# What's behind the backlash against health/nutrition issues in the schools? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2011, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432 "2011-11-19T09:18:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/161 "2011-11-23T23:09:38Z")
The funny thing is we’ve tried to give him an allowance in the past, and told him that it was his responsibility to come to us and ask for it. Invariably he’d get it for a week or two then never ask us for it again. If he asked for an allowance now, we’d start giving him one. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/162 "2011-11-24T04:25:35Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > The PE system in America is totally flawed and worthless when it comes to actually educating kids about physical fitness, because it’s still, as far as I know, fixated on sports and making kids “participate” in sports like baseball, basketball, football, soccer, etc… I’m 25 and that’s how most of my HS gym classes worked. Except for the Presidential Fitness Tests & odd joint activity with the female PE teacher all the male PE teachers did either football or basketball depending on the weather. They wouldn’t really “teach” anything either; they just assumed we already knew what were doing and got annoyed (or downright hostile) whenever anyone asked for instruction. I was actually told by one of them “it’s not my job to teach you anything”. They were very much coaches first. I hated every single fucking one of them. For what it’s worth apparently they were pretty good coaches, but as teacher they sucked. And they got away with talking to and treating us in away that would’ve gotten other teachers fired. The 1 female PE teacher on the other hand was pretty good. She constantly did different activities, always provided instruction, and manged to motivate her students without being hostile, insulting their masculinity (or femininty as the case may be), and made and effort to teach health realted stuff as well. Oddly she was the same age as most of the male teachers, and older than 1 or 2 of them so it can’t be strictly related to what model they were taught in college. > [@Serpentine](#): > > We had a class like that offered as an elective. I took it, and so did many others in my high school. My HS offered both strenght training and circut training as an elective (1 class). But it was in addition to, not instead of regular gym classes. :smack: And only student atheletes were allowed to take it. The girls teacher did make an attempt to do circut training as an activity, but she was shut down by the administration because we “weren’t learning anything”. She later admited the real reason the the principal didn’t want regular students putting any wear on the machines. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Dunkelheit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dunkelheit/32/248_2.png) [@Dunkelheit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunkelheit)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/163 "2011-11-25T18:48:50Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Not that that is easy. Kids like pizza and tater tots. They eat pizza and tater tots. Try feeding them spinach salad and whole grain bread and many of them won’t eat. But I think we can do better. Can we at least feed them whole-grain pizza with actual vegetables on it? That may be one way to soften the blow, from the kids’ perspective at least. Make the healthy food resemble the stuff they already like, introduce new foods that way, and get them used to making their favourites out of healthier alternatives. I think Home Economics is one area where this could really be educational, though I don’t know how common that is in today’s schools. If kids are taught how to make tasty food for themselves out of healthy ingredients and how to experiment to learn to use new foods, they’re more likely to take away the lesson than if it’s just handed to them on a cafeteria tray. I don’t remember precisely what we learned to cook in HE back in the dark ages when I was taking it, but I seem to recall it relied heavily on biscuit mix. Granted, we learned how to make our OWN biscuit mix, so even that could be an opportunity to introduce healthier whole-food alternatives to white flour and white sugar. One of the biggest problems with the “food desert” thing in my experience, is even when you make the healthy foods more readily available, the people often don’t know what to do with it. There is a “Good Food Club” in the low-income inner-city neighbourhood where I used to live and work in Canada, which aims to address the urban food desert problem and low income food insecurity problem in a variety of ways. First of all, they make healthy food available by growing some of it themselves on a donated portion of a local organic farm. Members of the club go out every week to work on the farm and bring whatever’s ready to harvest back to the neighbourhood, where it’s sorted into grocery bags and other members line up to get their bags for something like a couple of dollars per bag. They also sell some of the produce at local farmers’ markets. During the winter, they do bulk-buying of organic and whole foods and sort that into boxes for distribution to members who pay a relatively low annual fee (I think) to be part of it. In my experience the fee was much less than it would cost to get the same foods individually, even if they were available within easy reach. Which they aren’t in that area, especially if you don’t have your own transportation. The local Safeway is the most expensive one in town, and the rest of the stores within walking distance are tiny corner shops with mostly processed packaged foods like hot dogs and Kraft dinner, nothing fresh or wholesome to speak of. In addition to growing and bulk-buying veggies and other whole foods, they have community cafes where members cook and serve food to other members, which provides an opportunity to learn how to prepare different dishes as well as being a focal point for activity and interaction. They also have cooking classes where members learn to cook different things, so that they’ll know what to do with the contents of their bags and boxes. I was in on the inception of this club, and it’s amazing that they’re still going several years later, though it’s by no means self-supporting and requires continuous funding. I don’t know where the funding is coming from these days, but I’m glad that somebody sees it as important enough to help keep it going. Members love getting out of town to spend time in the countryside, working on the farm, learning to use tools and drive the tractor and such, get some good exercise, and come home with fresh food they grew themselves. They love getting together to learn how to cook new things, and sharing the experience with others in a social setting. They love the fact that somebody thinks they’re worthwhile enough to be concerned that they have access to decent food. I only wish it weren’t so rare. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/164 "2011-11-25T19:04:03Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > Something that pisses me off about my son’s school is that they serve “breakfast” which is things like cinnamon rolls, sticky buns, and those giant muffins. Nothing healthy. And here’s the part that gets me: We provide him with cereal, eggs, oatmeal, and other options for breakfast at home. We noticed (their website has a monitoring feature where you can see what food your kid is getting) that he was buying breakfasts at school. We can’t afford to pay for both breakfasts and lunches, especially when we’re buying him breakfast food at home. So we called the school and asked that they not allow him to spend his lunch money on breakfasts (causing him to run out of lunch money sooner, and us needing to send in more money) and their reply was that they “wouldn’t turn away a hungry child.” > > So we stopped sending in money. > > And you know what? They still give him the food. I have no idea who is paying for it, but we consistently see muffins and sweet rolls on his account. And yes, we’ve talked to him about it and told him to stop it, but he’s 16 and doesn’t listen. > > It would be different if they offered healthy choices. If they did that, we might stop buying breakfast supplies at home and let him eat breakfast at school… but when they’re essentially serving cake for breakfast… well, we’re not going to pay for that. And what was his punishment? ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/165 "2011-11-25T19:26:55Z")
He got a stern talking to. It’s extremely hard to punish him, as most of his activities are already restricted because of his grades. It’s not like I can spank him or anything. It’s very frustrating. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2011, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/166 "2011-11-26T08:19:03Z")
Yeah, that would stink. I guess if there’s something you can do, do it. I mean, otherwise he just knows he can get away with it. Actually – on a broader scale – this is what goes in in most households. Parents have no control over what kids are eating for a variety of reasons. Schools aren’t exactly helping. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2011, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/167 "2011-11-26T22:22:21Z")
> [@Jeneva](#): > > Granted, we learned how to make our OWN biscuit mix, so even that could be an opportunity to introduce healthier whole-food alternatives to white flour and white sugar. What’s wrong with white flour and white sugar? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/168 "2011-11-27T00:16:00Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > What’s wrong with white flour and white sugar? Nothing, in moderation. Actually the argument against white flour is in the lack of fiber, with whole meal flour the bran layer which is pretty much entirely fiber is included. Back in the mid 70s when I took home ec, the cooking segment had us make dinner - a broiled steak, baked potatoes, a can of peas reheated in a saucepan on stovetop, and bisquik biscuits, and ice cream for dessert. As far as I am concerned, not cooking at all, just various forms of reheating. I had learned enough cooking that by the age of 8 I could make a souffle. I was already cooking using the Joy of Cooking cookbook. Sewing was making a fairly basic kitchen apron :rolleyes: and I had already learned to do the type of embroidery usually found in a turn of the century hope chest thanks to my grandmother. I could do padded white on white embroidery, reticella lace, tatted lace, bargello, petit point, counted cross stitch, pretty much everything except knit and crochet. I still can’t knit:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/169 "2011-11-27T03:25:25Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > He got a stern talking to. It’s extremely hard to punish him, as most of his activities are already restricted because of his grades. It’s not like I can spank him or anything. It’s very frustrating. He’s old enough to make some of these decisions for himself. In two years, he might be away at college and will have to budget his money…you might as well start helping him to figure out how to do that now. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/170 "2011-11-27T03:28:05Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > He’s old enough to make some of these decisions for himself. In two years, he might be away at college and will have to budget his money…you might as well start helping him to figure out how to do that now. I disagree. Kids who are under your roof are still under your roof. If they can’t follow rules, there should be consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/171 "2011-11-27T03:33:40Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > I disagree. Kids who are under your roof are still under your roof. If they can’t follow rules, there should be consequences. I don’t disagree with you, actually…if that’s the rule Opal wants to lay down, then yes, he’s got to follow it. I’m just questioning the reasonableness of this particular rule. I think it’s not reasonable (given this particular kid’s age), and I think if you have unreasonable rules, you are setting yourself up for trouble down the road. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/172 "2011-11-27T03:34:37Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Back in the mid 70s when I took home ec, the cooking segment had us make dinner - a broiled steak, baked potatoes, a can of peas reheated in a saucepan on stovetop, and bisquik biscuits, and ice cream for dessert. As far as I am concerned, not cooking at all, just various forms of reheating. I had learned enough cooking that by the age of 8 I could make a souffle. I was already cooking using the Joy of Cooking cookbook. For kids whose parents don’t cook, learning to broil a steak and make a baked potato is a very valuable skill. It might be intuitive to us how to make that stuff, but if no one’s ever taken the time to show kids, how can they be expected to know? I think about that a lot when I shop for groceries, how a lot of people don’t have the first clue how to prepare a lot of the things in the produce section, or the meat section. I think that’s why people buy soooo many convenience, processed foods that reside in the aisles of the store. I mostly shop the outer edges, because I make all of our meals here at home and I wouldn’t feel comfortable giving my family mac and cheese that came from a box. But again, I was in the kitchen with my mom and grandmas my whole childhood. It’s easy to take that for granted until you remember how many people don’t have anyone like that to teach them. I also think home ec classes could teach kids how to find recipes and instructions, in books, online, whatever. And throughout all of these lessons, the running message of better nutrition could be peppered in. ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/173 "2011-11-27T07:58:20Z")
partisan politics and money from food companies. I also suspect that it’s part of the theme of designing failure for anyone not wealthy enough to go to private school. The country needs a lot of victims to fuel the blood sucking machines. ---
**Author:** ![Dunkelheit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dunkelheit/32/248_2.png) [@Dunkelheit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunkelheit)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/174 "2011-11-27T13:30:49Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > What’s wrong with white flour and white sugar? They’re rather devoid of things like fiber, minerals, vitamins, phytonutrients, etc. and they fill you up with empty calories that could have been provided by more wholesome, complete foods. A diet that consists mainly of starch and sugar is not healthy, even for those in whom it doesn’t trigger diabetes or obesity. ---
**Author:** ![Dunkelheit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dunkelheit/32/248_2.png) [@Dunkelheit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunkelheit)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/175 "2011-11-27T13:36:45Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > For kids whose parents don’t cook, learning to broil a steak and make a baked potato is a very valuable skill. It might be intuitive to us how to make that stuff, but if no one’s ever taken the time to show kids, how can they be expected to know? > > I think about that a lot when I shop for groceries, how a lot of people don’t have the first clue how to prepare a lot of the things in the produce section, or the meat section. I think that’s why people buy soooo many convenience, processed foods that reside in the aisles of the store. I mostly shop the outer edges, because I make all of our meals here at home and I wouldn’t feel comfortable giving my family mac and cheese that came from a box. But again, I was in the kitchen with my mom and grandmas my whole childhood. It’s easy to take that for granted until you remember how many people don’t have anyone like that to teach them. > > I also think home ec classes could teach kids how to find recipes and instructions, in books, online, whatever. And throughout all of these lessons, the running message of better nutrition could be peppered in. I agree, that’s why the Good Food Club I described in my earlier post is so helpful. When they started making whole foods such as vegetables more accessible to the neighbourhood, a lot of people had no idea what to do with them. The cooking classes and community cafes provided a good way to learn how to cook as well as what to cook, for people whose knowledge didn’t extend far past hot dogs and boxes of Kraft Dinner. Home Ec should certainly be focusing on cooking from scratch as much as possible, and including nutritional instruction throughout. Anyone can follow the instructions on a box, but actual cooking takes practice. ---
**Author:** ![Imasquare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Imasquare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imasquare)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432/176 "2011-11-29T22:53:50Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Because of this - > The federal government is a blunt instrument. Blunt instruments are not the tool to fix everything. > > The correct, default answer to any question the government asks of me is “That is none of your fucking business”. This includes the question “what did your child have for breakfast?” The fact that the next door neighbor kid is fat does not change this. > > Regards, > Shodan How is the government refusing to allow the sale of unhealthy food in public schools the same as asking what your child had for breakfast? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-behind-the-backlash-against-health-nutrition-issues-in-the-schools/603432.md?page=8)