# Whats makes people think that the Bible is more than a really long fictional story? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 12, 2002, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-makes-people-think-that-the-bible-is-more-than-a-really-long-fictional-story/113627 "2002-06-12T12:02:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TheeGrumpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@TheeGrumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheeGrumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-makes-people-think-that-the-bible-is-more-than-a-really-long-fictional-story/113627/21 "2002-06-12T22:34:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MEBuckner \* > Well, there’s another Richard Daley who is currently mayor… Although being dead has traditionally not been an absolute bar to involvement in Chicago politics. It’s the second coming! Praise Daley! ---
**Author:** ![il\_Topo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/eb9ed0/32.png) [@il\_Topo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/il_Topo)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-makes-people-think-that-the-bible-is-more-than-a-really-long-fictional-story/113627/22 "2002-06-12T22:40:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Topo > > There is nothing more excellent to seek. God go with you on your journey to find truth. > > That the Bible is true, no, but that Jesus is Truth, yes. Many. Daily. \*\* Wow. That’s actually pretty depressing for me. I mean, I appreciate the sentiment you offer, and I thank you for it. But regarding your last statement, all I can say is ouch! Not from anything you have done. It’s just that I never have those revelations, and in a weak moment, I might think that it hurts to know that others have been chosen for the comfort of them and I have not. If existent, God has apparently chosen me, for reasons that I cannot comprehend, to bear some sort of tortured, philosophical cross. And, you know what? That sucks. If he does not exist, I’m torturing myself for no reason at all. That sucks too. When can I get off this philosphical treadmill? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-makes-people-think-that-the-bible-is-more-than-a-really-long-fictional-story/113627/23 "2002-06-12T23:13:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MEBuckner \* > \*\* > Well, there’s another Richard Daley who is currently mayor–quite like the current situation with the Presidency of the United States, in fact. (And just the sort of thing to potentially confuse future chroniclers.) > > Although being dead has traditionally not been an absolute bar to involvement in Chicago politics. \*\* Do’h! Shoulda checked that. ---
**Author:** ![Phlip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Phlip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlip)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-makes-people-think-that-the-bible-is-more-than-a-really-long-fictional-story/113627/24 "2002-06-12T23:27:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by photopat \* > \*\*Faith is all well and good, but the proof problem comes down to “the bible says it’s the word of God and God wouldn’t lie, so it must be true,” which of course begs the question, how do we know it’s really the word of God, and the response becomes, “because it’s the bible.” > > At that point I just walk away. \*\* This is what is frustrating to me. I have had the same short discussion with many people over the course of my life. The thing is that I do not ding people for believing the Bible and believing in Jesus. In fact, I truly wish that I could believe in something so strongly that it makes me feel great everyday and feel like someone was watching out for me even if I cant see Him. My friends seem to get great comfort and relief out of thier faith. I WANT the same thing as well. Who wouldnt? But I just cant wake up one day and say " Hey, I am going to start being Christian, or Catholic, or a Moonie" or whatever because I dont actually BELIEVE the messages. Its not a choice really. I doubt any one CHOOSES to believe in JC. You either do, or you dont. It reminds me of a night with a friend of mine back in high school. Great kid, but he was a big time holy roller. Well we got into this discussion about “How do you REALLY know whats real” and he told me he had hard, physical proof that God IS real. Undeniable proof. He had pictures… I was very skeptical to say the least, but I was definetly curious to see these pictures and who knows, maybe they are what I needed to “turn me” to the God side. So he takes me to his house and on the way he describes the picutres to me. He says that his family went to New Mexico or something a few years back to go to some graveyard where, apparently, people had been seeing the virgin mary in the sky above a certain grave. The thing was that he said he had pictures, proof that she was really there. I was very excited at this point because maybe, just maybe there would be something here to see. So he goes into his house and gets the pictures and I will admit that I was a little scared. What if I saw VM in these picutres? Would that shake me down and change me for life? So I get the pictures , about 20 of them or so. I was very disappointed to say the least, and not very surprised to see that it was a bunch of pictures of sunspots and clouds. There was no proof in these pictures. He was pointing out her face and her cowl and hands and what not in all the pictures, but it was obviously the same phenomenon that happened when you were a kid and saw a rhino in the big storm clouds. Nothing there. I didnt say anything to him really. I just said “interesting” and gave them back because he was my friend and I didnt want to battle with him over something he felt so strongly about. But he believed with all his heart and soul that she WAS there. He could see her clear as day in these pictures. I think he saw her there because he WANTED to see her there , which is what I think happens with the Bible. I think people believe it to be fact because they WANT to believe it and there is nothing you could do to make them think otherwise. But one time I would like someone to answer the question, “What makes you think the Bible is real?” with a response other than “Well, because the Bible says so? Whats wrong with you?” ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-makes-people-think-that-the-bible-is-more-than-a-really-long-fictional-story/113627/25 "2002-06-13T06:54:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by photopat \* > Faith is all well and good, but the proof problem comes down to “the bible says it’s the word of God and God wouldn’t lie, so it must be true,” which of course begs the question, how do we know it’s really the word of God, and the response becomes, “because it’s the bible.” > > At that point I just walk away. You wait that long?😉 ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-makes-people-think-that-the-bible-is-more-than-a-really-long-fictional-story/113627/26 "2002-06-13T07:48:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hazel \* > **When Christians are challenged by non-believers, shouldn’t they just say something along the lines of, "My religion teaches me to accept its truth, and the validity of its holy book, on faith, and I do just that. …"** Only if that’s an accurate reflection of the reasons why they believe in Christianity. In many cases, it is not. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-makes-people-think-that-the-bible-is-more-than-a-really-long-fictional-story/113627/27 "2002-06-13T09:40:41Z")
Topo > [@](#): > > It’s just that I never have those revelations, and in a weak moment, I might think that it hurts to know that others have been chosen for the comfort of them and I have not. For me, it was a very slow train coming. We find whatever we seek. You seek truth. Have you told Truth you love Him? ---
**Author:** ![il\_Topo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/eb9ed0/32.png) [@il\_Topo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/il_Topo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-makes-people-think-that-the-bible-is-more-than-a-really-long-fictional-story/113627/28 "2002-06-13T15:25:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Topo > > For me, it was a very slow train coming. We find whatever we seek. You seek truth. Have you told Truth you love Him? \*\* I don’t know yet that Truth is a Person. I have to get past the “silliness factor” first, don’t I? I mean, it’s one thing for _you_ to say you love Him because you think He exists. It’s another if _I_ do when I’m not sure. Here is what I _have_ done: I have requested that He give me some indication that He is there. I’ve requested that He help me find Him. I’ve prayed for the ability to understand/see Him, if He is there. However, I have _not_ said, “I love you God.” How do I love Him if I don’t know that He is there? It seems to me that love comes later, after the relationship is at least begun (maybe even immediately thereafter but after nonetheless). I have many logical problems with the mainstream God existing given our world as it is (standard philosphical stuff like the problem of evil, etc.), but I think I’m prepared to set all of that aside as my own ignorance if I just knew He was there, or even had a good probability that He is there. I’ve never gambled without first having some picture of the odds. ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-makes-people-think-that-the-bible-is-more-than-a-really-long-fictional-story/113627/29 "2002-06-13T16:02:24Z")
Wishful thinking. It is too much for some to bear the possibility that we may be alone, so they call it a match before we’ve even gotten to the really good data. Before we find the truth. Before our work is done, and before all curiosity is satisfied. Me, I’ll wait for a tangible truth before I declare myself an authority on the nature and history of everything (including any potential creators, be they aliens, god(s), or just blind physics). I’ll probably have to wait a while, but I’m rooting (and planning) for immortality, and progress is made every day. There is so much new (confirmable) knowledge being brought to light every day, the idea that old mythology could even come close to revealing as much about the nature of existence strikes me as laughable. Man I can’t wait for that past viewer . . . DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-makes-people-think-that-the-bible-is-more-than-a-really-long-fictional-story/113627/30 "2002-06-13T16:56:15Z")
When I was in college I had a roommate who was an evangelical christian. One night as I was getting ready for bed he asked me if I was an atheist. I said no, but I did consider myself agnostic. He said he’d always wondered what atheists believe. We ended up having a short discussion in which I told him what I thought about religion and an afterlife and so on, and then he told me what he believed. I don’t remember much of it now, except a couple of phrases. He HAD to believe in Jesus, and-this one floored me- in a perfect world women couldn’t survive without God’s help. I still have no idea what he meant by that. I stopped him at that point and told him that I didn’t agree with any of what he had said and didn’t want to start an argument that would likely turn unpleasant. He was amazed when I told him I didn’t agree with him, as though having expressed his feelings I would be compelled to turn around and join him. We never discussed religion again, but occasionally I would find a Jack Chick tract on my desk or bed, and one time when his family was visiting I saw his mom ask him about me as they were leaving. She is deaf and as they were walking out I happened to turn and see her sign and mouth the phrase, “is he the one?” To which my roommate nodded. I felt better about that. Always like to make an impression. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-makes-people-think-that-the-bible-is-more-than-a-really-long-fictional-story/113627/31 "2002-06-13T17:23:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by il Topo \* > \*\* > > But this doesn’t help those of us who did not receive a sticky faith prior to the formation of our ability to reason logically (e.g., as youths, generally). After the transition to adulthood, when one no longer accepts ideas from others at face value without analysis, logic must lead one to the point of the faith leap, otherwise, how does one know when, where and how high to jump when making that faith leap? That is what’s going on in this discussion, I think. \*\* There are many Orthodox Jews today who were not observant as children and became Orthodox later in life, as adults. Often, however, you will find that what lead these people to becoming observant was not their belief that every story in the Bible happened exactly the way it is written, but the desire to become closer to God and observe the commandments. Sure, there are inconsistencies in the Bible, as written. If you read the Bible strictly as written, you can say that pi equals three and all the rest. There are, however, explanations for these, which you can choose to accept or reject. Most people, on become observant, choose to accept these, and, as such, the Bible no longer becomes just a “really long fictional story” but truth. What is the moment at which one should make that leap? That’s a good question. Ultimately each person makes that decision themselves, when they feel it’s right to make the lifestyle change. But the charge that it cannot happen once one develops their logical faculties is fallacious. > [@](#): > > \*\* > > No analogies are perfect, but the OP analogy is not totally without merit. After all, the Christian Bible wasn’t a “document” until several hundred years after Christ’s death. > > The Gospels were written many decades after the events being described. (It really makes one wonder how they got direct quotes, does it not?) 70 years in a time without persistent audiovisual storage media compares well to a thousand years in our time when it comes to discerning the veracity of eyewitness reports. > > Also, remember that the final content of the Christian Bible wasn’t selected until more than 350 years after the described events. Some Gospels were trashed, and the final four made the cut at a time well after anybody had any real basis to choose between them other than Church politics. This is no small issue. \*\* Well, again, I cannot comment on the Christian Bible. I am not (outside of the excellent Staff Report on the subject) terribly familiar with the circumstances of the transcribing and recording of the Gospels, so I cannot comment upon them. Zev Steinhardt [Fixed coding. – MEB] ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-makes-people-think-that-the-bible-is-more-than-a-really-long-fictional-story/113627/32 "2002-06-13T17:29:34Z")
:smack: Can a mod please fix the coding in my last post. I don’t believe I messed that up. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-makes-people-think-that-the-bible-is-more-than-a-really-long-fictional-story/113627/33 "2002-06-13T17:51:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by photopat \* > We never discussed religion again, but occasionally I would find a Jack Chick tract on my desk or bed Oh, ick! You mean there are people who seriously read those things?:eek: You should have hidden a tape player under his bed with something like: “This is God speaking - I command you to stop bothering your roommate”. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-makes-people-think-that-the-bible-is-more-than-a-really-long-fictional-story/113627/34 "2002-06-13T17:53:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by il Topo \* > \*\* > > I don’t know yet that Truth is a Person. I have to get past the “silliness factor” first, don’t I? I mean, it’s one thing for _you_ to say you love Him because you think He exists. It’s another if _I_ do when I’m not sure. > > Here is what I _have_ done: I have requested that He give me some indication that He is there. I’ve requested that He help me find Him. I’ve prayed for the ability to understand/see Him, if He is there. > > However, I have _not_ said, “I love you God.” How do I love Him if I don’t know that He is there? It seems to me that love comes later, after the relationship is at least begun (maybe even immediately thereafter but after nonetheless). > > I have many logical problems with the mainstream God existing given our world as it is (standard philosphical stuff like the problem of evil, etc.), but I think I’m prepared to set all of that aside as my own ignorance if I just knew He was there, or even had a good probability that He is there. I’ve never gambled without first having some picture of the odds. \*\* I love your sincerity and honesty. Maybe you could try what I tried. I set out to prove that Christian scholars didn’t know what they were talking about by translating John from the original Greek. I’m not saying that you should learn Greek. Trust me, the modern translations are accurate and faithful, as I learned for myself. Do you have John in a modern translation? If not, many are available online. Here’s [a good one](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=John+1&NIV_version=yes&showfn=no&showxref=no&language=english&x=7&y=1). Take your time. Go slow. Turn off the background noise. Try to prove that Jesus, as presented in John, is not worthy of worship, does not love you, and isn’t there. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-makes-people-think-that-the-bible-is-more-than-a-really-long-fictional-story/113627/35 "2002-06-13T18:10:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by il Topo \* > > However, I have _not_ said, “I love you God.” How do I love Him if I don’t know that He is there? It seems to me that love comes later, after the relationship is at least begun (maybe even immediately thereafter but after nonetheless). That’s it in a nutshell. So many people claim that God has revealed himself to them, but most of the time, when you get down to the nuts & bolts of the matter, you find that they are putting the cart before the horse. Don’t get me wrong - I’m not knocking anyone for their faith - it just doesn’t work that way for me. ---
**Author:** ![Swampwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Swampwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swampwolf)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-makes-people-think-that-the-bible-is-more-than-a-really-long-fictional-story/113627/36 "2002-06-13T20:48:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Try to prove that Jesus, _as presented in John,_ is not worthy of worship, does not love you, and isn’t there. \*\* (italics mine) I think that’s exactly the point that Philip and others are making. Where’s the proof that Jesus, \* as presented in John\* existed? Yes, we know there was most likely an historical figure named Jesus of Nazereth. Yes, there is a fairly good chance that he was a spiritual or civic leader of some sort. We can even ignore the fact that Yehoshua was probably a fairly common name, and the one for whom there is tangible proof of might not be the one about whom the NT was written. But assuming that it was written about a Jesus for whom proof exists, where are our assurances that it’s true? Even the most faithful on the boards is more than willing to admit that some of the stories, in the OT at least, are allegorical. Similarly, even the most cynical among us are willing to admit that some of the stories are in some way, factual. As for me, I don’t believe in the theology of the Book, but I do appreciate what it says. [sub] but that doesn’t mean I follow it[/sub] I take what I know to be based in historical fact, and treat is as such; likewise, I take what I know to be allegory and treat is as such. There is stil plenty left over which falls firmly into the grey area of “unknowable.” As strong as faith may be, it’s no guarantee that what is believed is true. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-makes-people-think-that-the-bible-is-more-than-a-really-long-fictional-story/113627/37 "2002-06-13T21:18:47Z")
Blessedwolf I don’t disagree with anything you said. All I’m saying is that I looked for Him in a tomb, and I found Him in my heart. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2002, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-makes-people-think-that-the-bible-is-more-than-a-really-long-fictional-story/113627/38 "2002-06-13T21:32:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blessedwolf \* > **As for me, I don’t believe in the theology of the Book, but I do appreciate what it says. …** The words of Christ, the Buddha, the Rede and Lao Tzu have no power of themselves. It is only through our efforts to Love our neighbors is the real power of Christ brought to the world. If we don’t act with Love, then all Christ taught and did is for naught. But if we do, then Faith is truly a powerful force. The parable of the Good Samaritan is a great example of what I’m talking about when I say that God is not exclusive to any one religion. Jesus taught that the Samaritan that helped the victim was the “good guy” in the story, not the pious religiously pure people who passed by. Although they passed by for practical and truly valid religious reasons, they missed the Spirit, that was summed up in Love Your Neighbor. Luke 10: 36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?” 37The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.” Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.” The Samaritan was not a Jew. He was not a disciple of Christ. We don’t know what religion he followed. Yet Jesus told us to be like him. Why? Because in the grand scheme of things the man actually was a follower of Christ when he showed Love for his fellow human. It seems to me that Jesus is showing that Creeds and Rites and Proper Belief Statements are not what is important. It is the action of Love that is what God wants from us. God is Love. And wherever we show Love, we show God, no matter what label \* if any\* we apply to ourselves whether Christian, Buddhist, Atheist or Wiccan. ---
**Author:** ![monica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a183cd/32.png) [@monica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monica)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2002, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-makes-people-think-that-the-bible-is-more-than-a-really-long-fictional-story/113627/39 "2002-06-14T01:54:07Z")
I think that there is some truth to the bible. However, think of it like a rumor. As rumors pass from person to person, they get exaggerated. For example, the information “Johnny and Josh got into an argument” could easily turn into “Johnny punched Josh and there was blood all over the place and…” The bible stories could also be exaggerated. With this concept in mind, the “resurection” could quite possibley have not really happened. Perhaps he was almost dead when he was removed from the cross, then nursed back to health. Someone might have commented “its almost as if he’s come back from the dead,” then been overheard and misquoted. Other stories may have seemed factual but were all based on perspective. Take the Flood, for instance. There is evidence that there was a major flood in the Mediterranean regions. This may have seemed like the whole world to people in that time; it was all they knew. Therefore, the flooding of the whole world was said to have taken place. ---
**Author:** ![AveDementia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc8723/32.png) [@AveDementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AveDementia)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2002, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-makes-people-think-that-the-bible-is-more-than-a-really-long-fictional-story/113627/40 "2002-06-14T11:57:40Z")
I’ve never posted in GD, either, but I wanted to check in as someone who has had experiences of the Divine- however it was not anything from out of the Book. From my experiences, what I see that is most lacking in debates about the nature of the Divine (and experiences of it, also) is that it is subjective. What actually might be “God” does not necessarily have the same characteristics as described in holy texts (unless you believe it does- which is the subjectiveness I am talking about). And I would go so far as to say that two people could have the same experience of awe/majesty/love and one of them could believe it was contact with their God, while the other could believe it was specific chemical/electrical processes in their brain and nothing more. And in my very humble opinion- neither of them are wrong. There are many degrees of separateness within religious thought and human experience that I don’t agree reflects reality. There are many artificial constructs of catagory that are percieved as being objective reality rather than subjective. The people dying of droughts in Africa are human, the person trying to convert others to another religion is human, the person gunned down is as human as the person who gunned them down, and even the person wearing the tinfoil hat with deer antlers is having the experience of being a human being. No human being can ever cease to be human beyond dying and decomposing, and that to me means that all the vast and diverse and ugly and beautiful varieties of human experience are exactly that- the human experience. That’s all we have, really, the totality of life on our planet as lived by all of us. What I’m trying to say, and probably not doing a very good job of, is if you haven’t had an experience wherein you could identify a sense of the Divine- that doesn’t mean that there is anything wrong with you, you are one person among billions of self-aware beings who is experiencing their life. Why some do and some don’t probably has more to do with brain chemistry and biology than a Divine will towards humans. It’s not a shortcoming, although it does sometimes seem to be a matter of societal norms when there is pressure from others to profess a shared perception of reality. In my opinion, lack of an experience of something identified as “Divine” is not a problem to be corrected, and I would also say that the Dr. Laura approach to religion (i.e. your religion is something that you stick with regardless of whether you have heartfelt feelings about it or not) is intellectually dishonest, because what spirituality is mostly about is feelings and intuition, neither of which can escape subjectivity. That’s my two and a half cents and I hope I don’t get flamed for it. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-makes-people-think-that-the-bible-is-more-than-a-really-long-fictional-story/113627.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-makes-people-think-that-the-bible-is-more-than-a-really-long-fictional-story/113627.md?page=3)