city horse surreptitiously to a small town race. Unfortunately it doesn’t give any derivation for the term. Very similar to the US term, ringer. ---
**Author:** ![Motog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@Motog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motog)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2002, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ringer/131457/10 "2002-10-09T23:39:24Z")
As another aside, here in Australia, the [Macquarie Dictionary of Slang](http://www.macquariedictionary.com.au/p/dictionary/slang-r.html)gives a “ring in” as: > [@](#): > > noun 1. a racehorse or greyhound substituted for another in a race. 2. the act of making such a substitution. 3. a person or thing substituted for another at the last moment: Joe couldn’t come, so I’m the ring-in. 4. a fraudulent person; a person pretending to be someone else; a phoney. 5. someone from another place; an outsider. The classic case is taking a successful big city horse surreptitiously to a small town race. Unfortunately it doesn’t give any derivation for the term. Very similar to the US term, ringer. ---
**Author:** ![Motog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@Motog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motog)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ringer/131457/11 "2002-10-10T00:04:51Z")
Sorry about the double post. Don’t know how that happened ---
**Author:** ![Ring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Ring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ring)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ringer/131457/12 "2002-10-10T01:18:32Z")
It’s also someone who is a lot like me. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ringer/131457/13 "2002-10-10T01:41:02Z")
**Spoiler** I don’t think I’d trust that site you provided as far as etymology goes. When they said > [@](#): > > A ringer was originally a counterfeit gold coin. One could tell the fake by dropping it on a hard surface. If it rang like a bell, it was fake. I deal in coins for a living. Have for 35 years. If you drop a typical counterfeit coin on a hard surface, it goes “thud.” It was usually made out of lead or a base metal. The real McCoy rings. So they got that one wrong. And if you could supply a cite as to using the term “ringer” to specifically mean a “counterfeit gold coin”, I’d love to see it. ---
**Author:** ![Ring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Ring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ring)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ringer/131457/14 "2002-10-10T01:48:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ring \* > \*\*It’s also someone who is a lot like me. \*\* God that was lame! Please disregard my previous post. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Motog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@Motog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motog)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ringer/131457/15 "2002-10-10T02:06:05Z")
The [Word Detective](http://www.word-detective.com/030600.html#deadringer) gives a much better and more complete description of the derivation of “ringer”. (It’s the last article at the bottom of the page under the heading “Yet more evidence that the internet is evil”). > [@](#): > > The “ringer” in “dead ringer” comes from the phrase “ring the changes,” which literally means to ring all the bells in a bell-tower in varying sequences, and metaphorically means to repeat something in a variety of ways. As slang, “ring the changes” means to substitute a bad or false thing for a good thing, and it’s that “phony” meaning that gave us “dead ringer.” There’s more there for those who are interested. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ringer/131457/16 "2002-10-10T07:38:13Z")
**samclem** , although it doesn’t match the Word Detective’s explanation, your description of the sound a fake coin makes sounds like a good explanation for the term ‘dead ringer’, i.e., a coin that looks just like the real thing, but makes a dead thud when dropped. You could also say that a fake coin doesn’t ‘ring true’. Pure speculation, though. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ringer/131457/17 "2002-10-10T08:22:22Z")
Just though I would mention that ringer is also the term, in any sport, for playing a better player in a weaker team: ie, in a club with 6 teams in various leagues, playing a first XI player in an important cup match for the fourth XI would be ‘playing a ringer’. ---
**Author:** ![Urban\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ringer/131457/18 "2002-10-10T08:24:13Z")
[This site](http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?ringer) gives the origin of the word in the 15th century. ---
**Author:** ![woolly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ebca7d/32.png) [@woolly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woolly)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ringer/131457/19 "2002-10-10T13:58:17Z")
[Ringer](http://www.quinion.com/words/qa/qa-rin1.htm) The Australian sense of ringer, for the top gun or best-performing shearer in a shed, comes originally from a much older English dialect word meaning something outstanding or superlative. ---
**Author:** ![woolly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ebca7d/32.png) [@woolly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woolly)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ringer/131457/20 "2002-10-10T14:09:26Z")
oops, and for the rest of the post … In the Australian venacular, there is a important distinction between a ringer (the best) and a ring in (a fraud) hence the situation mentioned by **Aro** would be termed a ring in. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ringer/131457.md?page=2)