# What's greener: lining a pan with aluminum foil or not? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 16, 2018, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-greener-lining-a-pan-with-aluminum-foil-or-not/814316 "2018-05-16T23:46:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2018, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-greener-lining-a-pan-with-aluminum-foil-or-not/814316/21 "2018-05-17T03:49:10Z")
How much energy goes into heating the water to scrub it with, though? The OP’s question is, after all, which is more environmentally friendly, using recycled aluminum (which he will now recycle again), or scrubbing the pan with hot water? I’d assume it would depend on certain factors, such as: This is from a UK[site](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-living-blog/2010/aug/19/carbon-footprints-dishwasher-washing-up), and it assumes hot water is heated by a gas boiler, which may not be the case in your home: > [@](#): > > Almost zero CO2e: by hand in cold water (but the plates aren’t clean) > 540g CO2e: by hand, using water sparingly and not too hot > 770g CO2e: in a dishwasher at 55°C > 990g CO2e: in a dishwasher at 65°C > 8000g CO2e: by hand, with extravagant use of water I don’t know what constitutes “extravagant,” but I’d guess it means running hot water onto the pan while scrubbing it. I also don’t know what the CO2e of recycling aluminum is. If someone can provide that, it should be easy to resolve your argument. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2018, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-greener-lining-a-pan-with-aluminum-foil-or-not/814316/22 "2018-05-17T04:00:54Z")
Time is also a valuable resource, and if lining a pan with foil saves a few minutes that you’d rather not spend scrubbing a pan, go for it. ---
**Author:** ![PoppaSan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/poppasan/32/189_2.png) [@PoppaSan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoppaSan)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2018, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-greener-lining-a-pan-with-aluminum-foil-or-not/814316/23 "2018-05-17T09:47:55Z")
Is the pan the only thing you run the water for? Do like my brothers did back in the day and throw the pan in a cold oven for a few days until you have enough for a sinkful. Drove my parents nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2018, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-greener-lining-a-pan-with-aluminum-foil-or-not/814316/24 "2018-05-17T10:11:22Z")
+1 for lining with baking paper, rather than foil. Does the same job and is much less energy intensive to manufacture. ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2018, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-greener-lining-a-pan-with-aluminum-foil-or-not/814316/25 "2018-05-17T12:48:34Z")
CO2 footprint for new aluminum = 20 kg of CO2 per kg of aluminum (cite : [http://www.world-aluminium.org/media/filer\_public/2013/01/15/fl0000169.pdf](http://www.world-aluminium.org/media/filer_public/2013/01/15/fl0000169.pdf)) Recycled Aluminum needs about 8% of the energy. (Cite : [Sustainability and Efficiency - Aluminum Transportation Group](http://www.drivealuminum.org/aluminum-advantages/sustainability/)) Add to it another 10% for transportation / sorting/ manufacturing . So roughly recycled Aluminum has 20% of the carbon footprint of new aluminum. So about 4 kg of CO2 per kg of Aluminum. Let’s say you use 2 sq ft of Aluminum foil. So the weight of 2 sq ft will be about 8 g. (Cite : [https://www.google.com/amp/amp.slate.com/articles/health\_and\_science/the\_green\_lantern/2010/04/wrap\_session.html](https://www.google.com/amp/amp.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/the_green_lantern/2010/04/wrap_session.html)). So the total footprint of the foil is 32 g. For water, the carbon footprint varies due to heating/ waste water processing / pumping etc. for the UK, the published value is about 0.8 g CO2 /l of tap water ( Cite : [http://oco-carbon.com/metrics/the-carbon-footprint-of-tap-water/](http://oco-carbon.com/metrics/the-carbon-footprint-of-tap-water/)). So let’s say you use a gallon (about 4 l of water to clean the pan). Then the CO2 footprint is about 3.2 g. To summarize : \*\* A. carbon footprint using foil : 32 g B. Washing the pan, carbon footprint : 3.2 g\*\* Your wife is right ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2018, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-greener-lining-a-pan-with-aluminum-foil-or-not/814316/26 "2018-05-17T13:29:24Z")
> [@am77494](#): > > CO2 footprint for new aluminum = 20 kg of CO2 per kg of aluminum (cite : [http://www.world-aluminium.org/media/filer\_public/2013/01/15/fl0000169.pdf](http://www.world-aluminium.org/media/filer_public/2013/01/15/fl0000169.pdf)) > > Recycled Aluminum needs about 8% of the energy. (Cite : [Sustainability and Efficiency - Aluminum Transportation Group- ATG](http://www.drivealuminum.org/aluminum-advantages/sustainability/)) Add to it another 10% for transportation / sorting/ manufacturing . So roughly recycled Aluminum has 20% of the carbon footprint of new aluminum. So about 4 kg of CO2 per kg of Aluminum. > > Let’s say you use 2 sq ft of Aluminum foil. So the weight of 2 sq ft will be about 8 g. (Cite : [https://www.google.com/amp/amp.slate.com/articles/health\_and\_science/the\_green\_lantern/2010/04/wrap\_session.html](https://www.google.com/amp/amp.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/the_green_lantern/2010/04/wrap_session.html)). So the total footprint of the foil is 32 g. > > For water, the carbon footprint varies due to heating/ waste water processing / pumping etc. for the UK, the published value is about 0.8 g CO2 /l of tap water ( Cite : [http://oco-carbon.com/metrics/the-carbon-footprint-of-tap-water/](http://oco-carbon.com/metrics/the-carbon-footprint-of-tap-water/)). So let’s say you use a gallon (about 4 l of water to clean the pan). Then the CO2 footprint is about 3.2 g. > > To summarize : > > \*\* A. carbon footprint using foil : 32 g > B. Washing the pan, carbon footprint : 3.2 g\*\* > > Your wife is right Now this is what I’m talking about! I’m going to dig into these cites… I suspect we use more than a gallon of hot water for the typical sticky pan, but even so not 10x as much. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2018, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-greener-lining-a-pan-with-aluminum-foil-or-not/814316/27 "2018-05-17T13:40:37Z")
“The wife is right”, has always been more environmentally friendly in my book. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2018, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-greener-lining-a-pan-with-aluminum-foil-or-not/814316/28 "2018-05-17T13:44:52Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > “The wife is right”, has always been more environmentally friendly in my book. [insert joke about “hot water” here] 😃 ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2018, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-greener-lining-a-pan-with-aluminum-foil-or-not/814316/29 "2018-05-17T14:13:51Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Now this is what I’m talking about! I’m going to dig into these cites… > > I suspect we use more than a gallon of hot water for the typical sticky pan, but even so not 10x as much. You must be newly married since you believe logical scientific calculations will help you resolve a dispute. Good luck Here are some numbers to give you some perspective: A. CO2 footprint of the foil = 32 g B. Same CO2 is released by burning 1/16 th of a typical 8 oz candle C. Same CO2 is released by driving about 400 ft or 0.08 miles in a tupical American car ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2018, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-greener-lining-a-pan-with-aluminum-foil-or-not/814316/30 "2018-05-17T14:31:42Z")
> [@am77494](#): > > If someone doesn’t do the calcs for you, I’ll do it later for the greener part. > > But right off the bat, lining pots and pans may not be a good idea for health reasons: > > Cite : [Is Aluminum Foil Dangerous for Cooking? - Nutritious Life: Healthy Tips, Healthy Recipes, Exercise](https://nutritiouslife.com/live-consciously/aluminum-foil-dangerous-cooking/) > > The other reason is safety : Sometimes those pans lined with foil can catch fire when heated directly on the stove. [From the actual CDC](https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/phs/phs.asp?id=1076&tid=34#bookmark04): > [@](#): > > Exposure to the levels of aluminum that are naturally present in food and water and the forms of aluminum that are present in dirt and aluminum pots and pans are not considered to be harmful. > > Eating large amounts of processed food containing aluminum additives or frequently cooking acidic foods in aluminum pots may expose a person to higher levels of aluminum than a person who generally consumes unprocessed foods and uses pots made of other materials (e.g., stainless steel or glass). **However, aluminum levels found in processed foods and foods cooked in aluminum pots are generally considered to be safe**. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2018, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-greener-lining-a-pan-with-aluminum-foil-or-not/814316/31 "2018-05-17T14:41:10Z")
After reading all of this input, I’ve decided that the aluminum foil is an unnecessary “middle man” in the cooking process. A fine coating of olive oil for lubrication on a non stick baking sheet is just fine. That is, in fact, what I do. The washing of the pan takes only seconds and is, to me, a non-factor. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2018, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-greener-lining-a-pan-with-aluminum-foil-or-not/814316/32 "2018-05-17T16:34:17Z")
I think if you never use foil you are inevitably shortening the lifespan of the baking sheet so I think that should be part of an environmental calculation. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-greener-lining-a-pan-with-aluminum-foil-or-not/814316/33 "2018-05-17T18:32:32Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > It’s a stretch, I know, but not completely false, right? It’s pretty close to completely false. Aluminum production is so energy intensive that the market already supports recyclers buying used aluminum from individuals for reuse. If I didn’t put it in the bin I could save my aluminum and sell it to an industrial metal recycler about 5 miles away. Dropping it in the bin is more a subsidy for the recycling of other materials that require a subsidy for the market to work. Unlike a lot of recycled products, recycled aluminum doesn’t suffer from being inadequate for the same uses as virgin material. “[Facts About Recycling Aluminum](http://www.marck.net/facts-about-recycling-aluminum/)” > [@](#): > > ``` > Aluminum cans are 100% recyclable, meaning every ounce you put in the recycle bin gets recycled and ends up back on a store shelf in just 60 days. > There is literally no limit to how many times an aluminum can can be reclaimed. Aluminum is considered a sustainable metal, meaning it can be recycled again and again with no loss in material or quality. > Nearly 75% of all aluminum produced in the U.S. is still in use today. > Recycling an aluminum can takes just 5% of the energy it takes to make an new one. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-greener-lining-a-pan-with-aluminum-foil-or-not/814316/34 "2018-05-17T18:34:40Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I think if you never use foil you are inevitably shortening the lifespan of the baking sheet so I think that should be part of an environmental calculation. Made of metal, the baking sheet can be recycled. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-greener-lining-a-pan-with-aluminum-foil-or-not/814316/35 "2018-05-19T06:13:22Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Yep, we do soak pans when we don’t use aluminum foil, so I am well aware of this option. But the wife doesn’t like letting dishes sit in the sink, so it’s also not her preferred option and is getting us away from the “which option is more environmentally friendly” question into a third option. I hope this doesn’t sound snarky, because I don’t intend it to be, but I’m not really looking for pan-washing advice here, I’m looking for facts 🙂 > > And I’m happy to have learned that I can recycle my used foil, so that’s already a win for me. I did address the two options: Use a liner or wash the pan. I said wash it. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-greener-lining-a-pan-with-aluminum-foil-or-not/814316/36 "2018-05-19T20:09:16Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > And by buying recycled aluminum, I am in my tiny way encouraging the recycling of aluminum (this sounds bogus even to me, but I’m trying to win an argument here). It is indeed bogus, and you’re wasting your money if the 100% recycled foil costs more. 1. You don’t have to “encourage” aluminum recycling. Market forces do that just fine, as noted above. 2. Due to said market forces, regular foil will have a very high percentage of recycled aluminum anyway. > [@Grrr](#): > > “The wife is right”, has always been more environmentally friendly in my book. I’d appreciate it if you and others would refrain from making random sexist comments. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-greener-lining-a-pan-with-aluminum-foil-or-not/814316/37 "2018-05-19T22:33:52Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > “The wife is right”, has always been more environmentally friendly in my book. > [@Green\_Bean](#): > > I’d appreciate it if you and others would refrain from making random sexist comments. Thank you. My wife thought his comment was clever and quite amusing, actually. But you can call her sexist, too, if you want. Anyway, back to aluminum foil… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-greener-lining-a-pan-with-aluminum-foil-or-not/814316/38 "2018-05-19T22:51:47Z")
Think of it this way: Suppose that, instead of washing the pan in hot, soapy water, you instead cleaned it by melting it down and pouring it into a pan-shaped mold to resolidify. Does that sound like it’d be an environmentally-friendly option? Does it seem any more appealing if you do that before you use the pan each time, instead of after? What if someone else melts the pan down for you? Because that’s what the foil actually is. Someone melted down a bunch of aluminum and shaped it into clean foil for you, and then after all that work, you’re only using it once. OK, it’s not as much weight as the whole pan, but I doubt you’d consider melting off just a foil-thin layer of your pan surface, either. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-greener-lining-a-pan-with-aluminum-foil-or-not/814316/39 "2018-05-19T23:09:03Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > I’d appreciate it if you and others would refrain from making random sexist comments. Thank you. Why would anyone possibly care what you would appreciate??? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-greener-lining-a-pan-with-aluminum-foil-or-not/814316/40 "2018-05-19T23:09:46Z")
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