# What's next for the pro-insurrectionists? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 8, 2021, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-for-the-pro-insurrectionists/929994 "2021-01-08T02:51:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-for-the-pro-insurrectionists/929994/101 "2021-01-10T05:59:49Z")
This is a fantastic post. You’ve done a brilliant job of describing the essence of the believers. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-for-the-pro-insurrectionists/929994/102 "2021-01-10T06:07:14Z")
> [@Chad\_Sudan](#): > > What’s next for the pro-insurrectionists? Possibly death by lead poisoning if they return to D.C. in the next eleven days. > **[Incoming National Guard troops will be armed with lethal force, Pennsylvania...](https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/dc/armed-national-guard-troops-arriving-from-six-states-inauguration/65-a71e778b-177a-4c1f-b972-440c575f3e87)** > > More than 5,000 troops from six states will join the 1,100 D.C. National Guard members currently working in Washington, according to Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-for-the-pro-insurrectionists/929994/103 "2021-01-10T06:09:13Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > What can they do? Mount another attack on the US Congress? Attack the White House after January 20th? They can plot and plan all they want, but taking down the Government would require a lot more money and resources than they will ever have. Perhaps they will organize their own political party and come out from behind the shadows… nahhhh Strategic acts of terror can wear down a nation and its people, its how Afghanistan beat both the US and USSR. So random acts of terror to disrupt infrastructure, kill their political opponents, create a feeling of insecurity is probably their next tactic. ---
**Author:** ![BrickBat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac91a4/32.png) [@BrickBat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrickBat)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-for-the-pro-insurrectionists/929994/104 "2021-01-10T06:11:18Z")
Fantastic post ‘guizot’. For 30 years I noticed that same dynamic building, and you nailed it squarely. I’ve lived it: The media, movies, talk radio, stupid Tom Clancy books, suspension of disbelief “tough guy” films, TV shows glorifying renegade cops. People whose fantasies are: not of happiness and prosperity, but to have some ( heathen group ) try to break into their homes so that they can blast away with their 17 round magazine Glocks, and met with smiling approval from a LEO when they arrive and investigate/haul off the perp…or what’s left of him. Fucking loonies, the lot of them. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-for-the-pro-insurrectionists/929994/105 "2021-01-10T06:11:49Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Strategic acts of terror can wear down a nation and its people, its how Afghanistan beat both the US and USSR. This requires massive support from outside the country. E.g. the USSR fought against rebels supplied by the US. It’s also different when rebels and government are the same people. The Weathermen went on a bombing spree through much of the 70’s but they didn’t have that much impact. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-for-the-pro-insurrectionists/929994/106 "2021-01-10T11:49:23Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > One of the traitors was [identified (and he apparantly admitted it) as a retired Air Force Lieutenant Colonel](https://www.yahoo.com/news/rioter-seen-senate-floor-combat-145400571.htmld). IIRC, one part of what’s next for him is he loses his retirement pay and benefits I just learned something new. US military retirees can still be court-martialled. > **[Military retirees can still be court-martialed, Supreme Court affirms](https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2019/02/25/military-retirees-can-still-be-court-martialed-supreme-court-affirms/)** > > The decision leaves the possibility open for retirees implicated in high-profile scandals to face punishment, to include sailors involved in the Navy’s “Fat Leonard” scandal and retired Gen. David Petraeus’ affair with his biographer. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-for-the-pro-insurrectionists/929994/107 "2021-01-10T12:18:47Z")
> [@Kelby](#): > > Hopefully those in the RNC (can’t see DNC doing this) have recognized the monster for what it is. I fear not. I think they’ve recognized the monster, but are convinced that the next time they’ll be able to control it and ride it to victory. > “This time it will be different. This time we’ll keep a firm hand on the reins.” ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-for-the-pro-insurrectionists/929994/108 "2021-01-10T12:25:10Z")
One thing we can be sure of, is the moment Biden is in office the FBI and the DoJ will crack down _hard_ on right-wing militant groups. They will also seriously step up monitoring them, and infiltrating them. If the big social media and internet companies continue to cut them off (as they are now belatedly doing), perhaps with help from new legislation, these right-wing groups have no future. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-for-the-pro-insurrectionists/929994/109 "2021-01-10T12:36:14Z")
Maybe I’m being too optimistic, but I do think Trump will lose support after this. The more videos they see of how very violent it really was, will I hope, shake some of them out of “it”. There is video from a family member of the woman shot and he blames Trump for her death. > And then theres the regret expressed by Brad Ruckstales and others that I’ve seen. But I’m still worried that there will be more violence by the hard core believers. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-for-the-pro-insurrectionists/929994/110 "2021-01-10T14:38:16Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > Maybe I’m being too optimistic, but I do think Trump will lose support after this Look for updates here. The most recent polls show 38%; they’re from the day of the riot, and reflect a dip over the previous week (from about 41%), perhaps in part due to Trump’s pathetic attempts to overturn his loss in Georgia, or maybe it has nothing to do with that. In any case, I hope the next update — with polls being conducted right now — shows a deeper dip, down to the low 30s. > **[How Popular Is Donald Trump?](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo)** > > FiveThirtyEight is tracking Donald Trump’s approval ratings throughout his presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Kelby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a587f6/32.png) [@Kelby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelby)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-for-the-pro-insurrectionists/929994/111 "2021-01-10T18:50:10Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > > [@Kelby](#): > > > > Conservative Entertainment Complex. Led by the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck. > > This is what it is. It’s not even a legitimate political cause. It’s essentially people who are trying to live out a fantasy, consumed as entertainment. It’s a fantasy which they have built on narratives from film and TV, delivered to them by Trump, Limbaugh, Fox, etc. > > They fantasize that they are “patriots,” or Dirty Harry, or commandoes, or whatever, and it’s the final scene from the movie where they prevail over the “bad guys.” It’s a fantasy that they desperately pursue, attempting to make their meaningless lives important. > > I call it _make-believism_. They make themselves believe all of this, and Trump provides them the narratives they need. He isn’t the first: Limbaugh, Gingrich, Cruz et al have been doing it for a long time already. But they were never as good at it as Trump. In his case, it has become the ONLY thing he knows how to do–it’s the fundamental basis of his con game as a fake president. He’s melded it into his constant, attention-whoring act, and spews these bullshit narratives without even thinking. > > Make-believism isn’t anything new. It’s the underlying mechanism of all cults, and in that way, this is essentially a cult. It’s also the mechanism driving conspiracy theorists. They fantasize that they are the one person in the movie who is able to find out the real truth (about whatever), and no one believes them until the end, when they save they day. Mass shooters, too, are make-believers. They make themselves believe they are the one hero in the movie who finds himself the only good person in a whole community of evil, and in these movies, the hero always has to shoot his way out in the end. > > These are all people who desperately want to be the protagonist of a movie script, to make their little lives more important. Not all make-believers are necessarily driven by political or social ideals, but in Trump’s case, the script perfectly fits their racist and ethno-nationalist impulses, and he very deliberately cultivates that–(much better than Cruz was able to, though Cruz still is trying). Just like in any cult, their motivation isn’t going to be swayed by rational reasoning or facts, or by pointing out the contradictions in their leaders’ statements, or his blatant corruption, or his purely self-serving actions. All they want is a narrative, where they can make themselves believe that they are the hero. > > Make-believism really isn’t anything particularly new. There have always been people who fantasize like Walter Mitty. And it isn’t the sole provenance of the political right. It can be the mechanism motivating people of all political stripes and social dispositions. But–starting with Rush Limbaugh and other talk radio–for the last four decades the right wing has been skillfully leveraging it and exploiting it. It has become its most effective tool for attracting people who really otherwise have no reason to embrace their political ideology. > > But what’s really new is that online communications have changed everything in the world of make-believers. From Facebook to 8chan they now have echo-chambers which amplify their fantasies and validate them (in their view), to the point where taking action becomes easily justified and facilitated. Instead of a brother or sister saying, “Dude, what the fuck are you thinking,” they just have endless reverberations of their own sad self-exaltations. > > In no way would I ever minimize the damage they have done, (and which such people do in general), but at bottom these are bozos. They have no clue what they would do if they actually could take control of the Capital, because their movie script doesn’t go that far. In this sense, they don’t even deserve the title “insurrectionists,” They’re just bozos, who managed to cause a lot of harm. > > People have to stop wringing their hands and expose these make-believers for what they are: children playing cowboys and Indians who got their hands onto real weapons. They need to be slapped in the face, and told to sit in the corner. They need to be mocked and ridiculed, to the point where they’ll finally be embarrassed to show their faces, and where they finally realize that they are not heroes in some movie but just pathetic losers. > > That’s what the media should be doing, but instead, the media are just amplifying these losers by focusing on the fear they caused in the moment, which only gratifies them, and will encourage them to do more of this. They did the same thing with with Trump, which only made him more appealing to these losers. I can’t believe they’re doing it again. Thanks for fleshing out the concept so well. Kudos! ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-for-the-pro-insurrectionists/929994/112 "2021-01-10T21:42:34Z")
Domestic terrorism. Bombings, shootings, vehicle attacks. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-for-the-pro-insurrectionists/929994/113 "2021-01-11T17:37:15Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > They’ve both moved to Parler because Facebook is a “corrupt platform.” Have you tried parler this morning? It’s off the air for the time being. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-for-the-pro-insurrectionists/929994/114 "2021-01-11T18:58:00Z")
I’d never been on Parler and wouldn’t have gone. I don’t have the stomach for that sort of thing. Parler went dead not long after I posted that. I’m relieved. However, neither of the people I referred to have been back on Facebook or Twitter. I haven’t checked other platforms yet. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-for-the-pro-insurrectionists/929994/115 "2021-01-11T20:25:41Z")
So… we get reports of “[a proposed secondary attack on the US Capitol and state capitol buildings on January 17, 2021](https://twitter.com/GeoffRBennett/status/1347696690841739267)” from… the administrators at Twitter. Not (as far as I’m aware) from any senior US government official. So here’s a credible, imminent national-security threat, and because the president’s the instigator, our national-security apparatus can’t (or won’t) even warn the country. In addition to that event, I can see Trump taking some other last-ditch action before January 20 to direct his armed militants – or perhaps some federal law enforcement he sees as loyal – to stop the transition by force. Can you imagine him **not** trying? ---
**Author:** ![squidfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a87d85/32.png) [@squidfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squidfood)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-for-the-pro-insurrectionists/929994/116 "2021-01-11T20:40:29Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > The most recent polls show 38%; they’re from the day of the riot, and reflect a dip over the previous week (from about 41%) A 33% Marist poll just got added to the average. An outlier so far but one of the lowest of the last 4 years. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-for-the-pro-insurrectionists/929994/117 "2021-01-11T21:19:19Z")
I agree with your analysis of the movement but not your conclusion. We have been trying that approach, the pointing and laughing, the wars of words that slayed the barely literate. It’s how I handled the past four years, you have to use the weapons you have. What is coming is inevitable and I do not think Wednesday was an isolated incident. I’m going to say it. I think I’ll be the first. We need to treat Wednesday’s attack as the first volley in a civil war. I’m not going to capitalize the words, I’m not there yet. It’s hard to wrap your head around, I’ve been using the phrase “failure of imagination” a lot recently. But let’s say I find the total silence from the White House and federal agencies extremely troubling. We should be getting hours long press conferences on a daily basis, with agency leader after agency leader speaking. Now it may not be a long war, or a significant war. There is a chance, however slight, that Wednesday’s attack was the first and last volley. But when does an insurrection become a war? How do we recognize what we’ve never seen in our lifetime? Like I said in another post, a stupid army is still an army, especially if their guns are real. But I think the tech companies did what need to be done, considering the circumstances. I don’t say this lightly. I realize that using insurrection or war to erode civil liberties is a _ **horrible** _ precedent. That’s why we allowed the a president to muster an army on the White House lawn and send them to attack Congress. But both-sideism and an attempt at fair play is what got us here. In our efforts to be balanced, we allowed ourselves to be dragged halfway down the rabbit hole. This culminated when we allowed “Is Joe Biden the winner of the 2020 election?” to become a legitimate question. We gave too much already. We never should have let “Is it OK for a President to use a threat to withhold foreign aid unless their President does our President a corrupt personal favor?” to become a legitimate question. I’m glad someone is trying to stop the cycle and de-platform enemy propaganda. I applaud the tech companies. If they do it the government won’t have to, and that will be better for our liberties in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-for-the-pro-insurrectionists/929994/118 "2021-01-12T00:12:28Z")
> [@squidfood](#): > > A 33% Marist poll just got added to the average. An outlier so far but one of the lowest of the last 4 years. Good to know — thanks. Marist is very highly rated, so this likely reflects a real trend. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-for-the-pro-insurrectionists/929994/119 "2021-01-12T12:27:10Z")
That 33% was actually from Quinnipiac (almost as highly rated as Marist) — and it is now basically confirmed by two polls from Morning Consult (less well rated, but the trend is clear). In sum, Trump’s favorables were at almost 45% on Election Day, and trending upward. His post-election shenanigans and neglect of duties had gradually eroded that to around 41%. His incitement to riot against the US government/last-ditch efforts to end American democracy a week ago have accelerated this decline, and now he’s down in the low-to-mid 30s, a historic repudiation of a sitting president. (Though still horrendous he commands that much approval — now or ever). ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-for-the-pro-insurrectionists/929994/120 "2021-01-12T15:21:38Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > now he’s down in the low-to-mid 30s, a historic repudiation of a sitting president Mind numbing level of support for a sitting seditionist [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-for-the-pro-insurrectionists/929994.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-for-the-pro-insurrectionists/929994.md?page=7)