# What's Christian about Lewis' Narnia? (Open Spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 29, 2005, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-christian-about-lewis-narnia-open-spoilers/333197 "2005-11-29T13:52:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-christian-about-lewis-narnia-open-spoilers/333197/1 "2005-11-29T13:52:14Z")
I never read it. It is a Christ analogy, or what? ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-christian-about-lewis-narnia-open-spoilers/333197/2 "2005-11-29T14:00:13Z")
Yes, very much so. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-christian-about-lewis-narnia-open-spoilers/333197/3 "2005-11-29T14:01:03Z")
Okay! Answered. Next thread! ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-christian-about-lewis-narnia-open-spoilers/333197/4 "2005-11-29T14:19:49Z")
The first book (yeah, I know, but it’s really the first book) is _The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe_ and it sort of drips with symbolism… although, to be fair, it’s reasonably subtle. I’m doing this from memory and a recent discussion with my son, so forgive me if I goof slightly. But the central point is that the god-like Lion willingly allows himself to be sacrificed, but he knows (and we don’t) that anyone willingly sacrificed on that magical altar will come back to life. So, he comes back to life … and defeats the forces of evil. So, that’s sorta blatant. If you didn’t understand the symbolism, of course, you’d think it was _deus ex machina_ which, of course, it is… literally. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-christian-about-lewis-narnia-open-spoilers/333197/5 "2005-11-29T14:31:36Z")
Do a search on ‘Narnia’ and you’ll find several threads about this exact question. As for me… I read the books for the first time when I was a kid, in Catholic school no less, and the symbolism went right over my head. Even as an adult, the symbolism isn’t over-the-top as far as I’m concerned. The first book is the most symbol-ridden, and, as **C K Dexter Haven** said, it’s pretty much the Christ story. But then again, I like symbolism and remakes. I put TLTWATW in the same category as, for example, any one of a number of movies/plays/books that retell the Greek myths. It doesn’t bother me. On the other hand, all the blatent over-the-top marketing of Narnia that I see everywhere now makes me really depressed. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-christian-about-lewis-narnia-open-spoilers/333197/6 "2005-11-29T14:32:46Z")
OH yeah, sorry about the spoiler that **C K** so nicely put in spoiler boxes and I just blurted out. But the OP does say “Open spoilers” so I’m not THAT sorry. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-christian-about-lewis-narnia-open-spoilers/333197/7 "2005-11-29T14:49:21Z")
I’ll echo what everyone else has said. I didn’t read them until recently and my codgerey old self didn’t appreciate being battered about the head with so much blatant symbolism. I read them in the order Lewis wanted them read because that’s the order they were in in the anthology I bought. The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe is not as bad as the rest of them and I think it’s just fine as a standalone book. I really wish I hadn’t read the last one. Guess what?! You’re all dead! ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-christian-about-lewis-narnia-open-spoilers/333197/8 "2005-11-29T14:56:58Z")
Slight hijack… I couldn’t resist picking up ‘the last battle’ from [audible.com](http://audible.com) when I realized that it was being narrated by Jean-luc Picard… I mean Professor X, erm… Patrick Stewart. 😃 Very interesting, I’ve been enjoying parts of it quite a lot, (especially the narration,) and reading parts of it against the grain like crazy. (Or should that be… listening against the grain??) For instance, I’m pretty sure that Lewis didn’t mean to point out the purely practical value of faith in Aslan as a social force binding the diverse races of Narnians and Archenlanders together in co-operation, thus enabling them to hold off invasion from the numerically superior and homogenous Calormenes. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-christian-about-lewis-narnia-open-spoilers/333197/9 "2005-11-29T15:07:53Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > On the other hand, all the blatent over-the-top marketing of Narnia that I see everywhere now makes me really depressed. I’ve loved the Narnia books for years, am totally looking forward to the movie, and also am a Christian. last night, on the shelves of the store where I work- "The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe… Lip Balm". :eek: And I asked myself- would C.S. Lewis be more disgusted or amused? ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-christian-about-lewis-narnia-open-spoilers/333197/10 "2005-11-29T15:28:14Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > The first book is the most symbol-ridden, and, as **C K Dexter Haven** said, it’s pretty much the Christ story. Whoa momma, I don’t think so. I am reading the books to my girlfriend as she never read them growing up, and the first book is mild in comparison with some of the others. It also seems to hold up better as a story outside the symbolism. I just finished Voyage of the Dawn Treader, and the same does not hold true. Not the best of books. The homicidally brave talking mouse was the one redeeming feature. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-christian-about-lewis-narnia-open-spoilers/333197/11 "2005-11-29T15:29:48Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > And I asked myself- would C.S. Lewis be more disgusted or amused? He may not have been thrilled with a live-action flick to begin with: **Author CS Lewis opposed screen version of "Narnia"** [http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051129/film\_nm/arts\_narnia\_dc](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051129/film_nm/arts_narnia_dc) > [@](#): > > Although Lewis, who died in 1963, said he would have considered a cartoon version, his letter suggests he is unlikely to have approved of Disney’s interpretation, particularly its computer-generated Aslan. > > “Anthropomorphic animals, when taken out of narrative into actual visibility, always turn into buffoonery or nightmare – at least with photography,” he wrote. > > “Cartoons (if only Disney did not combine so much vulgarity with his genius!) would be another matter. A human, pantomime, Aslan would be, to me, blasphemy.” But I wonder if he might have been swayed by what CGI can accomplish. I think he was worried about how silly a dude in a lion suit would look, obviously CGI looks better than that. ---
**Author:** ![Alias](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@Alias](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alias)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-christian-about-lewis-narnia-open-spoilers/333197/12 "2005-11-29T15:35:56Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > He may not have been thrilled with a live-action flick to begin with: > **Author CS Lewis opposed screen version of "Narnia"** > [http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051129/film\_nm/arts\_narnia\_dc](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051129/film_nm/arts_narnia_dc) > But I wonder if he might have been swayed by what CGI can accomplish. I think he was worried about how silly a dude in a lion suit would look, obviously CGI looks better than that. I scared the hell out of my mother before the movie started being marketed. She asked me how I thought they were going to deal with Aslan, and I told her that some guy was just going to wear Burt Lahr’s old costume from The Wizard of Oz. Her eyes got really frightened for second before she realized I was joking. ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-christian-about-lewis-narnia-open-spoilers/333197/13 "2005-11-29T15:36:06Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > He may not have been thrilled with a live-action flick to begin with: > **Author CS Lewis opposed screen version of "Narnia"** > [http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051129/film\_nm/arts\_narnia\_dc](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051129/film_nm/arts_narnia_dc) > But I wonder if he might have been swayed by what CGI can accomplish. I think he was worried about how silly a dude in a lion suit would look, obviously CGI looks better than that. Well, you could certainly argue that CGI _is_ a cartoon, just using a vastly different technology than was available for cartooning in his day. You are probably right that he was more concerned with someone in a furry suit or some sort of Mr. Ed type effect. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-christian-about-lewis-narnia-open-spoilers/333197/14 "2005-11-29T15:38:43Z")
> [@](#): > > But I wonder if he might have been swayed by what CGI can accomplish. I think he was worried about how silly a dude in a lion suit would look, obviously CGI looks better than that. I think he would’ve been impressed. In his day he probably had animal costumes,. or the relatively crudely anmimated “Speaking of Animals” type of images in mind (They hand-drew animal mouths moving over movies of animals and put “witty” sayings in their mouths. Even with veteran animatorsd like Tex Avery doing it, it looked awful.) But CGI images look absolutely flawless, done properly. They already _have_ done a cartoon version of The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, which was my daughter’s introduction to the series. To tell the truth, the upcoming movie looks enormously better thanm that very limited animation. I think Lewis would’ve approved, at least of the look. we’ll have to see what they do with the soul of the film, though. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-christian-about-lewis-narnia-open-spoilers/333197/15 "2005-11-29T15:38:59Z")
I’ll echo what **Dex** and **Athena** said. As a kid, I had no idea. Rereading LWW as an adult, I couldn’t believe how I could have missed it – Aslan’s story is exactly Christ’s. To the extent I remember, the other books are less literal translations of Christian mythology, but read with the appropriate eye, you can see their heavily influence. (To the extent I remember – I haven’t read past “Dawn Treader” since high school, as my copy of “Silver Chair” is buried in my storage room somewhere.) For instance, in book 3 (Voyage of the Dawn Treader, regardless of the fact that all the current editions pretent it’s book 5), the very nasty Eustace Scrubb is punished for his wickedness by being transformed into a dragon – as soon as he truly repents his evil ways, he is restored. Tell me that’s not a Christ allegory. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-christian-about-lewis-narnia-open-spoilers/333197/16 "2005-11-29T15:41:39Z")
> [@C K Dexter Haven](#): > > The first book (yeah, I know, but it’s really the first book) is _The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe_ and it sort of drips with symbolism… although, to be fair, it’s reasonably subtle. I’m doing this from memory and a recent discussion with my son, so forgive me if I goof slightly. But the central point is that the god-like Lion willingly allows himself to be sacrificed, but he knows (and we don’t) that anyone willingly sacrificed on that magical altar will come back to life. So, he comes back to life … and defeats the forces of evil. > > So, that’s sorta blatant. If you didn’t understand the symbolism, of course, you’d think it was _deus ex machina_ which, of course, it is… literally. Only a minuscule goof-ette: The Deep Magic from the Dawn of Time specified that the White Witch could kill traitors (more or less). But the Deeper Magic from Before the Dawn of Time specified that a willing substitute would cause Death itself to go into reverse. It wasn’t the magical altar especially. Of course, the White Witch wasn’t a native of the Narnia world in the first place, but entered it from her own ruined world of Charn, where she was the Empress Jadis, at the very hour of Narnia’s Creation, so what she was doing assuming the mantle of the thief of souls in Aslan’s world is anyone’s guess. But then no doubt the Emperor-Over-Sea, being omniscient, knew that Jadis would enter the world, eat the apple and become deathless. So as long as she was there, she might as well have some official standing. And yes, TLTW&TW is indeed the first book, whatever Jack may have agreeably said to a young fan. ---
**Author:** ![Glassy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ea666f/32.png) [@Glassy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glassy)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-christian-about-lewis-narnia-open-spoilers/333197/17 "2005-11-29T15:47:42Z")
> [@flight](#): > > I just finished Voyage of the Dawn Treader, and the same does not hold true. Not the best of books. The homicidally brave talking mouse was the one redeeming feature. VOTDT is my favorite. 🙂 I think that what happens to Eustace is great storytelling, Christian symbolism or no Christian symbolism. Wonderful book. ---
**Author:** ![chefjef](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e480ec/32.png) [@chefjef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chefjef)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-christian-about-lewis-narnia-open-spoilers/333197/18 "2005-11-29T15:55:48Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I think he would’ve been impressed. In his day he probably had animal costumes,. or the relatively crudely anmimated “Speaking of Animals” type of images in mind (They hand-drew animal mouths moving over movies of animals and put “witty” sayings in their mouths. Even with veteran animatorsd like Tex Avery doing it, it looked awful.) But CGI images look absolutely flawless, done properly. > They already _have_ done a cartoon version of The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, which was my daughter’s introduction to the series. To tell the truth, the upcoming movie looks enormously better thanm that very limited animation. I think Lewis would’ve approved, at least of the look. we’ll have to see what they do with the soul of the film, though. Ditto to that. If Lewis had seen the CGI, I think he would’ve reconsidered his statement. Plus, I read somewhere that the CS Lewis Estate was waiting for the exact right time to make it and decided that this was it. From what I’ve seen so far, I have complete faith in this film and I think Lewis would ultimately be proud of the outcome. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-christian-about-lewis-narnia-open-spoilers/333197/19 "2005-11-29T16:12:59Z")
I don/t think it’s so much the CG that would convince him but the fact that we’ve done some movies nowdays which weren’t ridiculous while containing ridiculous elements - like Narnia itself. Anthropomorphic mice? Talking lions? Minotaurs? But now we cn make them look serious, proud, real. And it’s not just the CG that does it; it’s the whole way of looking at the movie. Lewis was thinking about Disney flicks. While excellent and classic, they probably coldn’t pull off something like Narnia. I wonder hwo they’ll treat the symbolism in the upcoming movies? Hollywoodize-it into saccarine? Treat it like a serious subtext? Pretend it doesn’t exist? I have a hard time seeeing it go either way. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-christian-about-lewis-narnia-open-spoilers/333197/20 "2005-11-29T17:01:51Z")
_Last Battle_, IMHO, is completely unfilmable. I’m guessing they’ve played down the Christian symbolism arleady in the Narnia movie coming up, and there is absolutely _no_ way you can get around it in the last book. It just won’t work. _The Magician’s Nephew_ is a bit dicey, with the Garden of Eden allusion, but could work; _The Horse and his Boy_ is just too politically charged (Calormenes = stereotypical Arabs). I think the most filmable movies after this one are probably _Prince Caspian_ and _The Voyage of the Dawn Treader_. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-christian-about-lewis-narnia-open-spoilers/333197.md?page=2)