# What's American interest in alliance with Israel? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 17, 2012, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-american-interest-in-alliance-with-israel/638038 "2012-10-17T18:09:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-american-interest-in-alliance-with-israel/638038/101 "2012-10-20T17:16:42Z")
Thanks, plenty of interesting info there, and plenty of ignorance fought! But though you’ve given some very interesting informtion on their founding documents etc., you have yet to show me that Hezbollah actually _strives towards_ the establishment of a Khomeini-style theocratic dictatorship. They talk the talk, yes, but do they walk the walk? My impression is that no, they do not – they have come to accept that Lebanon is not Iran, and that Nasrallah will never be its _rahbar-e enghelab_. For example, as you yourself point out, they dropped their demands for an Islamic Republic in Lebanon three years ago. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > Meanwhile, your claim that Hezbollah does not want to establish a theocracy is also fictitious. They only dropped overt demands for an Islamic Republic in Lebanon [three years ago](http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/11/30/us-lebanon-hezbollah-idUSTRE5AT3VK20091130). “Want to”? Sure, they’d love to! But are they actually trying to make it happen? No. My guess would be that Nasrallah’s continued Khomeinist bluster is partly wishful thinking, partly diplomatic lip service, intended to keep the Iranians happy. In practical terms, however, Hezbollah has come to accept a considerably more modest role in Lebanese politics than that of Khomeini et al. in Iranian politics. So, like I said, Hezbollah does not strive towards the establishment of a theocratic dictatorship. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-american-interest-in-alliance-with-israel/638038/102 "2012-10-20T20:03:03Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > you have yet to show me that Hezbollah actually _strives towards_ the establishment of a Khomeini-style theocratic dictatorship. You’re the one who switched my past tense statements to present tense, however. That the other nations in the region have reason to worry about Iranian influence specifically because of what Iran did to Lebanon is relevant even if Iran has not currently instructed Hezbollah to do much more than maintain the status quo. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-american-interest-in-alliance-with-israel/638038/103 "2012-10-20T21:38:08Z")
I dont think there’s such thing as “American interest”. As in, a net benefit to American society in which people can say “darn it, our lives are better and we feel fulfilled”. Unless, of course, an average American feels pride when reading about [starvation and calorie count](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/17/israeli-military-calorie-limit-gaza) carefully managed by Israeli fascist regime against 1.5 million people. Some hearts are hard to fill with pride but this action of “the only democratic country” in the regions sure does make one helluva attempt. It looks like a bully who spends too much time in the gym who found the weakest little kid to harass for ever. Or, at least until bully makes up for all the centuries of persecution from almost every nation on Earth where he ever stepped on. Now, go on with your regularly scheduled apologia and rationalization. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-american-interest-in-alliance-with-israel/638038/104 "2012-10-20T23:15:34Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > I dont think there’s such thing as “American interest”. As in, a net benefit to American society in which people can say “darn it, our lives are better and we feel fulfilled”. Unless, of course, an average American feels pride when reading about [starvation and calorie count](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/17/israeli-military-calorie-limit-gaza) carefully managed by Israeli fascist regime against 1.5 million people. Some hearts are hard to fill with pride but this action of “the only democratic country” in the regions sure does make one helluva attempt. > > It looks like a bully who spends too much time in the gym who found the weakest little kid to harass for ever. Or, at least until bully makes up for all the centuries of persecution from almost every nation on Earth where he ever stepped on. > > Now, go on with your regularly scheduled apologia and rationalization. Newcomer, did you actually read your cite? It makes it clear that the calorie counts are to ensure Gazans don’t suffer from malnutrition. That’s the exact opposite of attempting to inflict “starvation” on them. Also, do you know what a “fascist government” is? I ask because calling the Israeli government “fascist” makes about as much sense as calling Barak Obama a “socialist” or a “communist.” Hell, it’s almost as bad as the anti-Semitic airheads who claim the Mossad was behind 911. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-american-interest-in-alliance-with-israel/638038/105 "2012-10-21T14:27:33Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Newcomer, did you actually read your cite? > > It makes it clear that the calorie counts are to ensure Gazans don’t suffer from malnutrition. That’s the exact opposite of attempting to inflict “starvation” on them. This reminds me of Bill Maher joke when he told some female celebrity about condition of slave-like workers in diamond mines and specific story that if a worker happens to steal some small piece they cut their hands. Celebrity, stunned obviously, but still without a hint of sarcasm, asks: “Both of them?” > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Also, do you know what a “fascist government” is? > > I ask because calling the Israeli government “fascist” makes about as much sense as calling Barak Obama a “socialist” or a “communist.” Nationalism and power is all Palestinians experience from Israel. However, I’ll allow that your definition includes some esoteric term that will make Israel occupation feel like a camomile tea. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-american-interest-in-alliance-with-israel/638038/106 "2012-10-21T14:43:33Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > This reminds me of Bill Maher joke when he told some female celebrity about condition of slave-like workers in diamond mines and specific story that if a worker happens to steal some small piece they cut their hands. Celebrity, stunned obviously, but still without a hint of sarcasm, asks: “Both of them?” I’m sorry but this comment is asinine. You accused the Israelis of starving the Gazans and then linked to a cite that either you hadn’t read or hoped we wouldn’t read because it didn’t back up your claim. > [@](#): > > Nationalism and power is all Palestinians experience from Israel. However, I’ll allow that your definition includes some esoteric term that will make Israel occupation feel like a camomile tea. I take it you’re admitting that you have no idea what constitutes “a fascist government” and rather foolishly simply used the term because the word has such scary connotations. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-american-interest-in-alliance-with-israel/638038/107 "2012-10-21T16:00:38Z")
Can somebody explain to me what has happened in the Gaza Strip? When the Israelis left, the place had a functioning economy-now its a mess. The farms and orchards that the Israelis left have mostly been wrecked. Gaza was going to have an airport and a seaport-what happened to the schemes? Of course, if the Leviathan Gas Field comes through, Gaza might get some income. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-american-interest-in-alliance-with-israel/638038/108 "2012-10-21T18:10:32Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Can somebody explain to me what has happened in the Gaza Strip? When the Israelis left, the place had a functioning economy-now its a mess. The farms and orchards that the Israelis left have mostly been wrecked. Gaza was going to have an airport and a seaport-what happened to the schemes? Of course, if the Leviathan Gas Field comes through, Gaza might get some income. Well, Israel declaring and waging war against them doesn’t help. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-american-interest-in-alliance-with-israel/638038/109 "2012-10-22T00:24:49Z")
**What’s American interest in alliance with Israel?** We get dibs on new advances in cherry tomatoes. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-american-interest-in-alliance-with-israel/638038/110 "2012-10-22T05:16:15Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > A question which has numerous answers (including but not limited to someone being bigoted against Nigerians and not blacks) and which you not only keep insisting has only one, but one that you’re claiming you’ve tacitly been accused of to boot. I’ll again point out that you and those who make similar claims about me are the only people, in the entire known universe, who’d describe my debating style as something that amounts to ‘coy’, with a straight face. > > Other folks would understand that if you haven’t been called an anti-Semite, then you haven’t been called one. And as I can call arguments anti-Semitic all I want in GD, the idea that I really think your argument is anti-Semitic but I just don’t say so, is an absurdity. Especially since, in your case in specific, I’ve clarified repeatedly what exactly I’ve accused you of, and why. Your continued demand that I’ve really had a stealth-accusation lurking in the background is nonsensical. What?!?! So when I said that I have been called an anti-semite on this board and you said: “Which was zero times on the Dope. Ever. To be fair, we are only counting this universe. You may be correct in another universe.” Somehow, Brazil84’s comments don’t count? Maybe I’m being too sensitive but it really sounded like he was calling me an anti-semite. Are you also saying that there is no way someone can imply that you are an anti-semite without literally calling you an anti-semite? ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-american-interest-in-alliance-with-israel/638038/111 "2012-10-22T13:57:14Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I’m sorry but this comment is asinine. > > You accused the Israelis of starving the Gazans and then linked to a cite that either you hadn’t read or hoped we wouldn’t read because it didn’t back up your claim. Well, I admit, I expected Maher’s joke itself still stands even if you are not able to connect the two stories. I was hoping that you might get the gist of it and, even if you disagree, still have some respect for the idea. Alas, I did not expect to go back and explain the joke first. On a second reading, it might be a bit obtuse for those not accustomed to issues itching Bill Maher so I’ll do my best in elaborating it. So, the joke is about a female and the horrific conditions that workers in diamond mines are experiencing. Now, Maher point was that this specific female might have a slightly shifted set of priorities and beliefs when “Girl’s Best Friend” is in question. By understanding her follow-up question – on the stated fact that diamond mine workers hands are cut off if caught stealing – we realize that her immediate reaction is not one of horror and disgust but rather of a careful examination where essentially she is looking at any venue where she could “rationally” deal with this. Therefore her awkward follow-up question “Both of them?” exposes her thinking process working hard to attenuate the whole issue. One can therefore conclude that for her, it may not be all that horrific if only one hand was cut. However, hopefully we can agree that any outcome – one or both hands cut – is irrelevant as both of them constitute extremely inhumane and unusual punishment. Now, I’ll go - with a sarcastic tone, of course - into the connection to the story of Israelis counting calories and making sure that a minimum amount is being supplied – and nothing more – so that those pesky Palestinians can maintain a healthy standard of living thanks to advancements in modern food industry that actually writes caloric value on the packaging and warm thanks also go to a good-hearted Israeli military in maintaining a million and a half people in siege such a great success where they can proudly extol all the human aspects of it including “calorie count” feature. And trust you me sometimes those bar-code readers – you know, the Israel invention wink-wink – they sometimes malfunction so it is a quite heroic effort on the part of brave Israeli soldiers to sometimes count calories “manually”. The difference between me and you is that I find ANY type of siege of million and a half people – with or without calorie count - extremely inhumane and unusual punishment. Period. No debate. You seem to think – just like “diamond’s best friend” from Maher’s joke – that somehow this effort of making sure that actually starvation does not occur by the magic of “calorie count” is a-okay and only further demonstrates humanity is on the side of occupiers. In case you still don’t get it – and past performance strongly suggests that you don’t - I’ll just say: “Thank God that Serbs were not this “sophisticated” in managing [Sarajevo Siege](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Sarajevo) as I still might be in some Sarajevo basement counting calories from Dutch-made long time expired corn beef can. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I take it you’re admitting that you have no idea what constitutes “a fascist government” and rather foolishly simply used the term because the word has such scary connotations. There should be a new SDMB-originated \*\*\*Fallacy of I’m Smarter Than You \*\*\*that of which you’d be a representative sample. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-american-interest-in-alliance-with-israel/638038/112 "2012-10-22T15:29:35Z")
Of course I never said I supported Israel’s blockade of Gaza, I merely pointed out that your cite doesn’t claim what you said it did, but don’t let the facts get in the way of a good rant. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-american-interest-in-alliance-with-israel/638038/113 "2012-10-22T17:11:22Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > When was the last time anyone heard of anything new (that we like) coming out of any of the other nations of the Middle East? Well oil isn’t exactly new but… > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Newcomer, did you actually read your cite? > > It makes it clear that the calorie counts are to ensure Gazans don’t suffer from malnutrition. That’s the exact opposite of attempting to inflict “starvation” on them. It seemed pretty clear to me that there is a difference opf opinion. It seems clear that at least some people think that israel is limiting calorie counts (or at least they were). Its really hard to explain why people would smuggle food into Gaza. It seemed like a form of group punishment and the quotes from the Israeli diplomats saying that they were trying to keep Gaza’s economy on the verge of collapse was particularly damning. > [@newcomer](#): > > There should be a new SDMB-originated \*\*\*Fallacy of I’m Smarter Than You \*\*\*that of which you’d be a representative sample. This fallacy occurs a lot in Israel threads because A) the popular understanding of what is going on in Israel may not be accurate; B) there are a lot of people who have spent a lot of time and effort ratuionalizing bad behaviour on all sides and scoff ay anyone that don’t fully understand the constructed rationalizations; and C) unlike science, or economics, or even religion, the Middle East doesn’t make any fucking sense. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-american-interest-in-alliance-with-israel/638038/114 "2012-10-22T17:30:09Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > B) there are a lot of people who have spent a lot of time and effort ratuionalizing bad behaviour on all sides and scoff ay anyone that don’t fully understand the constructed rationalizations; and > > C) unlike science, or economics, or even religion, the Middle East doesn’t make any fucking sense. **C)** happens due to overdose of **B)**. Serb propaganda machine with mostly French and Russian “diplomats” was working hard on designation of Balkans wars as “they all committed war crimes” thus forgetting about “Serbs started every effn war in Balkans”. However, your Point C) – IMHO - is exactly the goal of creating “constructed rationalizations” or paradigms, as I refer to them. It’s somewhat wild idea but I think that long-term objective of Israel is to simply maintain this slow-burning “situation” and “manage” it as needed while their people continue to live in “the only democracy” by being a part to a game that keeps others in ME of becoming a democracy at all. Most people at one point just throw their arms up in the air and say it exactly as stated in Point C). It may also be that after this many years a habit is created and I’m not sure that generations that were born into Army consription and other features of Israel high-alert managament can even imagine living without worry. I can perhaps sympatize with that outlook. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-american-interest-in-alliance-with-israel/638038/115 "2012-10-22T17:46:31Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > **C)** happens due to overdose of **B)**. > > Serb propaganda machine with mostly French and Russian “diplomats” was working hard on designation of Balkans wars as “they all committed war crimes” thus forgetting about “Serbs started every effn war in Balkans”. > > However, your Point C) – IMHO - is exactly the goal of creating “constructed rationalizations” or paradigms, as I refer to them. It’s somewhat wild idea but I think that long-term objective of Israel is to simply maintain this slow-burning “situation” and “manage” it as needed while their people continue to live in “the only democracy” by being a part to a game that keeps others in ME of becoming a democracy at all. Most people at one point just throw their arms up in the air and say it exactly as stated in Point C). It may also be that after this many years a habit is created and I’m not sure that generations that were born into Army consription and other features of Israel high-alert managament can even imagine living without worry. I can perhaps sympatize with that outlook. So it’s Israel’s fault that functional democracies are scarce in the middle east? It’s all part of their master plan? Interesting POV. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-american-interest-in-alliance-with-israel/638038/116 "2012-10-22T17:55:54Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > This fallacy occurs a lot in Israel threads because > > A) the popular understanding of what is going on in Israel may not be accurate; > > B) there are a lot of people who have spent a lot of time and effort ratuionalizing bad behaviour on all sides and scoff ay anyone that don’t fully understand the constructed rationalizations; and > > C) unlike science, or economics, or even religion, the Middle East doesn’t make any fucking sense. I think a better summary is “this is a factually complex situation not capable of being sensibly understood by simplistic, black-and-white thinking based on stereotypes and talking points plucked from the news and various demogogues. However, for some reason, people feel compelled to have very strong views, even though they don’t actually know much about it. Moreover, what little they do know, they only know about the Arab-Israeli conflict, and are wholly unaware of the other major conflicts in the region, making them think, quite erroniously, that if their simplistic “solutions” to the Arab-Israeli conflict were adopted, all would be well in the region - they simply have no idea that the turmoil between Arabs and Israelis is part and parcel of turmoil generally in the region”. In another thread, I listed a bunch of major ME wars of the 20th - 21st century. The _total_ casualties from the Arab-Israeli wars were but a small fraction of that. Yet if you read threads on the Arab-Israeli situation, you’d think it was _the_ major threat in the region. Part of that is of course the fault of the international community, particularly the UN, of making a fetish of this situation while ignoring others. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-american-interest-in-alliance-with-israel/638038/117 "2012-10-22T18:05:12Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > There should be a new SDMB-originated \*\*\*Fallacy of I’m Smarter Than You \*\*\*that of which you’d be a representative sample. 1. You should note he wasn’t talking about your intelligence, but your factual knowledge of the situation. 2. He’s correct, and you evidently don’t know what the word “fascism” means or you’re using it incorrectly for effect. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-american-interest-in-alliance-with-israel/638038/118 "2012-10-22T21:08:44Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I think a better summary is “this is a factually complex situation not capable of being sensibly understood by simplistic, black-and-white thinking based on stereotypes and talking points plucked from the news and various demogogues. However, for some reason, people feel compelled to have very strong views, even though they don’t actually know much about it. Moreover, what little they do know, they only know about the Arab-Israeli conflict, and are wholly unaware of the other major conflicts in the region, making them think, quite erroniously, that if their simplistic “solutions” to the Arab-Israeli conflict were adopted, all would be well in the region - they simply have no idea that the turmoil between Arabs and Israelis is part and parcel of turmoil generally in the region”. > > In another thread, I listed a bunch of major ME wars of the 20th - 21st century. The _total_ casualties from the Arab-Israeli wars were but a small fraction of that. Yet if you read threads on the Arab-Israeli situation, you’d think it was _the_ major threat in the region. > > Part of that is of course the fault of the international community, particularly the UN, of making a fetish of this situation while ignoring others. Pretty much this nails the entire trajectory of every one of the threads on this subject during the history of this board. Simplistic black and white thinking about an extremely complex subject and a ridiculous focus on one aspect among the myriad that ACTUALLY impact the complex relationships among not just nations but regions and tribes in the region. Also, some serious ignorance about even the basics of the history concerning even that narrow focused topic, as well as some serious brain washing and drinking the propaganda kool-aid… ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-american-interest-in-alliance-with-israel/638038/119 "2012-10-23T00:11:05Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > 1. You should note he wasn’t talking about your intelligence, but your factual knowledge of the situation. He levels this charge against people fairly frequently. Much more than you do. People have successfully and succinctly explained a boatload of hairy topics on this board and yet, the Middle east conflict seems to be the only one where you keep hearing the “you don’t know enough about this topic to have a valid opinion” nonsense. Explain it. Tell people why their impression of what is going on is so incorrect as to provoke derision. Come on, fight our ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-american-interest-in-alliance-with-israel/638038/120 "2012-10-23T00:44:16Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > He levels this charge against people fairly frequently. Much more than you do. > > People have successfully and succinctly explained a boatload of hairy topics on this board and yet, the Middle east conflict seems to be the only one where you keep hearing the “you don’t know enough about this topic to have a valid opinion” nonsense. Had I said something like that to him you’d have a point, but I didn’t so you don’t. Newcomer rather foolishly claimed Israel had “a fascist government”, I asked him if he knew what the term meant and to explain why Israel was “fascist.” He huffed and puffed and promptly dodged the question. In short, I didn’t accuse him of not knowing anything about the Middle East or the Israeli conflict, but not knowing what “fascist” referred to. I’d have done the same for anyone who accused Barack Obama of being a “socialist” or a “communist” and calling the Israeli government “fascist” is as dumb as calling Obama a “socialist”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-american-interest-in-alliance-with-israel/638038.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-american-interest-in-alliance-with-israel/638038.md?page=7)