# What's my hobby called? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 7, 2009, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-my-hobby-called/480203 "2009-01-07T08:05:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CalD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7feea3/32.png) [@CalD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalD)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-my-hobby-called/480203/1 "2009-01-07T08:05:49Z")
Hi there, I’ve had a particular hobby my whole life, but don’t know if it has a proper name, or if there’s “hobby groups” based around it. My hobby is this: _I have an interest in studying methods used to defeat a system that has been designed to not be defeated_. For example, I enjoy learning about things such as: - Prison escapes - Card counting - Lock picking - Code breaking (cryptography) - Heists My hobby does not extend to puzzles that are designed to be beatable (such as sudoku or crosswords), but only to things that are theoretically designed to not be beaten. What’s my hobby called, and are there hobby groups based on it? ---
**Author:** ![Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Petrobey_Mavromihalis)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-my-hobby-called/480203/2 "2009-01-07T10:11:24Z")
> [@CalD](#): > > Hi there, > > I’ve had a particular hobby my whole life, but don’t know if it has a proper name, or if there’s “hobby groups” based around it. > > My hobby is this: > > _I have an interest in studying methods used to defeat a system that has been designed to not be defeated_. > > For example, I enjoy learning about things such as: > > - Prison escapes > - Card counting > - Lock picking > - Code breaking (cryptography) > - Heists > > My hobby does not extend to puzzles that are designed to be beatable (such as sudoku or crosswords), but only to things that are theoretically designed to not be beaten. > > What’s my hobby called, and are there hobby groups based on it? It’s called crime. Perhaps contact the Mafia? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-my-hobby-called/480203/3 "2009-01-07T10:40:44Z")
Beating the system, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-my-hobby-called/480203/4 "2009-01-07T10:57:23Z")
> [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](#): > > It’s called crime. > > Perhaps contact the Mafia? > > :dubious: 😕 Studying a crime now? ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-my-hobby-called/480203/5 "2009-01-07T11:57:01Z")
Maybe one of the definitions of “hacking” (as in “computer hacking”, but I think I’ve heard some people generalize the term to more than just computers). ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-my-hobby-called/480203/6 "2009-01-07T13:11:30Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > Maybe one of the definitions of “hacking” (as in “computer hacking”, but I think I’ve heard some people generalize the term to more than just computers). The more correct term would be **cracker** , a more specific term than hacker and which is about circumvention (of passwords, protective codes, security systems). Cracker has been used in this context for many years (safecracker, cracking code, etc). Another term historically used in the same way is **breaker** , thus safe breaker, prison break, code breaker. Si ---
**Author:** ![Wiltshire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ea5d25/32.png) [@Wiltshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wiltshire)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-my-hobby-called/480203/7 "2009-01-07T13:20:47Z")
“Security research”. (Yeah. They’re all criminals. :rolleyes: Independent knowledge in this field must not be tolerated. People like Bruce Schneier should have _never_ been allowed to get started and should be denounced as Mafiosi as soon as they show the first sign of interest in this stuff.) Here’s another vote for “hacker”, in the broader sense of the word as it pertains to the meaning of someone being part of the “hacker culture” in general. You should feel right at home at organisations such as [Chaos Computer Club - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_Computer_Club), or at events like [DEF CON - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEF_CON) which features lockpicking contests among other things. ---
**Author:** ![Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Petrobey_Mavromihalis)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-my-hobby-called/480203/8 "2009-01-07T14:58:35Z")
Sorry, I made a silly joke. Wrong forum for that. I’m interested in this kind of thing too. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-my-hobby-called/480203/9 "2009-01-07T15:05:38Z")
[Tiger team - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_team) ? ---
**Author:** ![Hi\_Neighbor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hi_neighbor/32/494_2.png) [@Hi\_Neighbor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hi_Neighbor)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-my-hobby-called/480203/10 "2009-01-07T15:31:22Z")
Why is it that you study these methods? Is it out of curiosity, or is it that you wish to create and exercise new methods in real life situations? ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-my-hobby-called/480203/11 "2009-01-07T16:00:00Z")
RE: Card counting. There is a small group (not in an organized sense; just that they often show up at the same times and places when opportunities are presented) of professional gamblers who call themselves “advantage seekers.” ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-my-hobby-called/480203/12 "2009-01-07T16:03:26Z")
> [@si\_blakely](#): > > The more correct term would be **cracker** , a more specific term than hacker and which is about circumvention Although I’m aware that “cracker” is used in this way, it’s hard for me to say it without feeling like I’m doing a Chris Rock bit. ---
**Author:** ![CalD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7feea3/32.png) [@CalD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalD)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-my-hobby-called/480203/13 "2009-01-07T17:25:58Z")
Thanks for the responses, guys. “Hacking” and “cracking”, hey? Interesting. > [@](#): > > Why is it that you study these methods? Is it out of curiosity, or is it that you wish to create and exercise new methods in real life situations? Curiosity. I have never employed any “hacking” or “cracking” methods to perform an illegal activity. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-my-hobby-called/480203/14 "2009-01-07T17:26:09Z")
I dont consider this as a hobby but I find myself by habit thinking about this sort of thing almost continuosly in parrallel with my more normal mundane day to day thinking. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-my-hobby-called/480203/15 "2009-01-07T17:37:34Z")
Defeatism? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-my-hobby-called/480203/16 "2009-01-07T17:42:14Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > Although I’m aware that “cracker” is used in this way, it’s hard for me to say it without feeling like I’m doing a Chris Rock bit. Try using crack’sman, Donald Sutherland used this term in the great train robbery. Declan ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-my-hobby-called/480203/17 "2009-01-07T18:13:47Z")
> [@CalD](#): > > What’s my hobby called, and are there hobby groups based on it? Well if you are good at it, there is a company called Leverage Consulting that might be interested in your services. ---
**Author:** ![Wiltshire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ea5d25/32.png) [@Wiltshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wiltshire)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-my-hobby-called/480203/18 "2009-01-07T20:57:21Z")
> [@Hi\_Neighbor](#): > > Why is it that you study these methods? Is it out of curiosity, or is it that you wish to create and exercise new methods in real life situations? Did you really expect an answer like “Yes we’re planning a heist” to this? Of course it’s curiosity and the eagerness for knowledge. The desire to be part of a vigilant and well-educated populace. A knowledgeable majority, whose awareness and understanding of certain procedures is the most effective protection from another minority being able to use them against us. Instead, you have to be afraid (or insane) to discuss security issues in public these days. The slightest suspicion suffices and another harmless bloke gets a gratuitous surprise visit from armed forces, simply because some tipster freaked out over his choice of hobbies. Don’t dabble in the “wrong” sciences, don’t appear to “know too much”, don’t even _think_ about how someone might cause security measures to fail. Because that’s the job of _evil_ people, isn’t it? No offense was taken, I’m sure, though I hope it’s understandable why it isn’t helping the political climate, or the cause of honest security researchers, when a whole range of interests and activities gets jokingly pushed into the “suspicious” corner and people keep asking “Are you up to something?”. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-my-hobby-called/480203/19 "2009-01-07T21:27:43Z")
Don’t know of any particular hobby groups, but (if you’re not already reading it), [Schneier on Security](http://www.schneier.com/blog/) would interest you I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-my-hobby-called/480203/20 "2009-01-07T21:36:44Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Try using crack’sman, Donald Sutherland used this term in the great train robbery. This one is too much like “gashman.” Pretty ambiguous, unless that’s what you’re after. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-my-hobby-called/480203.md?page=2)