# Whats it called when someone kills themselves accidentally? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 27, 2010, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-it-called-when-someone-kills-themselves-accidentally/565503 "2010-12-27T07:36:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![automagic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a698b9/32.png) [@automagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/automagic)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-it-called-when-someone-kills-themselves-accidentally/565503/1 "2010-12-27T07:36:46Z")
I know a suicide is when someone intends to kill themselves and succeeds, but what if there was no intention. For example if a stunt motorcyclists decides to jump 15 flaming cars but does not succeed and ends in his demise what is that death classified as? What would you call something less extreme, such as some dying by cleaning their gun and having the gun go off? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-it-called-when-someone-kills-themselves-accidentally/565503/2 "2010-12-27T07:42:28Z")
Either “accidental” or “death by misadventure.” ---
**Author:** ![bahimes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@bahimes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bahimes)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-it-called-when-someone-kills-themselves-accidentally/565503/3 "2010-12-27T08:51:32Z")
Darwin Award. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-it-called-when-someone-kills-themselves-accidentally/565503/4 "2010-12-27T13:44:03Z")
When someone dies while “cleaning their gun”, it is [almost always a suicide](http://www.aaimedicine.org/journal-of-insurance-medicine/jim/2000/032-04-0266.pdf) that the victim is attempting to disguise as an accident. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-it-called-when-someone-kills-themselves-accidentally/565503/5 "2010-12-27T13:55:49Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > When someone dies while “cleaning their gun”, it is [almost always a suicide](http://www.aaimedicine.org/journal-of-insurance-medicine/jim/2000/032-04-0266.pdf) that the victim is attempting to disguise as an accident. That doesn’t surprise me. I also wonder about that in the case of single-vehicle accidents, especially those “at night/high speed/no seat belt” ones we see every so often. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-it-called-when-someone-kills-themselves-accidentally/565503/6 "2010-12-27T14:50:37Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > When someone dies while “cleaning their gun”, it is [almost always a suicide](http://www.aaimedicine.org/journal-of-insurance-medicine/jim/2000/032-04-0266.pdf) that the victim is attempting to disguise as an accident. Attempted suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-it-called-when-someone-kills-themselves-accidentally/565503/7 "2010-12-27T15:09:27Z")
This happened to a college friend of mine (autoerotic asphyxia gone wrong). I didn’t find out that it was accidental until his girlfriend let slip that the coroner’s report had said it was accidental suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-it-called-when-someone-kills-themselves-accidentally/565503/8 "2010-12-27T16:13:22Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > That doesn’t surprise me. I also wonder about that in the case of single-vehicle accidents, especially those “at night/high speed/no seat belt” ones we see every so often. According to ER friends, many one vehicle “accidents” as you describe are successful suicides. Bridge abutments are the common stopping mechanism. A dead-on travel path into an abutment (pun intended), coupled with no seat belts and no signs of brakes being used (no skid marks) are pretty good indicators. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-it-called-when-someone-kills-themselves-accidentally/565503/9 "2010-12-27T16:16:12Z")
How about “death by misadventure”? ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-it-called-when-someone-kills-themselves-accidentally/565503/10 "2010-12-27T16:27:20Z")
> [@Wile\_E](#): > > How about “death by misadventure”? That’s good enough for the #2 spot in this thread! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-it-called-when-someone-kills-themselves-accidentally/565503/11 "2010-12-27T16:32:20Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > When someone dies while “cleaning their gun”, it is [almost always a suicide](http://www.aaimedicine.org/journal-of-insurance-medicine/jim/2000/032-04-0266.pdf) that the victim is attempting to disguise as an accident. How does a dead person claim to be “cleaning their gun”? ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-it-called-when-someone-kills-themselves-accidentally/565503/12 "2010-12-27T16:33:45Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > That’s good enough for the #2 spot in this thread! 😉 I wouldn’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-it-called-when-someone-kills-themselves-accidentally/565503/13 "2010-12-27T16:37:13Z")
I would say “accidental suicide” or “unintentional suicide” or a death by a really, really, REALLY clever murderer 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-it-called-when-someone-kills-themselves-accidentally/565503/14 "2010-12-27T16:40:17Z")
I believe that English law used to distinguish between suicide (when someone killed himself or herself) and [felo-de-se](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felo_de_se), when someone killed himself or herself _intentionally_. But I don’t know if there was a specific word for unintentional suicides under this system. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-it-called-when-someone-kills-themselves-accidentally/565503/15 "2010-12-27T16:49:33Z")
\*\*Whats it called when someone kills themselves accidentally? \*\*FAIL. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-it-called-when-someone-kills-themselves-accidentally/565503/16 "2010-12-27T17:42:33Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > How does a dead person claim to be “cleaning their gun”? By staging the scene beforehand. Either that, or the victim’s family/friends found the body and attempted to make it look like not a suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-it-called-when-someone-kills-themselves-accidentally/565503/17 "2010-12-27T17:44:20Z")
It doesn’t surprise me in the slightest that the claim that deaths by gun cleaning accidents are “almost always a suicide” was made by insurance company lawyers. It also wouldn’t surprise me if I found out that the ones which the insurance company lawyers don’t suspect to be suicides are those where the dead guys policy does not have a suicide exclusion clause. ---
**Author:** ![Gymnopithys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-it-called-when-someone-kills-themselves-accidentally/565503/18 "2010-12-27T17:54:51Z")
An auto accident 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-it-called-when-someone-kills-themselves-accidentally/565503/19 "2010-12-27T18:00:26Z")
Fatal accident. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-it-called-when-someone-kills-themselves-accidentally/565503/20 "2010-12-27T18:42:12Z")
> [@Turble](#): > > It doesn’t surprise me in the slightest that the claim that deaths by gun cleaning accidents are “almost always a suicide” was made by insurance company lawyers. Actually, profound skepticism about “gun cleaning accidents” is a staple among forensic pathologists who are familiar with such deaths and have no connection to insurance companies. This is because they’ve investigated numerous cases and found indications of staging (see second link below for an example of how one may conclude staging occurred) and victim backgrounds that strongly suggest the likelihood of suicide. [This link](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1646955/pdf/amjph00255-0111a.pdf) from the American Journal of Public Health references a paper published in a forensic journal by a distinguished forensic pathologist (Vincent DiMaio) who is quoted as saying that all of the cases he looked into were eventually concluded to represent suicides. In cases like these, there is often considerable pressure on the medical examiner to rule the case a suicide, both to protect the “good name” of the deceased and for insurance settlement reasons. A couple of other factors to consider in “gun cleaning” deaths: anti-gun groups have cited such cases as allegedly showing the dangers of gun ownership, and staged gun cleaning shooting incidents don’t just include suicides (here’s an example of one thought to be [a disguised homicide](http://www.evidencemagazine.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=365)). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-it-called-when-someone-kills-themselves-accidentally/565503.md?page=2)