# What's going on with the switch to electric everything? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 13, 2023, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-with-the-switch-to-electric-everything/978168 "2023-01-13T14:25:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-with-the-switch-to-electric-everything/978168/21 "2023-01-13T16:17:06Z")
Our problem was that we were completely happy to just light the stove with a grill lighter, but no gas came out until the stove was powered up. There was some sort of dead-man check valve that stayed open as long as electricity was present, but when the power was out, so was the gas. As far as induction goes, you have to have either cast iron or magnetic stainless steel for it to work. As I understand most clad cookware use that, but I’m not sure how well it works versus using gas, since the stainless layers are usually _very_ thin. Obviously a cast iron or carbon steel pan would work best. Stuff like old-school anodized Calphalon cookware would be useless, and so would very high-end copper cookware. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-with-the-switch-to-electric-everything/978168/22 "2023-01-13T16:19:28Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > And if you are heating your kitchen with your gas burner, i suspect you are turning the burner up too high. I get very little heat leakage, and most of that radiates off the hot pot and hot food. Not for nothing but for backpacking gas stoves it is typically for a stove to boil 8 oz\* water in about 5 minutes with a normal pot and 2 minutes with a high efficiency pot that has a heat exchanger on the bottom using the same stove and heat setting. Now lowering the heat is known to save fuel for the same boil to a point (especially at the beginning cold water time), but that’s a big gap to make up. - I think the quantity of water is 8 oz but if it’s something else it’s the same amount for both setups’s > [@](#): > > My newish (maybe 20 years old, now) oven is enormously better insulated than any oven I’ve previously owned, including the electric oven i grew up with I was simply amazed at the amount of insulation of my electric oven, the kitchen didn’t get hot to any noticeable degree. Gas OTOH needs airflow for combustion and unless your gas oven vents to outside or it was made by magical unicorn fairies I can’t see how that would be possible. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-with-the-switch-to-electric-everything/978168/23 "2023-01-13T16:27:41Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > Conspiracy people say as soon as they go all electric, the plan is for power outages and mass chaos. They don’t have to change anything to do that. My furnace requires electricity, even though it’s an oil system. Everything else in my house requires electricity. Besides, usually when there’s a crisis like this people work together. We’ve lost power for several days at times and managed to go about our daily lives. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-with-the-switch-to-electric-everything/978168/24 "2023-01-13T16:43:51Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Besides, usually when there’s a crisis like this people work together. We’ve lost power for several days at times and managed to go about our daily lives. As I pointed out above, this happens when people lose power, however some people tend to go batshit crazy when gasoline is disrupted. I’m not sure if it’s more vehicle based or because in a power outage there is not overall much one can do to restore it, though with gas one can fight to get some to use. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-with-the-switch-to-electric-everything/978168/25 "2023-01-13T17:12:25Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > Conspiracy people say as soon as they go all electric, the plan is for power outages and mass chaos. If They want to cause mass chaos, couldn’t They just _shut the gas off_? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-with-the-switch-to-electric-everything/978168/26 "2023-01-13T17:44:42Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The alternative is resistance electric which currently is powered by a grid that is 20% coal, 40% natural gas, 20% renewable, 20% nuke (using national numbers). This means that due to thermodynamic efficiencies of fossil fuels that we will be burning more and emitting more than if we just use the gas dryer, as well as using renewable capacity and creating nuke waste. Also increasing the load on our grid which we will need for thing like EV’s and the above mentioned electric stoves. Unless we are expecting a big breakthrough or perhaps building lots of nuke plants … Obviously different regions’ grids have different mixes, with some currently more more carbon intensive and some less. Commonalities though? Over the next decades they will all be moving to less emissions, and improving transmission capacity. That’s not some big breakthrough that will surprise us; it is just an ongoing march of movement in progress. But that will take decades! And guess what? If there was today a national ban on the sale of all new gas appliances in both new and existing buildings, the change from the current stock to becoming electric would take … decades. Your current gas stove is not going to be confiscated and have to be replaced. In ten to fifteen years, when you decide to do a new kitchen, you will need to go with an electric option, and the induction ones really are, not only much much more efficient but better and safer. Even if you have to replace a few pots and pans as part of the redo. (Electric dryers do have farther to go.) Plus induction cooktops, admittedly a premium product now, will come down in price with volume sold, and aiming for different market segments. It really is like with electric cars - even if all new cars were electric there will be many more ICE vehicles on the road for quite a while. We are not 5 year olds playing soccer chasing where the ball is; we know enough to start to move to where the ball is going to be. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-with-the-switch-to-electric-everything/978168/27 "2023-01-13T18:28:18Z")
Most “tri-clad” pans should be fine with induction. It’s the anodized aluminum and copper that just won’t work. Most stainless works fine, but some buzzes. You barely have time to get your cup and unwrap a tea bag before the water boils! ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-with-the-switch-to-electric-everything/978168/28 "2023-01-13T18:34:13Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > claiming everybody growing up with gas ended up ill doesn’t cut it when someone with no exposure ended up with the same thing … I’m not aware of anyone having made the claim that “everybody growing up with gas ended up ill”. And someone with no exposure to natural gas exhaust nonetheless ending up sick does not by itself negate the claim that natural gas exhaust is hazardous. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-with-the-switch-to-electric-everything/978168/29 "2023-01-13T19:27:44Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I have a question, do you know how well induction plays with try-clad pots (basically a pot made of stainless steel/ aluminum/ stainless steel ‘sandwich’)? It didn’t work at all for mine. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-with-the-switch-to-electric-everything/978168/30 "2023-01-13T19:29:36Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I was simply amazed at the amount of insulation of my electric oven, the kitchen didn’t get hot to any noticeable degree. Gas OTOH needs airflow for combustion and unless your gas oven vents to outside or it was made by magical unicorn fairies I can’t see how that would be possible. We have an exhaust fan (to outside) above the vents, and use it routinely in the summer. But we had the same exhaust fan with the prior oven, and the change when we got the new oven was really dramatic. The new oven also comes up to temperature much faster, which i assumed is related. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-with-the-switch-to-electric-everything/978168/31 "2023-01-13T19:31:40Z")
> [@bump](#): > > As far as induction goes, you have to have either cast iron or magnetic stainless steel for it to work. I had a gas cooktop in the US, before moving to Europe several years ago. There is no gas anything in homes where I live. I have an induction cooktop. Finding induction-compatible cookware is a non issue. It’s readily available at no additional cost. And best of all, it works a charm. It’s not the same as gas, all heating options have their own quirks, but it’s fast and very efficient. I don’t miss my gas cooktop. Objecting to induction because somehow it doesn’t work as well, for some nebulous reason, is nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-with-the-switch-to-electric-everything/978168/32 "2023-01-13T20:31:34Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Many people with gas have found ways to keep the place warm during power failures. Such as plugging their furnace into an inverter and running it off a car battery, or use a generator which can easily power a gas appliance I connected the gas furnace, the well pump, the satellite receiver and some lights to my gas generator when I was without power for a week during an ice storm in rural Arkansas. However, the telling point is that I cannot make Hollandaise on an electric burner. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-with-the-switch-to-electric-everything/978168/33 "2023-01-13T21:02:33Z")
Not if you have a local tank, like propane. The best scenario for protection against power supply issues is to have propane and a Stand Alone Generator. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-with-the-switch-to-electric-everything/978168/34 "2023-01-13T21:04:54Z")
People that have done the math say that the current electrical grids can’t support the future anticipated loads of all the mandated future EVs, not to mention converting to electic appliances across the board. That would spell disaster. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-with-the-switch-to-electric-everything/978168/35 "2023-01-13T21:10:06Z")
> [@Uncommon\_Sense](#): > > the current electrical grids can’t support the future anticipated … Fortunate then that the future will have the future electrical grids to support it. And both will take time until they are the present. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-with-the-switch-to-electric-everything/978168/36 "2023-01-13T21:36:27Z")
One of the biggest mistakes we are making in the attempt to slow climate change is in the rejection of natural gas production. This anti-everything-fossil is a big problem, because it will spike electricity prices and impede the adoption of electric cars and risk a blowback against other climate programs. It will also impoverish people and cripple the consumer economy if it gets bad enough. We need natural gas. We need a lot of it. We will continue to need a lot of it for many decades. In fact, we will need more of it in the future as we replace baseload coal and nuclear with intermittent solar and wind. Natural gas has to make up the gaps. And as fossil fuels go, it has the lowest carbon emissions. New York just shut down its Indian Point power station, which provided 9% of the state’s electricity. They replaced it with… nothing. And now they want to push more people into consuming lots more electricity. Madness. I was looking to replace my water heater with a boiler system, as the government has a rebate for energy efficiency upgrades. So I talked to our heating guys, and they informed me that the only systems that qualify for the rebate are electric, and electric systems simply don’t work well in a cold place like Alberta. I would also have had to upgrade our electrical service at a minimum cost of $16,000, according to the city. So they refused to quote one. Also, NY had better be ready to upgrade the wiring of entire neighborhoods, because stoves and dryers and electric heaters use huge amounts of electricity and electrical services put in under the assumption of gas heat, cooking and drying will not be able to handle the load. It is NOT cheap to upgrade the services of thousands of homes, plus distribution transformers, wiring, etc. And we have a copper shortage, so this will help make everything else that works with electricity (EV cars, windmills, etc) more expensive or impossible to get in a timely manner. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-with-the-switch-to-electric-everything/978168/37 "2023-01-13T21:50:57Z")
How do ground-source heat pumps not work in AB? 8-10’ down or in a well there’s plenty of heat to be had. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-with-the-switch-to-electric-everything/978168/38 "2023-01-13T22:00:32Z")
I wasn’t objecting, just pointing out that you have to have specific cookware. And if you don’t already have it, that’s a non-trivial cost as well as the cost of the appliances and the cost of potentially having to wire your kitchen for 220v. It’s not like you can just get rid of gas stoves without impact. And at any rate, only 15% of natural gas use is residential; 70% is industrial and power generation. Is the assumption that removing 1% of residential use will add less than 1% to the power generation percentage? I’m curious how burning natural gas for electricity, transmitting it through a network of lines and transformers, and then running it through a heating element actually saves gas vs. heating the pan directly. Maybe that’s so, but it doesn’t seem intuitive to me. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-with-the-switch-to-electric-everything/978168/39 "2023-01-13T22:21:01Z")
> [@Tride](#): > > How do ground-source heat pumps not work in AB? 8-10’ down or in a well there’s plenty of heat to be had. This wasn’t a heat pump, but a water boiler to replace a hot water tank. Apparently our groundwater is very cold here, and the electric units cannot bring the termperature up high enough. That’s what I was told, anyway. However, heat punps have the same issue: > **[Heat pumps in Alberta may be greener, but is the weather too cold for them? |...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-too-cold-for-heat-pumps-1.6560215)** > > Heat pump technology is starting to gain momentum in Canada, but Alberta’s cold winters and prohibitive costs may be a roadblock to its popularity in this province.  According to the article, typical residential heat pumps cannot heat an Alberta home effectively at a temperature below 0C. So you have to maintain a furnace and use them as a supplemental, with much less in energy savings. They still cost between $6,000 and $8,000. Units are available that can do the job, but they are as much as five times as expensive. BC is awesome for heat pumps, as it doesn’t get as cold in the winter and the interior of BC hotter in summer. If I lived there, I’d have a heat pump instead of AC/Furnace. But in Alberta it doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-with-the-switch-to-electric-everything/978168/40 "2023-01-13T22:25:58Z")
> [@bump](#): > > and the cost of potentially having to wire your kitchen for 220v. It’s not like you can just get rid of gas stoves without impact. There are companies working on battery powered stoves now. The idea is to average out the power usage over the day, so that they can support high heating rates while keeping peak electrical loads low. They can charge continuously from a standard 120v/15A outlet, but still put out tens of kilowatts when needed. They should be able to heat faster than even a 240v stove (say, boiling a pot of water). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-with-the-switch-to-electric-everything/978168.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-going-on-with-the-switch-to-electric-everything/978168.md?page=3)