# What's behind the backlash against health/nutrition issues in the schools? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2011, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432 "2011-11-19T09:18:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/141 "2011-11-22T12:41:23Z")
I remember being served in high school pizza, french fries, corn, and fruit cocktail (canned fruit in heavy syrup). Oh yes, with either milk or fruit punch. Pizza AND french fries? Potatoes AND corn? I swear that even though I’m not a dummy and I try not to wreck my health, when I’m trying to figure out what to eat for dinner sometimes I will consider “pizza and french fries” as an option. The things we eat as kids DO follow us into adulthood. My parents did not serve fresh vegetables, so I grew up not eating them either (now I love them, but frequently they don’t make it to my dinner table.) My father, bless him, used to serve hotdogs (wrapped in sandwich bread) and fried rice, with chicken noodle soup as the “vegetable”. And blue soda! I recognize that this meal is not healthy, but there’s still this idea lurking in the back of my head that it isn’t THAT bad, since I ate like this as a kid and hey, I survived! I wonder if kids “back in the day” ate better diets at home than they did now. There was less prepackaged stuff, people did not eat out as frequently, sodas were a luxury, and there was a gate-keeper (stay at home mother, grandmother, baby-sitter, etc.) frequently guarding the refrigerator. So if they ate crap at school, well, it wasn’t THAT big of a deal. But dinners now are microwavable affairs. Or calorie-laden take-out. Breakfast, too, has devolved into chocolate-covered Pop Tarts and Gogurts, rather than scrabbled eggs and oatmeal. There is less “evening out” of the diet. You eat crap all day long. That ain’t good. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/142 "2011-11-22T13:49:31Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Someone who does not understand the issue. Someone who thinks the government is going to ask “what did your child have for breakfast?” Someone who is so partisan that they must automatically be against it because it was proposed by a Democrat. Or somebody who [reads the SDMB](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=604369&highlight=Shodan+lunch). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/143 "2011-11-22T13:58:26Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > What do you consider “relatively recently”? I graduated high school in 1975, which was two trimesters ahead of time, so I was going to school in the 1960s and 70s. > > For the most part, I went to school in Texas. In grades 2-5, we had calisthenics three days a week. In grades 6-12, we had mostly sports instruction in the general PE class. That is, we’d do a segment on baseball, then one on tennis, one on bowling, one on basketball, etc. We had almost NO instruction on actual physical fitness. Our teachers’ goals were to turn out kids who could play sports. They didn’t care if we could use these skills after we’d graduated. > > I was never taught how to use weights in order to increase my strength or fitness, nor was I taught about aerobic exercise. The girls in PE were allowed to walk and jog around the track if they’d forgotten (or said they’d forgotten) their uniforms, and that was about the extent of our aerobic training. I was never taught which exercises I should do for health improvement, or how to do them. Nope, it was SPORTS SPORTS SPORTS all the way. Not much had changed into the 80s, when it was still mostly sports. Those of us who weren’t all that coordinated (like me) learned to hate sports, but we weren’t taught much about overall fitness, and that fitness was still important. So we skipped out after roll call and smoked cigarettes in the parking lot while the jocks did their thing. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/144 "2011-11-22T17:15:19Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I don’t think being skinny, and then getting fat, is a particularly unique experience. How about being fat, then skinny, then fat, then skinny, then fat, then skinny, then fat…? etc. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/145 "2011-11-22T17:53:11Z")
Oprah, is that you? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/146 "2011-11-22T18:16:23Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Or somebody who [reads the SDMB](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=604369&highlight=Shodan+lunch). > > Regards, > Shodan Government = bad Democrats = Evil Thinking = off got it. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/147 "2011-11-22T18:23:13Z")
Your post = drivel. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/148 "2011-11-23T00:21:22Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Your post = drivel. > > Regards, > Shodan Oooh, you cut me to the quick with your rapier-like wit. I will go and recant my heretical views now. Enjoy your pizza while you can - Mrs. Obama is coming for it! (they’re going to keep all the pizza and guns in a big vault, all to themselves!) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/149 "2011-11-23T00:39:02Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I wonder if kids “back in the day” ate better diets at home than they did now. There was less prepackaged stuff, people did not eat out as frequently, sodas were a luxury, and there was a gate-keeper (stay at home mother, grandmother, baby-sitter, etc.) frequently guarding the refrigerator. So if they ate crap at school, well, it wasn’t THAT big of a deal. But dinners now are microwavable affairs. Or calorie-laden take-out. Breakfast, too, has devolved into chocolate-covered Pop Tarts and Gogurts, rather than scrabbled eggs and oatmeal. There is less “evening out” of the diet. You eat crap all day long. That ain’t good. Back in the day could easily be classified as BC (before computers). During the summer I averaged 100 miles a day on my bike. OK, not 7 days a week but when I hit the road I really did ride at least 100 miles. Even when I was old enough to drive I went out with friends and we played outdoors. We really were active back then. I’ll just go out on a limb and pronounce our school lunches as less than optimal by any standard anybody wants to toss out. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/150 "2011-11-23T00:53:18Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Back in the day could easily be classified as BC (before computers). During the summer I averaged 100 miles a day on my bike. OK, not 7 days a week but when I hit the road I really did ride at least 100 miles. Even when I was old enough to drive I went out with friends and we played outdoors. We really were active back then. I’ll just go out on a limb and pronounce our school lunches as less than optimal by any standard anybody wants to toss out. I don’t know why you keep making this into a dichotomy. The federal government cannot control how much physical activity kids get. It can’t take people’s computers away and force kids to ride 100 miles per day on their bikes. But it can control what kind of lunches schools prepare. No one is saying that changing the lunches alone will make kids lose weight. But it would hypocritical for the government to advocate healthy lifestyles while turning a blind-eye tothe pizza-and-french-fries meals it is subsidizing. Especially since the kids who rely on school lunches the most–poor kids–are the main ones who are at increased risk of obesity. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/151 "2011-11-23T01:14:16Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Especially since the kids who rely on school lunches the most–poor kids–are the main ones who are at increased risk of obesity. Well there’s the rub isn’t it? Perhaps the poor and undernourished need wider girth and expanded guidelines in their daily caloric, fat, sodium, carbohydrate, and other sugar intake. Perhaps they benefit from that diet in opposition to the mean? Take away that and you might be doing more harm than good. Our children need the food without restrictions. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/152 "2011-11-23T01:49:39Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I don’t know why you keep making this into a dichotomy. > > The federal government cannot control how much physical activity kids get. It can’t take people’s computers away and force kids to ride 100 miles per day on their bikes. But it can control what kind of lunches schools prepare. > > No one is saying that changing the lunches alone will make kids lose weight. But it would hypocritical for the government to advocate healthy lifestyles while turning a blind-eye tothe pizza-and-french-fries meals it is subsidizing. Especially since the kids who rely on school lunches the most–poor kids–are the main ones who are at increased risk of obesity. I see it as a dichotomy because the better lunches of today are losing ground to the BMI increases. We can assume the government is attempting to solve the problem through school meals because there are now school systems with breakfast lunch and dinner. I guess time will tell if it works but it hasn’t so far. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/153 "2011-11-23T01:55:03Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > The school my kids attend and the school a friend’s kids attend restrict what can be brought from home for lunch. I’m curious-- what kind of restrictions are they? Is it like: “No peanut butter” because of allergies? Or is it: “All lunches brought from home must have three green, leafy vegetables”? ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/154 "2011-11-23T02:04:24Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > Criticizing people’s food choices feels like criticizing who they are. It’s the kind of thing where you have to tread carefully, particularly if people perceive you as coming from a more privileged background than they do. But the criticism is really of the food choices made by government institutions, isn’t it? Criticizing the government is certainly fair game, as I’m sure our ultra-conservative brethren would agree. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/155 "2011-11-23T02:27:10Z")
Oh, I’m not arguing that any of the backlash is in any way _reasonable_. Just that I can sort of understand why this would be touchy emotional territory for a lot of people. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/156 "2011-11-23T04:59:56Z")
Something that pisses me off about my son’s school is that they serve “breakfast” which is things like cinnamon rolls, sticky buns, and those giant muffins. Nothing healthy. And here’s the part that gets me: We provide him with cereal, eggs, oatmeal, and other options for breakfast at home. We noticed (their website has a monitoring feature where you can see what food your kid is getting) that he was buying breakfasts at school. We can’t afford to pay for both breakfasts and lunches, especially when we’re buying him breakfast food at home. So we called the school and asked that they not allow him to spend his lunch money on breakfasts (causing him to run out of lunch money sooner, and us needing to send in more money) and their reply was that they “wouldn’t turn away a hungry child.” So we stopped sending in money. And you know what? They still give him the food. I have no idea who is paying for it, but we consistently see muffins and sweet rolls on his account. And yes, we’ve talked to him about it and told him to stop it, but he’s 16 and doesn’t listen. It would be different if they offered healthy choices. If they did that, we might stop buying breakfast supplies at home and let him eat breakfast at school… but when they’re essentially serving cake for breakfast… well, we’re not going to pay for that. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/157 "2011-11-23T14:43:31Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > Well there’s the rub isn’t it? Perhaps the poor and undernourished need wider girth and expanded guidelines in their daily caloric, fat, sodium, carbohydrate, and other sugar intake. Perhaps they benefit from that diet in opposition to the mean? Take away that and you might be doing more harm than good. Our children need the food without restrictions. For someone who claims to know a lot about nutrition, you sure sound ignorant on the topic. You referred to the “poor and undernourished,” but I don’t think you’re addressing the whole picture. You seem to be concerned only of underfed children while you are completely ignoring fed, but _malnourished_ children. The impoverished children that benefit from the National School Lunch Program include not only children who are regularly missing meals at home, but children whose diet is _deficient in necessary nutrients_ whether they are being fed at home or not. [QUOTE=Johns Hopkins Children’s Center] Malnutrition is the condition that develops when the body is deprived of vitamins, minerals, and other nutrients it needs to maintain healthy tissues and organ function. Malnutrition occurs in people who are either undernourished or overnourished. Today, in the U.S., more children suffer from malnutrition due to dietary imbalances rather than nutritional deficiencies. [Link](http://www.hopkinschildrens.org/tpl_rlinks_nav1up.aspx?id=5134) [/QUOTE] In what way is feeding children foods that make them fat, diabetic, hypertensive and malnourished an improvement over feeding children foods that provide them a balance of nutrients that promotes overall health? If impoverished children are perhaps not being fed or are subsisting on food with very little nutritional value at home, it makes it even more critical that they receive proper nutrition at school, does it not? All children require a balance of fat, protein and carbohydrates, vitamins and minerals, whether they are impoverished or not. Feeding children (or anyone) an imbalance of macronutrients does not make them healthier. The problem is not just a paucity of food, and it is for some, but a paucity of nutrition. By ignoring the quality of food provided to children, the problem of malnourishment is exacerbated, only in slightly different ways. Instead of having thin and weak, malnourished children, we have fat, malnourished children with a variety of diet-related health problems. The end result is still a dearth of healthy children. Lastly, the NSLP does not just feed impoverished children, providing meals to children who are potentially missing meals and children who are being fed an imbalanced diet, they are also feeding children who are receiving sensible meals at home (whether impoverished or not). It’s bad policy to provide food for those children that undermine the healthy choices parents are making at home. **OpalCat** ’s anecdote about her son being fed sweet breakfasts at school over her objection is a perfect example of that and one many parents (including myself) decry. The irony is that as a taxpayer, OpalCat is paying for that program that is doing her own family a disservice. As a taxpayer and parent, shouldn’t her say with regard to the program that feeds her child have more weight than the sweet roll vendor’s? **OpalCat** , I suggest you inform the school that the high sugar sweet rolls they are allowing your son to eat are exacerbating a pre-diabetic condition and they are in danger of seriously harming your son’s health by not “turning away a hungry child” and putting a buttload of sugar in his hands. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/158 "2011-11-23T21:51:17Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > And yes, we’ve talked to him about it and told him to stop it, but he’s 16 and doesn’t listen. take it out of his allowance. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/159 "2011-11-23T22:27:46Z")
He doesn’t get an allowance. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/160 "2011-11-23T22:56:37Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > He doesn’t get an allowance. maybe you could sue the school for providing him with unnecessary/harmful calories against your specific instructions, then give him an allowance so you can THEN take it away. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432.md?page=9)