# Whats everyones take on this? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 31, 2003, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-everyones-take-on-this/210624 "2003-10-31T12:11:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![randy054](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/54ee81/32.png) [@randy054](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randy054)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-everyones-take-on-this/210624/1 "2003-10-31T12:11:48Z")
**Statement from the Vatican** Just a small snippet from the Vatican, the link to the full text is below. > [@](#): > > According to Islamic law, the world is divided into three parts: dar al-harb (the house of war), dar al-islam (the house of Islam), and dar al-‘ahd (the house of accord); that is, the countries with which a treaty was stipulated. […] > > As for the countries belonging to the “house of war,” Islamic canon law recognizes no relations with them other than “holy war” (jihad), which signifies an “effort” in the way of Allah and has two meanings, both of which are equally essential and must not be dissociated, as if one could exist without the other. In its primary meaning, jihad indicates the “effort” that the Muslim must undertake to be faithful to the precepts of the Koran and so improve his “submission” (islam) to Allah; in the second, it indicates the “effort” that the Muslim must undertake to “fight in the way of Allah,” which means fighting against the infidels and spreading Islam throughout the world. Jihad is a precept of the highest importance, so much so that it is sometimes counted among the fundamental precepts of Islam, as its sixth “pillar.” > > Obedience to the precept of the “holy war” explains why the history of Islam is one of unending warfare for the conquest of infidel lands. […] In particular, all of Islamic history is dominated by the idea of the conquest of the Christian lands of Western Europe and of the Eastern Roman Empire, whose capital was Constantinople. Thus, through many centuries, Islam and Christianity faced each other in terrible battles, which led on one side to the conquest of Constantinople (1453), Bulgaria, and Greece, and on the other, to the defeat of the Ottoman empire in the naval battle of Lepanto (1571). **Source : [http://213.92.16.98/ESW\_articolo/0,2393,41931,00.html](http://213.92.16.98/ESW_articolo/0,2393,41931,00.html)** Now that the pope is basically outright condemning Islam, I wonder what this holds in store for the future of the world? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-everyones-take-on-this/210624/2 "2003-10-31T12:16:17Z")
My take? 1. From the link, it is not the Pope who’s views are reputedly reflected in this, it is reputedly “a group of Jesuits in Rome, is a very special magazine. Every one of its articles is reviewed by the Vatican secretary of state before publication. So the magazine reflects his thought faithfully.” That’s a bold assumption to make. There are few editors who personally approve and believe 100% in everything they review for a publication. To me, this article represents an op-Ed piece, but then that’s my non-Vatican scholar view. 2. Wrong forum. Hey, you asked my take… ---
**Author:** ![randy054](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/54ee81/32.png) [@randy054](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randy054)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-everyones-take-on-this/210624/3 "2003-10-31T12:20:48Z")
Thanks Una, I saw this and thought it was an oped straight form the Vatican, I may have jumped the gun a bit > [@](#): > > : Through the prestigious magazine, the Vatican denounces with unusual harshness the oppression of Christians in Muslim countries. A testimony from Egypt ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-everyones-take-on-this/210624/4 "2003-10-31T14:21:06Z")
The Vatican is not “condemning Islam” (although Catholic-haters would certainly like to put that spin onto it). The Vatican is condeming religious persecution. From the same article: > [@](#): > > Furthermore, we must not underestimate grave recent actions against Christians in some Muslim-majority countries. In Algeria, the bishop of Orano, P. Claverie (1996), seven Trappist monks from Tibehirini (1999), four White Fathers (1994), and six sisters from various religious congregations have been brutally killed by Islamic fundamentalists, although the murders were condemned by numerous Muslim authorities. In Pakistan, which numbers 3,800,000 Christians among a population of 156,000,000 (96 percent Muslim), on October 28, 2001, some Muslims entered the Church of St. Dominic in Bahawalpur and gunned down 18 Christians. On May 6, 1998, Catholic bishop John Joseph killed himself for protesting against the blasphemy law, which punishes with death anyone who offends Mohammed, even only “by speaking words, or by actions and through allusions, directly or indirectly.” For example, by saying that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, one offends Mohammed, who affirmed that Jesus is not the Son of God, but his “servant.” With this kind of law, Christians are in constant danger of death. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-everyones-take-on-this/210624/5 "2003-10-31T16:12:35Z")
Also, the Vatican understands what most people do not- that a holy war doesn’t necessarily mean a war. More so than actual war, jihad refers to the war between good and evil in onesself. Followers of Mohammed should always be fighting to purify themselves of the evil within. The holy war concept is secondary; the Vatican realizes that Muslim states are not about to invade Western Europe. As far as the rest, Dogface did very nicely in summing up the actual point of the article. ---
**Author:** ![xash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c6cbf5/32.png) [@xash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xash)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2003, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-everyones-take-on-this/210624/6 "2003-11-01T20:12:10Z")
**randy054** , a few points: 1. GQ is for questions with factual answers. 2. Please use descriptive thread titles. 3. Please read forum descriptions carefully before you post your next question. 4. This is closed. - **xash** General Questions Moderator