# What's a ton of CO2? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 22, 2008, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ton-of-co2/478272 "2008-12-22T03:42:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ton-of-co2/478272/1 "2008-12-22T03:42:22Z")
If I were to put a ton of CO2 in a balloon and put it on a scale, would the scale indicate a ton? Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ton-of-co2/478272/2 "2008-12-22T03:51:00Z")
Yes. Plus the weight of the balloon. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ton-of-co2/478272/3 "2008-12-22T03:53:44Z")
Usually in this case, ā€œtonā€ means ā€œmass tonā€, as opposed to ā€œweight tonā€, so no. ---
**Author:** ![SandyHook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dec6dc/32.png) [@SandyHook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SandyHook)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ton-of-co2/478272/4 "2008-12-22T04:00:53Z")
Hmmmmm. One yes, one no. Iā€™m going with the yes guy. In orbit the balloon would have no weight, but would still mass a ton. Sitting on the bathroom scale in your house at 1 g it would weigh a ton. Or so Iā€™m thinking, but Iā€™m often wrong about these things. ---
**Author:** ![snailboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/97f17d/32.png) [@snailboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snailboy)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ton-of-co2/478272/5 "2008-12-22T04:02:08Z")
Boyancy would make that not true. Carbon dioxide is denser than air, but not by a whole lot. When it comes to something about as dense as water, boyancy in air is negligent. But carbox dioxide would have significant boyancy. Imagine a ton of helium. It would show up as negative on the scales, even though gravity is putting a ton of force on it. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ton-of-co2/478272/6 "2008-12-22T04:06:09Z")
> [@SandyHook](#): > > Sitting on the bathroom scale in your house at 1 g it would weigh a ton. Unless your bathroom contains a vacuum, thereā€™s buoyancy to account for. If the balloon + CO2 masses a ton, it will weigh less by the difference between the mass of the balloon and the mass of air it displaces. ---
**Author:** ![SandyHook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dec6dc/32.png) [@SandyHook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SandyHook)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ton-of-co2/478272/7 "2008-12-22T04:08:16Z")
> [@snailboy](#): > > Boyancy would make that not true. Carbon dioxide is denser than air, but not by a whole lot. When it comes to something about as dense as water, boyancy in air is negligent. But carbox dioxide would have significant boyancy. Imagine a ton of helium. It would show up as negative on the scales, even though gravity is putting a ton of force on it. That would only be true if the the balloon was fairly big. Put a ton of helium in a balloon a few meters across and it ainā€™t gonna float worth squat. A mass ton under 1 g is still a ton, I think. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ton-of-co2/478272/8 "2008-12-22T04:10:53Z")
What I want to know is, when people say they are creating or saving 16 tons of carbon, what does that actually quantifiably mean? Is it a lot? Is it only a little bit? Is it the equivalent of destroying a quarter acre of rainforest? What??? Itā€™s a meaningless statistic without context. You may as well say you rotated a metric assload of oxygen. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ton-of-co2/478272/9 "2008-12-22T04:11:43Z")
I considered buoyancy. Unless you had special circumstances, however, a ton of anything in a balloon is a lot. It would lie flat against any scale. I suppose if you had some sort of skyhook that measured the weight of a dangling balloon, bouyancy might come into play. Failing that, an ordinary scale located on earth, large enough to rest the balloon on, should read the weight of the system pressing against it. You might have a tiny effect from air pressing against the sides. The problem is that the OP didnā€™t define the system at all. If everybody responds with a different conceptual system, then itā€™s true we can get differing results. Is the scale otherwise in a vacuum? Is it an ordinary bathroom scale? Does the balloon rest on it or hang from it? Are the temperature of the gases inside and out at equilibrium? Are we even on earth? šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![snailboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/97f17d/32.png) [@snailboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snailboy)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ton-of-co2/478272/10 "2008-12-22T04:28:03Z")
> [@SandyHook](#): > > That would only be true if the the balloon was fairly big. Put a ton of helium in a balloon a few meters across and it ainā€™t gonna float worth squat. > > A mass ton under 1 g is still a ton, I think. Well, I was imagining the balloon would expand such that the pressure inside stays roughly the same as outside the balloon. Thatā€™s how all the balloons Iā€™ve ever played with work. But yeah, if you put enough pressure on it to increase the density beyond that of air, it would show positive on the scales, though boyancy would still be significant as long as itā€™s a gas. ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ton-of-co2/478272/11 "2008-12-22T04:29:19Z")
> [@SandyHook](#): > > That would only be true if the the balloon was fairly big. Put a ton of helium in a balloon a few meters across and it ainā€™t gonna float worth squat. > > A mass ton under 1 g is still a ton, I think. No. Density of air at sea level is 1.2 g/L. Density of CO2 is 1.98 g/L. A ā€œmass tonā€ of CO2 is 907.2 kg, displacing 458,182 L worth of air. The displaced air has a mass of 549.8kg. So if you were to put the balloon on a scale, it would weigh 907.2-549.8=357.4 kg (787.9 lbs), plus the weight of the balloon material. So a ā€œmass tonā€ of CO2 only weighs 0.4 tons. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ton-of-co2/478272/12 "2008-12-22T04:34:31Z")
> [@](#): > > That would only be true if the the balloon was fairly big. Put a ton of helium in a balloon a few meters across and it ainā€™t gonna float worth squat. Quoted for truth. > [@snailboy](#): > > Well, I was imagining the balloon would expand such that the pressure inside stays roughly the same as outside the balloon. Thatā€™s how all the balloons Iā€™ve ever played with work. :dubious: I think you should rethink this statement. Or start a thread titled ā€œHow do balloons work?ā€ ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ton-of-co2/478272/13 "2008-12-22T04:36:20Z")
Obviously, if the gas is compressed it changes everything. However, thatā€™s one highly-rigid ā€œballoon.ā€ ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ton-of-co2/478272/14 "2008-12-22T04:40:52Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The problem is that the OP didnā€™t define the system at all. > Are we even on earth? šŸ™‚ No, I didnā€™t. Sorry. I saw a commercial comparing the CO2 emissions of a SUV and a house. In tons. Earth house, earth SUV. šŸ˜‰ Free (uncontained) CO2. So, what the hell are they talking about? ---
**Author:** ![snailboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/97f17d/32.png) [@snailboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snailboy)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ton-of-co2/478272/15 "2008-12-22T04:56:21Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > :dubious: I think you should rethink this statement. Or start a thread titled ā€œHow do balloons work?ā€ Uhhā€¦ Have you ever tried to blow on a tire gauge? How about blowing up a tire with your mouth? Humans are capable of blowing very little pressure, Iā€™m guessing less than 1 PSI. If balloons did hold a lot of pressure, you wouldnā€™t be able to blow them up with your mouth, like tires. Of course Iā€™m talking about party balloons, not hot air balloons, blimps, or anything like that. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ton-of-co2/478272/16 "2008-12-22T05:26:21Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Unless you had special circumstances, however, a ton of anything in a balloon is a lot. It would lie flat against any scale. If whatā€™s in the balloon is helium or hydrogen, it will not lie flat against a scale. > [@](#): > > I suppose if you had some sort of skyhook that measured the weight of a dangling balloon, bouyancy might come into play. Failing that, an ordinary scale located on earth, large enough to rest the balloon on, should read the weight of the system pressing against it. You might have a tiny effect from air pressing against the sides. Why would a balloon resting on a scale see buoyancy effects different from if it were dangling? The buoyance is due to the surrounding atmosphere - it has nothing to do with how the balloon is supported. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ton-of-co2/478272/17 "2008-12-22T13:36:32Z")
Getting back to teh OP as restated in post #14 ā€¦ Per **YamatoTwinkie** , a ton of CO2 is very roughly 500,000 liters (at STP). Thatā€™s a cube about 25 feet on a side. Given that the CO2 concetration in ordinary air is about 0.03%, or 3 parts per 10,000, that means a ton of pure CO2 is about as much as is found in a cube of ordinary air very roughly 350 ft on a side. So qualitatively, a ton of CO2 is very very roughly enough to double the CO2 concentration of the interior of a smallish US shopping mall with a couple anchor department stores. Caveat: All these figures were done ballpark & with rounding & simplified conversion factors, so the final result is probably off by 10-20% (+/- any exponent errors I made). ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ton-of-co2/478272/18 "2008-12-22T13:50:34Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > No, I didnā€™t. Sorry. > I saw a commercial comparing the CO2 emissions of a SUV and a house. In tons. > Earth house, earth SUV. šŸ˜‰ Free (uncontained) CO2. > So, what the hell are they talking about? They are talking about a mass ton of CO2ā€“907 kg, as **YamatoTwinkie** says. A specific number of molecules, in other words. Your additional question about the balloon and scale is interesting, and we could argue up some assumptions and calcualtions and conclusions and get a reasonable answer, but itā€™s really got nothing to do with understanding _what_ a ton of CO2 _is_ (or, rather, what the folks in the commercial _mean_ when they refer to ā€œa ton of CO2ā€) ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ton-of-co2/478272/19 "2008-12-22T14:12:26Z")
A ton of CO[sub]2[/sub] has a mass of one ton, equal to 2,000 lb[sub]m[/sub], or 907.2 kg. At standard temperature and pressure (STP), (0 Ā°C and 1 atm), and assuming ideal gas behavior, it would have volume of about 462,000 liters. This could fit into a large balloon with a diameter of about 9.6 meters. As **YamatoTwinkie** and others have noted, due to buoyancy effects, the balloon will weigh less than a ton if placed on a scale. However, it will register a weight (correctly calculated by the aforementioned **YamatoTwinkie** ). Several others in this thread do not appear to be properly accounting for buoyancy or understand how a balloon works. In any event, we are still talking about a LOT of gas. > [@snailboy](#): > > Well, I was imagining the balloon would expand such that the pressure inside stays roughly the same as outside the balloon. Thatā€™s how all the balloons Iā€™ve ever played with work. > [@Cubsfan](#): > > :dubious: I think you should rethink this statement. Or start a thread titled ā€œHow do balloons work?ā€ **Cubsfan** , balloons with non-rigid walls do indeed have about the the same pressure as the air surrounding them. Small balloons with elastic walls do have a slightly higher pressure necessary to overcome the elastic force of the balloon, but larger balloons (including hot air balloons) with non-elastic walls have exactly the same pressure as the air surrounding them. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ton-of-co2/478272/20 "2008-12-22T14:29:37Z")
> [@SandyHook](#): > > That would only be true if the the balloon was fairly big. Put a ton of helium in a balloon a few meters across and it ainā€™t gonna float worth squat. > [@Cubsfan](#): > > Quoted for truth. A ton of helium at standard temperature and pressure (0 Ā°C and 1 atm) would have a volume of about 5,083,340 liters. You could fit this in a spherical balloon with a diameter of about 21.3 meters. It would float just fine. If you compress the ton of helium into a smaller container, you are not really talking about a ā€œballoonā€ anymore. The smaller container would need strong, inelastic walls, resulting in something more like a compressed gas tank. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-a-ton-of-co2/478272.md?page=2)