# Whats going on here (on-line cigarette sales). **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 25, 2007, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-here-on-line-cigarette-sales/431226 "2007-12-25T20:04:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2007, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-here-on-line-cigarette-sales/431226/1 "2007-12-25T20:04:26Z")
I stumbled upon [THIS](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cigbrands.com/images/b10.jpeg&imgrefurl=http://www.cigbrands.com/index.php%3Faction%3Dview_kategory%26marka_id%3DChesterfield&h=215&w=200&sz=16&hl=en&start=42&um=1&tbnid=UIrYVd3txQaRNM:&tbnh=106&tbnw=99&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dchesterfield%2Bcigarettes%26start%3D40%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN) Site while searching for something else. Some of these are going for $8.09 a carton. I haven’t smoked cigarettes for over 15 years, but even back then I couldn’t get them for 80 cents a pack. How much is a carton of cigs nowdays? What about at the Indian reservations? These seem to cheap too be true. Or did something change the last 15 years? I know some smokers that would love to pay less than 10 bucks for a carton of smokes. ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2007, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-here-on-line-cigarette-sales/431226/2 "2007-12-25T20:16:13Z")
I’d guess they’re coming from outside the U.S. and avoiding taxes by shipping in small quantities to individuals. The recipient could be subject to taxes, plus penalties and worse if they get caught. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2007, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-here-on-line-cigarette-sales/431226/3 "2007-12-25T20:54:07Z")
[QUOTE=pkbites] I stumbled upon [THIS](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cigbrands.com/images/b10.jpeg&imgrefurl=http://www.cigbrands.com/index.php%3Faction%3Dview_kategory%26marka_id%3DChesterfield&h=215&w=200&sz=16&hl=en&start=42&um=1&tbnid=UIrYVd3txQaRNM:&tbnh=106&tbnw=99&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dchesterfield%2Bcigarettes%26start%3D40%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN) Site while searching for something else. Some of these are going for $8.09 a carton. I haven’t smoked cigarettes for over 15 years, but even back then I couldn’t get them for 80 cents a pack. How much is a carton of cigs nowdays? What about at the Indian reservations? These seem to cheap too be true. Or did something change the last 15 years? I know some smokers that would love to pay less than 10 bucks for a carton of smokes. [/QUOTE] I’m betting that these are knock offs from Asia , which would either account for the tobbacco or the packaging. Here in Ontario you can get bags of cigs which are equivalent to a carton for about 14 bucks. These come from the Indian reservations and dont have either the manufactures tax or the sin taxes added on , you just pay the GST and PST on the amount. Downside is that they (cops and probably Ontario mininstry Nazis) can confiscate your car and stuff. Edit BTW , I have no idea how much a carton of cigs sells for retail. Declan ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2007, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-here-on-line-cigarette-sales/431226/4 "2007-12-25T21:10:20Z")
[QUOTE=Declan] I’m betting that these are knock offs from Asia , which would either account for the tobbacco or the packaging. [/QUOTE] The site says: \*\* _The cigarettes offered on [www.cigbrands.com/](http://www.cigbrands.com/) are manufactured in Europe and satisfy all the European standards._ \*\* But I can’t find anything that says anything about customs and taxes. I don’t want to refer my cig smoking friends to something that will get them into trouble. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2007, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-here-on-line-cigarette-sales/431226/5 "2007-12-25T21:27:12Z")
[QUOTE=pkbites] The site says: \*\* _The cigarettes offered on [www.cigbrands.com/](http://www.cigbrands.com/) are manufactured in Europe and satisfy all the European standards._ \*\* But I can’t find anything that says anything about customs and taxes. I don’t want to refer my cig smoking friends to something that will get them into trouble. [/QUOTE] Manufactured God-knows-where and “meeting European standards” doesn’t mean diddly. If you want American cigarettes online, you’re going to pay the same price you would at a local store. If you want the $10/carton cheap foreign made crap that’ll burn your throat with the smell of dried camel dung, go for it. You are _not_ getting American made cigarettes made to American standards for $10/carton. Read all the fine print. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2007, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-here-on-line-cigarette-sales/431226/6 "2007-12-25T21:27:21Z")
Here is one possible problem: > [@](#): > > As of December 9, 2000, it is illegal to import cigarettes unless the precise warning statements are permanently imprinted both on cigarette packs and cartons. [http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/policystmt/cigarettememo.shtm](http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/policystmt/cigarettememo.shtm) And another: > [@](#): > > (a) Issuance > A person shall not engage in business as a manufacturer or importer of tobacco products or as an export warehouse proprietor without a permit to engage in such business. Such permit, conditioned upon compliance with this chapter and regulations issued thereunder, shall be issued in such form and in such manner as the Secretary shall by regulation prescribe, to every person properly qualified under sections 5711 and 5712. A new permit may be required at such other time as the Secretary shall by regulation prescribe. > **[26 U.S. Code § 5713 - Permit](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/5713)** The site doesn’t \*say \*they have a permit. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2007, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-here-on-line-cigarette-sales/431226/7 "2007-12-26T15:47:26Z")
[QUOTE=pkbites] The site says: \*\* _The cigarettes offered on [www.cigbrands.com/](http://www.cigbrands.com/) are manufactured in Europe and satisfy all the European standards._ \*\*. [/QUOTE] Part of Russia is in Europe, right? From what I understand, the cigarettes offered by various online retailers come from Russia and other former eastern bloc states. ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2007, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-here-on-line-cigarette-sales/431226/8 "2007-12-26T16:21:50Z")
The site owner: Andrey Botnari Kutuzovskii prospect 1 Moskva, 2077 Russian Federation Registered through: [GoDaddy.com](http://GoDaddy.com), Inc. ([http://www.godaddy.com](http://www.godaddy.com)) Domain Name: [CIGBRANDS.COM](http://CIGBRANDS.COM) Created on: 13-Sep-06 Expires on: 13-Sep-08 Last Updated on: 04-Sep-07 Administrative Contact: Botnari, Andrey [sales@cigbrands.com](mailto:sales@cigbrands.com) Kutuzovskii prospect 1 Moskva, 2077 Russian Federation 095111111 Technical Contact: Botnari, Andrey [sales@cigbrands.com](mailto:sales@cigbrands.com) Kutuzovskii prospect 1 Moskva, 2077 Russian Federation 095111111 ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2007, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-here-on-line-cigarette-sales/431226/9 "2007-12-26T18:25:17Z")
[QUOTE=elmwood] Part of Russia is in Europe, right? From what I understand, the cigarettes offered by various online retailers come from Russia and other former eastern bloc states. [/QUOTE] Cigs from Russia aren’t good? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![robcaro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@robcaro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robcaro)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2007, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-here-on-line-cigarette-sales/431226/10 "2007-12-26T18:33:53Z")
Shat difference does it all make. Don’t they all give some people cancer and/or emphysema. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2007, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-here-on-line-cigarette-sales/431226/11 "2007-12-26T18:52:30Z")
I bought two cartons of Marlboro’s online once. Took forever to arrive and I was surprised to see (when they did arrive) that they were Russian (nothing on the site indicated they would be shipping from Russia). I actually canceled my credit card after that although the merchant seemed to be fine and there was no funny business (I had already paid for the cigarettes). Smoke-wise they were fine…seemed just like Marlboro’s here mostly. I never went back because it was a Russian merchant and talking with some friends it sounds like I may have been breaking the law (I assumed the merchant would comply with the law such that I was in the clear but apparently not). ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2007, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-here-on-line-cigarette-sales/431226/12 "2007-12-26T18:58:06Z")
[QUOTE=robcaro] Shat difference does it all make. Don’t they all give some people cancer and/or emphysema. [/QUOTE] Yeah, really. Seems like complaining that your cancer won’t be made in the USA! Of course, there are probably other reasons to be wary, like unsafe but cheap preservatives or fertilizers or heavy metals in the soil where the tobacco is grown. Without knowing, you just don’t know, ya know? They might be perfectly fine, or they might not. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2007, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-here-on-line-cigarette-sales/431226/13 "2007-12-26T19:42:55Z")
[QUOTE=robcaro] Shat difference does it all make. Don’t they all give some people cancer and/or emphysema. [/QUOTE] Evidently you’re not a smoker. A pack of Marlboros bought in the States is vastly different from a pack of Marlboros bought in Russia. It’s like a glass of nice wine vs. a shot of moonshine mixed with koolaid, and the koolaid was probably made with toilet water. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2007, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-here-on-line-cigarette-sales/431226/14 "2007-12-26T19:48:47Z")
[QUOTE=robcaro] Don’t they all give some people cancer and/or emphysema. [/QUOTE] Maybe. But one doesn’t want his smoke to taste like shit while he’s busy killing himself slowly.😛 I haven’t smoked cigarettes for 15+ years, but I do enjoy an occassional cigar, which is what I was looking for when I came upon that site. I have only a couple cigars a year, at the very most. Nothing in extreme moderation will kill you. And nobody gets out of here alive anyway. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2007, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-here-on-line-cigarette-sales/431226/15 "2007-12-26T20:32:26Z")
[QUOTE=racer72] Technical Contact: Botnari, Andrey [sales@cigbrands.com](mailto:sales@cigbrands.com) Kutuzovskii prospect 1 Moskva, 2077 Russian Federation 095111111 [/QUOTE] Huh. I bet those aren’t even real phone numbers or postal codes. 095 is a real Moscow area code, but 111111 seems suspicious as a number. And aren’t Russian postal codes six digits? ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2007, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-here-on-line-cigarette-sales/431226/16 "2007-12-26T20:42:40Z")
Back when I was a smoker (can I say “back when” if it’s only been seven months?) I’d occasionally get them from an online seller. Almost always a European imprint (for some reason I remember Sweden a lot), and while I can’t say what “standards” are different, or why—given the tobacco lobby’s power—American standards for _cigarettes_ would be any better, there was a definitely noticeable harshness to the non-US brand. Not terrible, but not quite innocuous. Not quite Marlboro Ultra-lites to unfiltered Lucky Strikes, more like Marlboro lites to regular Camel filtered. It was also similar to being stuck for a few days without your regular brand. I chalked it up to varying cultural tastes – like stronger/more bitter coffee being preferred, but had enough of the willies not to buy on line all that often. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2007, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-here-on-line-cigarette-sales/431226/17 "2007-12-26T21:06:27Z")
Sweden or Switzerland? There was a Swiss operation called Yessmoke. The reason they could operate outside EU taxation laws was that they were outside the EU. I got a few orders of twin packs through, then another friend tried it and got a note from customs saying “pay us €60 and these cigarettes can be yours”. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2007, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-here-on-line-cigarette-sales/431226/18 "2007-12-26T21:40:42Z")
wow… I tried remembering the name to put in the post, but couldn’t draw it up from the murky depths–but yessmoke.ch was it! Damn, I had a College friend from Malmö who had a things about being confused with the Swiss. Damn if I don’t owe him an apology. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2007, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-here-on-line-cigarette-sales/431226/19 "2007-12-26T21:51:42Z")
[QUOTE=Rhythmdvl] Damn, I had a College friend from Malmö who had a things about being confused with the Swiss. Damn if I don’t owe him an apology. [/QUOTE] Don’t worry - I have a friend from Austria who has on many occasions while travelling had to explain that no, they don’t have kangaroos in the Tyrol.