# What's Next, Tri-Polar? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 15, 2003, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-tri-polar/148784 "2003-01-15T18:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Witch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/258eb7/32.png) [@Witch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Witch)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-tri-polar/148784/121 "2003-01-16T17:27:54Z")
Logical fallacies? Politics? I’m glad it’s just a concept you can intellectualize **AHunter3**. I don’t have that luxury. You see, almost one out of four of us will commit suicide. I really wasn’t thinking about whether whether what I was feeling was a “fallacy” or the “politics” involved when I considered either picking up the knife or picking up the phone. You need to give people the benefit of the doubt, and not be so damn judgemental. I’d rather deal with a Drama Queen friend than see her/him dead. Remember, you’re the one saying the docs can’t crawl inside someones head and say for sure something’s really wrong. Well, can you, with no training at all, crawl in and say for sure nothing really IS? I’d rather err on the side of caution, thanks. Not everything is an excuse for a damn political tirade. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-tri-polar/148784/122 "2003-01-16T17:28:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > \*\*I’m sorry bordelond. I guess I misread what you were asking before. Carry on. \*\* I’m embarrassed that you felt the need to apologize. On the contrary, I appreciated your input. I was just wondering if you had any gained any “oh by the way” external medical knowledge (as opposed to a personal, internal knowledge) from discussions with your health care provider. … **Auntie em** , information regarding a correlation between intelligence/creativity and mental illness seems to be somewhat muddled. [Here we appear to have blanket denial](http://shalomhouseinc.org/aboutmi.htm) of such a correlation: > [@](#): > > _(my formatting - information on this page is in table form)_ > > Q #4. Mental illness is the same as mental retardation. > > A. Mental illness is not the same as mental retardation, which is a developmental condition that people are born with. Mental illness develops later in life. **There is not a correlation between intelligence and mental illness.** Then we have this [well-researched layman’s article](http://www.geocities.com/apollo_uiuc/madness.html) presenting the counterpoint: > [@](#): > > _(paragraph breaks mine)_ > > \*\*It would seem that in this study of madness and genius in individuals, that in some way or another, they are unavoidably linked. In most art, the expression is a result of a need to resolve emotional difficulties. At the very least, it would seem that a neurosis is required for creative artistic output. For the extreme, abnormal geniuses-as in the cases of Mozart and Einstein-the “madness” is more a result of the abnormal intensity at which their minds function. It would seem that since they are so hyper-intelligent, their state-of-mind couldn’t be compared to ordinary humans. In this sense, by mere definition, they are abnormal, hence “mad.” > > Contrastingly, it seems that pure madness in the cases I have gone over seems to hamper creative output. For the ones who actually were insane for periods in their life, their creative periods were interrupted by these breaks into psychosis. It does not seem that one can be psychotic and be able to express himself at the same time through cohesive, creative output. > > Contrastingly, complete normalcy hampers creative output just as effectively. When van Gogh was busy trying to find work as a businessman or minister, he wasn’t being creative. If Mozart wasn’t given as much attention when he was little, he might not have been quite the genius he would have become. For others, normalcy would have prevented a desire to express and to create. > > Another link between genius and madness is that some sought to use creativity to understand their own problems. Freud attempted to use a systematic approach to understand his neurosis, and thus was born the beginnings of modern psychoanalysis. Writers like Woolf and Dickens used their creative skills to somehow exorcise the demons that plagued them. While we do not understand entirely how and why madness and genius coexist in certain individuals, but it is certain that correlations do exist between the two and that they have powerful influences on each other.\*\* > > _(this article ends with useful bibliographic references.)_ The pendulum swings the other way [here in a transcript of an online Q&A session with journalist David Jackson](http://www.time.com/time/community/transcripts/chattr111297.html), who had covered the Ted Kaczynski (aka “the Unabomber”) trial for _Time_ magazine: > [@](#): > > \*\*_Isn’t it hard to argue that someone with a genius IQ of 170 has diminished capacity?_ > > David\_Jackson says, “No, not at all. There is no correlation between intelligence and sanity. (Kaczynski’s) “diminished capacity” would refer to his mental ability to form intent required by law to be found guilty of this crime. It does not refer to his intellectual capacity. His attorneys want to argue that his mental disease affected his ability to form intent.”\*\* The scholarly article [_CREATIVITY, MENTAL HEALTH AND SOCIAL PRESSURES_](http://www.nfgcc.org/43.htm) by Ralph H. Ojemann, director of Child-Educational Psychology and Preventative Psychiatry for Educational Research Council of America (and also a professor at Kent State and Cleveland State Universities): > [@](#): > > **However, the well-known fact that many creative thinkers, writers, artists, and scientists were able to make a reasonable adaptation to their physical and social world suggests that creativity and mental health are not always incompatible. It seems to me that there are too many examples of creative individuals who were not or did not become obviously neurotic or psychotic to conclude that neuroticism is essential to creativity. It appears, therefore, that our question is, in those cases in which a creative life was beset with mental illness rather early in its course, were there any indications as to what factors may have operated?** Finally, further down on the same web page as Ojemann’s article, in his paper _CREATIVE FUNCTIONING AND MENTAL HEALTH_, University of Georgia psychologist E. Paul Torrance expounds on the following thesis: > [@](#): > > **Anyone who thinks of genuinely new idea is always at first a minority of one. Scientific evidence indicates that extremely few people can tolerate being a minority of one, even when they know that they are “right.” Since creatively gifted children have many new, original ideas. they inescapably experience difficult problems of adjustment. Such children must either repress their creativity or learn to cope with the tensions that arise from being so frequently a minority of one. Repression of creative needs and abilities, if prolonged and severe, may lead to actual personality breakdown. Their expression, however, also leads to loneliness, conflicts, and punishment.** ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-tri-polar/148784/123 "2003-01-16T17:28:44Z")
sorry, that last post of mine was a reply to **ultrafilter** above me. Forgot to quote him. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-tri-polar/148784/124 "2003-01-16T17:32:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AHunter3 \* > \*\*Only if there are no exterior causes, so that the emotional and/or cognitive state can be said to be _other than a response to the environment_, such that the emotional or cognitive state is an unpleasant and debilitating ANOMALY, does it make sense to say that such a state is caused by brain problems. \*\* All right, I see where you’re coming from. I’m gonna think about this for a while. ---
**Author:** ![auntie\_em](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@auntie\_em](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auntie_em)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-tri-polar/148784/125 "2003-01-16T17:33:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > \*\*So yes, definitely, it can be a catchall phrase for people who just need to take a hot bath and wrap a hot towel around their head. \*\* Bueller . . . ? Bueller . . . ? Sorry. More to the point: yes, I had written a post to this effect yesterday afternoon (about how there perhaps needs to be an adjustment in _terminology_ so that people don’t make glib/incorrect assumptions about clinical depression. But the hamster was hungry, I guess. At any rate, I second (third?) the thanks for the enlightenment on this issue from those with experience. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-tri-polar/148784/126 "2003-01-16T17:38:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bordelond \* > \*\*I’m embarrassed that you felt the need to apologize. On the contrary, I appreciated your input. I was just wondering if you had any gained any “oh by the way” external medical knowledge (as opposed to a personal, internal knowledge) from discussions with your health care provider. > \*\* I think she wrote “bitch be whack!” on my chart. But seriously. The doctor explained that I could be suffering from a dopamine deficiency, which, while I don’t know what triggered it or caused the deficiency, most likely lead to my binge eating of carbohydrates (potato chips, bread, pasta, french fries) while also contributing to fatigue and depression. But that’s about all I know. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-tri-polar/148784/127 "2003-01-16T17:45:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AHunter3 \* > \*\*Exactly. Look, people, I need you to acknowledge something. **To declare that all observable states of emotional misery and suffering are medical states caused by problems in the suffering persons’ brain is to make a profoundly political statement.** To declare that the default assumption about anyone exhibiting prolonged emotional misery and suffering _should_ be that they are _probably_ suffering from some form of mental illness is only one step behind that. If these statements are not self-explanatory and compellingly true for you, please indicate that this is the case and I’ll elaborate. \*\* “Compellingly false”. Observable states of emotional misery are caused by outside influences as well as internal ones. If your Mom dies, you become profoundly sad - that’s understandable. If nothing of the sort has occurred, life is good, and you become profoundly sad ~ that’s a problem. If your Mom dies and you don’t feel much of anything but a kind of detachment ~ that’s a problem too. You measure the situation based on outside influences, not the other way around. On preview I see that you said basically the same thing in a later post…😕 ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-tri-polar/148784/128 "2003-01-16T17:45:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by auntie em \* > **… I had written a post to this effect yesterday afternoon (about how there perhaps needs to be an adjustment in _terminology_ so that people don’t make glib/incorrect assumptions about clinical depression.** The popular media doesn’t help much. Take for example [recent commercials for Zoloft](http://www.comedyzine.com/tvcrapr02.html). The “mascot” is a little sidewards cartoon egg-head. When the egg-head puts on a frowny face, that’s meant to depict DEPRESSION in the mind of viewers. Yet I find the net effect of this depiction is to greatly _trivialize_ depression. The egg-head, after all, just looks gloomy, not self-destructive. The egg-head is not shown going through, say, a frightful episode as described in **OpalCat’s** posts. No self-mutilation, no running head into wall … just a frowny face. No wonder Joe Average is saying to himself “Honestly … who _really_ needs a pill for garden-variety gloominess?!?” ---
**Author:** ![Witch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/258eb7/32.png) [@Witch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Witch)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-tri-polar/148784/129 "2003-01-16T17:56:08Z")
From “New Hope For People With Bipolar Disorder” by Jan FawcettMD, Bernard Golden Ph.D and Nancy Rosenfeld \*\*pg.17 Kay JamisonPh.D, and Frederick Goodwin, M’d, have presented a reasonable theory that supports the theory of bipolar “advantages,” more commonly referred to as "fluency of thinking."They have shown a high correlation between creative personalities and bipolar illness. Elements of of creative thinking , many of which are associated with cognitive changes that take place during hypomania or mild mania, include: \*word fluency \*associational fluency _expressional fluency ideational fluency An artistic temperament and imagination, the by-product of such creative assets, have given rise to many celebrated and distinguished individuals. Among these talented people we find poets, writers, artists, buisness tycoons, political leaders, and scientists._ “One must harbor chaos within oneself to give birth to a dancing star.” - Nietzsche ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-tri-polar/148784/130 "2003-01-16T18:01:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bordelond \* > \*\*To folks in the know on this thread, I posit the following: isn’t it true that there’s a strong correlation between high intelligence and the mental illnesses we’re discussing in this thread? \*\* I don’t know about intelligence, but there is a strong correlation between this type of disorder and creativity. A VERY high percentage of the greatest artists, writers, and musicians were bi-polar, depressive, or something similar. That’s probably why they did freaky things like cutting off their ears 😃 ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-tri-polar/148784/131 "2003-01-16T18:02:02Z")
**Witch** : > [@](#): > > Logical fallacies? Politics? I’m glad it’s just a concept you can intellectualizeAHunter3. I don’t have that luxury. Now _look_, goddammit! When I was in eighth grade and miserable and lonely because people were picking on me without mercy and treating me like some kind of freak and calling me “faggot” and stuff, and the guidance counselors proceeded from the assumption that my problems were due to things that were wrong with _me_, that added a thousandfold to my very real and concrete miseries. I needed someone or an institutional policy or something to defend me from the violence and harassment; I needed someone to listen and validate what I was going through and _care_. I got labeling and medicalization. Years later, I figured a big chunk of it out on my own and got very excited and started trying to explain it to people and received an invitation to speak to the psychiatrists across the street. I knew they had some concerns about whether I was OK in the head but I wasn’t intimidated about _talking_ to them (I figured they’d listen and maybe even see why I was so excited about what I’d figured out; if not, at least they’d tell the university folks to quit worrying about my head). I signed a paper that purportedly agreed that I would talk to the psychiatrist. (I figured, makes sense, you see a physical ailments doctor you agree to get treated; in the psychiatric profession the consultation visit is considered “treatment”). Found out I’d committed myself, thank you very much “informed consent” standard! Locked up and forcibly medicated against my will. The walls of my lunatic asylum were pretty damn concrete, and while I was too enthused about what I’d figured out for even this to put a damper on my mood for long, this was very real non-abstract oppression. I was locked up in a place with bars on the windows and locks on the doors and subjected to mind-altering chemicals against my will on the basis of feelings that thoughts that weren’t even bothering me but were thought by others to be symptoms of “mental illness”. My pain is as real as your pain. I’ve felt misery and despair like unto any that you’ve experienced, I’ll warrant! In my post I made serious and sincere effort to explain that I was not waving away what you’ve been through. Now reciprocate. This is _not_ some silly-ass ivory-tower abstraction of an ideal-driven pipe-smoking academic geek. Automatically psychiatrizing emotional distress causes real suffering and real pain and real oppression and it’s fucking morally wrong to do it. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-tri-polar/148784/132 "2003-01-16T18:03:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AHunter3 \* > \*\*Logical fallacy. I lived for years in a grad-student building with a guy who could not face the world without smoking a joint. This does not constitute proof that he suffered from a metabolic THC insufficiency. \*\* The difference here is that most of the medications we are talking about _have no effect_ if your brain is already chemically balanced. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-tri-polar/148784/133 "2003-01-16T18:05:35Z")
**Tee** , replying to me about interior versus exterior causes: > [@](#): > > On preview I see that you said basically the same thing in a later post… 😕 Go back to the long post, reread, paying particular attention to the use of words like “some” and “all”. They are very important in this context. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-tri-polar/148784/134 "2003-01-16T18:07:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > \*\*The doctor explained that I could be suffering from a dopamine deficiency, which, while I don’t know what triggered it or caused the deficiency, most likely lead to my binge eating of carbohydrates (potato chips, bread, pasta, french fries) while also contributing to fatigue and depression. > > But that’s about all I know. \*\* That’s actually a good bit to go on. It lead me to the article below, which appeared in the journal _Biological Psychiatry_ this past October. [Dopaminergic abnormalities in amygdaloid nuclei in major depression: a postmortem study](http://www.biopsychiatry.com/dopdef.htm) > [@](#): > > \*\*ABSTRACT > A deficiency of mesolimbic dopamine (DA) is a leading candidate for the etiology of certain symptoms of depression (e.g., anhedonia and loss of motivation). Here we show amounts of dopaminergic proteins in the amygdala, a key brain structure involved in the integration of emotions and stress, in subjects with major depression and in psychiatrically normal control subjects.The specific binding of [(125)I]RTI 55 to the DA transporter, [(3)H]SCH 23390 to the D1 receptor and [(125)I]epidepride to D2/D3 receptors were measured in the right amygdaloid complex in postmortem brains from 11 subjects with major depression and 11 matched control subjects.The binding of [(125)I]RTI 55 to DA transporter was significantly lower in the basal and central amygdaloid nuclei, whereas the binding of [(125)I]epidepride to D2/D3 receptors was significantly higher in the basal, central, and lateral amygdaloid nuclei in major depression compared with control subjects. No difference in the binding of [(3)H]SCH 23390 to D1 receptors was observed.Given that DA depletion in rats can induce a reduction in the DA transporter and an upregulation of D2/D3 receptors, our data are consistent with the hypothesis that major depression is associated with a deficiency of mesolimbic DA. \*\* The article is pretty dense, but I was able to glean the following: - Dopamine deficiency can be chemically measured as either a lack or a surplus of given proteins in the amygdala. - It seems that this work has been performed on only human cadavers and rats. That suggests that research on live subjects is for now problematic. Imagine if this barrier is lifted in the future, and a CD or BP sufferer could somehow monitor their own brain chemistry as diabetics monitor thir glucose levels. - It confirms that neurochemical symptoms of depression have been observed in another mammal (viz, rats). Of course the manifestations in other mammals of dopamine deficiency are certainly different than they would be in humans (but likely still self-destructive, as in self-starvation). ---
**Author:** ![auntie\_em](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@auntie\_em](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auntie_em)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-tri-polar/148784/135 "2003-01-16T18:09:13Z")
Thanks, **bordelond**! This is all so interesting to me. And I know I’m jumping around like a frog on fire, here, but the Nadolski article got me thinking about another possible cause-and-effect relationship that has sorta-kinda not been discussed here. I’ll have to give you an anecdote first: I have a cousin, whom I’ve known since my birth, who is a wonderful, talented, caring person in my eyes (and is, for what it’s worth, very gifted at drawing). However, he’s had quite a few brushes with the law (involving prison time) and some serious problems with drugs. He’s been out of prison for awhile now, and really seems to be getting his act together (in terms of avoiding illegal activity of all types). Only now he’s been diagnosed with Muscular Dystrophy. So one day, I was out with the friend I keep mentioning (Uber-Genius), and we ran into my cousin. We chatted for awhile, went our separate ways, and my friend remarked what a nice guy he was. I told her a little about his problematic history, and remarked how much it sucks that his MD diagnosis came just at the time when he was really trying to get clean and get his life together (which has to be discouraging). Her theory was that his drug use probably stemmed from the early, undiagnosed stages of his MD. She thinks that he was probably _subconsciously_ aware of the neurological glitches, so to speak, that (years later) turned out to be MD, and was therefore (also subconsciously) using drugs as a way of self-medicating. She applies this same theory to her own (excessive) use of recreational drugs before her Bipolar Disorder diagnosis. Now don’t get me wrong–I know that people with chemical imbalances or neurological misfirings are not the only people picking up needles, and I’m certainly not lumping all drug use under one “Big Bad” category. It’s just that to be honest, I don’t know which specific substances either of them favored before any official diagnosis occurred. Nonetheless, I’d like to know what some of you think about this theory; I find it interesting, because it seems to be that the typical cause/effect correlation between drug use and the brain usually goes the other way around (i.e., the famous Fried Egg Analogy). More thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-tri-polar/148784/136 "2003-01-16T18:12:07Z")
For the curious, here is a list of famous people with BPD: [artists](http://www.pendulum.org/information/information_famous_artists.html) [musicians/composers](http://www.pendulum.org/information/information_famous_music.html) [poets](http://www.pendulum.org/information/information_famous_poets.html)[writers](http://www.pendulum.org/information/information_famous_writers.html) ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-tri-polar/148784/137 "2003-01-16T18:13:27Z")
Err… “poets” and “writers” are two different lists. I managed to not put a new line in there. ---
**Author:** ![Witch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/258eb7/32.png) [@Witch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Witch)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-tri-polar/148784/138 "2003-01-16T18:14:17Z")
I am truly very, very, sorry about what you went through. I am literally seething with anger for the young man you were, and the man you are now. What was done to you was nothing less than …evil. I hope this was a long, long time ago. Please Gods. And I hope you are OK. But let me ask you this. Do you have a chronic, incurable disease? That can blind side you at ANY time? Do you know that you have a 20% chance of killing yourself? Or that 9 years have been knocked off your life expectancy in any case? Do you have to live with the guilt that you’ve passed the shit gene onto your son who suffers 10 times worse than yourself? Do you? ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-tri-polar/148784/139 "2003-01-16T18:19:14Z")
**OpalCat** > [@](#): > > The difference here is that most of the medications we are talking about _have no effect_ if your brain is already chemically balanced. While I’m capable of being wrong (I’m no neurologist), this strikes me as unlikely. Most of the pharmaceuticals available for the various mental illnesses, far from being perfectly calibrated little “magic bullets”, are chemicals that either interfere with the uptake of neurotransmitters or neurotransmitter inhibitors or directly inhibit neurotransmission. (A common example being Serum Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors, or SSRIs). Some of the natural chemicals that are affected directly or indirectly by the pharmaceuticals may be more present or more relevant to cognitive and/or emotional processes, or may be more present or more relevant to brain neural tissue than, say, to spinal or motor neural tissue; but it is my understanding that the entire nervous system of everyone – motor neurons, tactile sensory neurons, brain tissue, spinal tissue, etc – is going to be affected by neurotransmitter-affecting agents; and that this is true for the hypothetical Average Joe on the Street as well as for the hypothetical Mental Patient with Certified Chemical Imbalances. If you are aware of any clinical trials that were performed on a double-blind group in which half of the recipients had no known mental illness, and which indicated no effect on the control group, I’d like to read it. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-tri-polar/148784/140 "2003-01-16T18:26:47Z")
I don’t have any studies, sorry, but I’ll toss out lithium as an example of one that I know of. Also, the drugs don’t have the same type of effect as recreational drugs. Taking a Paxil doesn’t give you a “happy buzz” or anything. In fact it takes several weeks to build it up in your system to even have it level you out. This makes it quite different from needing a joint before class as well. Oh, and SSRI stands for Selective Seratonin Reuptake Inhibitors 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-tri-polar/148784.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-tri-polar/148784.md?page=8)