# What's mine is not yours! How far can you enforce that? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 7, 2019, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-mine-is-not-yours-how-far-can-you-enforce-that/830658 "2019-03-07T00:04:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-mine-is-not-yours-how-far-can-you-enforce-that/830658/41 "2019-03-08T13:39:55Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > If we for some reason grant that asserting ownership “made it so”, then — well, they’re legitimately _his_ now, right? Seems like it’d be a ludicrous system; but it also seems to me that, unless you add that the rich brother had the presence of mind to of course assert MINEMINEMINE when he killed the horse, what changes? Um, there were (and perhaps still are) times and situations where asserting ownership made it so. How do you think England, for one example, came to “own” the North American colonies? They came, said “It’s mine” and proceeded accordingly. A surprise to the natives for sure. The point I was making is that, without the relevant context we can’t know whether Zeke’s intentions were benign or malicious. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-mine-is-not-yours-how-far-can-you-enforce-that/830658/42 "2019-03-08T14:19:02Z")
Asserting ownership only makes it so when backed by force, and in the case at hand, horse-killing Jake was the one with with the power, not Zeke. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-mine-is-not-yours-how-far-can-you-enforce-that/830658/43 "2019-03-08T14:29:44Z")
Unless someone is literally preventing injury or death, the explanation, “he made me commit murder”, doesn’t hold much water in my estimation. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-mine-is-not-yours-how-far-can-you-enforce-that/830658/44 "2019-03-08T14:45:32Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > In the abbreviated story we read in class, after Big Claus (Jake) kills Little’s Claus’ (Zeke’s) horse, the poor man gets rich by tricking a man into buying the horse skin for a bag of money. The rich man then gets greedy, kills all of his horses believing he can get even richer but isn’t able to sell their skins and consequently becomes poor. Sort of a comic justice (except for the unfortunate man who bought the skin. As my eight-year-old son astutely pointed out, that’s not nice). I thought it might be based on this. Many rich man/poor man stories follow this theme, the rich man’s arrogance results in a boon for the poor man and the rich man hobbles himself trying to replicate the poor man’s good fortune. Sorry your dad was a psychopath and entirely missed the point of the story. Had to deal with that kind of crap myself. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-mine-is-not-yours-how-far-can-you-enforce-that/830658/45 "2019-03-08T14:50:59Z")
I’m sorry you had to experience that. I don’t even think the poor brother was wrong, since he was talking to the horses, and they were his to use at the time. I was wondering if “go horses” meant he was setting them all free, in effect, stealing his brother’s horses, but it seems that no, he was just talking to them as they plowed his field. Freaking out over what a man says to a horse seems wrong in pretty much any circumstance. Killing his horse for that offense is criminally wrong. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-mine-is-not-yours-how-far-can-you-enforce-that/830658/46 "2019-03-08T16:16:47Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > Um, there were (and perhaps still are) times and situations where asserting ownership made it so. How do you think England, for one example, came to “own” the North American colonies? They came, said “It’s mine” and proceeded accordingly. A surprise to the natives for sure. Why didn’t those natives merely say “mine” right back? ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-mine-is-not-yours-how-far-can-you-enforce-that/830658/47 "2019-03-08T16:29:01Z")
Because their culture made no provision for that, other than take it back by force. In some cases that was tried, with varying short term results. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-mine-is-not-yours-how-far-can-you-enforce-that/830658/48 "2019-03-08T16:35:57Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > Because their culture made no provision for that, other than take it back by force. In some cases that was tried, with varying short term results. I’m sorry; I’m not sure I’m following this. How do you think the English would’ve responded to hearing a quick “mine” right back? Do you figure that they’d have let it go at that, or replied with a quick “no, mine” right back, or what? ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-mine-is-not-yours-how-far-can-you-enforce-that/830658/49 "2019-03-08T16:45:23Z")
IMO Zeke wasn’t very wrong for saying “my” horses. He had been granted access to them and was in control of them at the moment. Jake was just a vengeful hothead. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-mine-is-not-yours-how-far-can-you-enforce-that/830658/50 "2019-03-08T17:06:05Z")
It’s amazing that someone with the chip on his shoulder and anger issues as the father managed to stay out of prison long enough to have a wife and kids. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-mine-is-not-yours-how-far-can-you-enforce-that/830658/51 "2019-03-08T17:21:33Z")
My friends, my countryman, my co-workers, my teammates, my family, my fellow Dopers…which of you do I own? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-mine-is-not-yours-how-far-can-you-enforce-that/830658/52 "2019-03-08T21:36:34Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > IMO Zeke wasn’t very wrong for saying “my” horses. He had been granted access to them and was in control of them at the moment. Jake was just a vengeful hothead. The fact that he claimed ownership without prompting is troubling. If you loaned me your coat and I left it behind in a restaurant and the server ran after me and asked, “Is this your coat?” then I could understand simply saying “yes” and not going into detail about how you loaned it to me. But Zeke here seems to be claiming ownership. It would be as if after you loaned me your coat, I simply stated, for seemingly no reason at all, “Ah, my wonderful coat and the warmth it brings me!” Why did Zeke feel the need to claim ownership of the horses when he could have easily said, “Go forth, horses” or “Giddyup”? ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-mine-is-not-yours-how-far-can-you-enforce-that/830658/53 "2019-03-08T21:43:23Z")
For the record, I clicked the wrong one, so one of the Zeke votes should be a Jake. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-mine-is-not-yours-how-far-can-you-enforce-that/830658/54 "2019-03-08T21:46:13Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > The fact that he claimed ownership without prompting is troubling. > > If you loaned me your coat and I left it behind in a restaurant and the server ran after me and asked, “Is this your coat?” then I could understand simply saying “yes” and not going into detail about how you loaned it to me. > > But Zeke here seems to be claiming ownership. It would be as if after you loaned me your coat, I simply stated, for seemingly no reason at all, “Ah, my wonderful coat and the warmth it brings me!” > > Why did Zeke feel the need to claim ownership of the horses when he could have easily said, “Go forth, horses” or “Giddyup”? My good man, this is absurd. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-mine-is-not-yours-how-far-can-you-enforce-that/830658/55 "2019-03-08T21:56:37Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > My good man, this is absurd. I’m not saying you should destroy all of my coats because I said that, but it wouldn’t bother you if you loan me something and I start calling it mine for no real reason? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-mine-is-not-yours-how-far-can-you-enforce-that/830658/56 "2019-03-08T22:28:48Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I remember being lectured by an old fella at work about how theft of property or trespassing is as serious a crime as murder, and once someone has crossed that line, he is permanently changed and there’s no way to fix that person, so killing him is justified. For quite a long time in English law it was easier to get hanged for theft than for killing. I can only attribute this to extreme poverty, the sort of attitude where a toddler who innocently tries on the king’s crown gets drawn and quartered for treason, and possibly widespread lead exposure from pewter vessels. ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-mine-is-not-yours-how-far-can-you-enforce-that/830658/57 "2019-03-08T22:31:38Z")
> [@Teuton](#): > > For the record, I clicked the wrong one, so one of the Zeke votes should be a Jake. (two of them) ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-mine-is-not-yours-how-far-can-you-enforce-that/830658/58 "2019-03-08T22:44:55Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I’m not saying you should destroy all of my coats because I said that, but it wouldn’t bother you if you loan me something and I start calling it mine for no real reason? My good man, it depends on audience and context. As you noted there are people who aren’t interested in the subtle distinctions of whether you legally own the thing you’re talking about - ownership as a concept actually expands to include things that you have charge of. For example I go home every day to my apartment - but legally speaking I don’t actually own the residence. And yet the renting office themselves refer to the apartment as being mine, because I have charge of it. The only case where this would become inaccurate is if somebody came specifically asking about _legal_ ownership. In the situation in the OP, I don’t think that the horses were concerned about that distinction. Also I’ve now called you “my good man” twice, and if I say it a third time you officially become my property as a slave for life. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-mine-is-not-yours-how-far-can-you-enforce-that/830658/59 "2019-03-08T22:59:00Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I’m not saying you should destroy all of my coats because I said that, but it wouldn’t bother you if you loan me something and I start calling it mine for no real reason? What if you are talking to the coat? > [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > My friends, my countryman, my co-workers, my teammates, my family, my fellow Dopers…which of you do I own? Also this. I think “my” usually refers to “the one I am am aligned with/using/in contact with” and “the one I own” is only a subset of that. Although I did once get some funny looks for referring to “my subway car”, when of course I was referring to the car I happened to be riding in. So I guess usage varies. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2019, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-mine-is-not-yours-how-far-can-you-enforce-that/830658/60 "2019-03-08T23:51:43Z")
Say you borrow your brother’s car, and you said something like, “My car is parked over there,” or “That guy ran right out in front of my car!” I don’t believe that means you’re claiming ownership of the car; you’re simply referring to the car you happen to be using at the time. Surely you plan to return the car to your brother. That’s pretty much how I view the OP’s story. On the surface of it, I see no foul play or trickery in Zeke’s turn of phrase, and no evidence that he wants the horses for his own. Jake overreacted. As for the backstory, it’s almost as if **TokyoBayer** is wondering after all these years if it’s his fault that his dad beat him. I really hope you know that it’s _not_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-mine-is-not-yours-how-far-can-you-enforce-that/830658.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-mine-is-not-yours-how-far-can-you-enforce-that/830658.md?page=4)