# What's so American about apple pie? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 24, 2002, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-american-about-apple-pie/110649 "2002-05-24T12:58:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2002, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-american-about-apple-pie/110649/1 "2002-05-24T12:58:56Z")
When I lived in Texas in the '70s, I remember a commercial that went IIRC: > [@](#): > > These all go together > In the good ol’ USA > Hot dogs, baseball > Apple pie and Chevrolet. Hot dogs, baseball and Chevrolet I’ll give you - can’t get much more American than those wonderful inventions. But apple pie? England has it too under the same name; the Irish have their apple tart; the Austrians and Germans have Apfelstrudel; the French their tarte aux pommes; no doubt most countries have some dish of a similar nature. I’ll warrant the practice of encasing apples in pastry goes back way before the pilgrims set sail. So why is it claimed as particularly American? ---
**Author:** ![occ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8c91f0/32.png) [@occ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/occ)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2002, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-american-about-apple-pie/110649/2 "2002-05-24T13:40:49Z")
Figure of speech, is all I can offer. While the dish isn’t specifically American, we have a sort of nostalgia/Americana thing going with apple pie. It conjures up images of picnics, family, celebrating Independance Day, grandma, checked tablecloths…that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2002, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-american-about-apple-pie/110649/3 "2002-05-24T13:42:14Z")
Well, I’d always heard it as “American as Mom and apple pie.” What’s so American about Mom, for that matter? I’ve heard rumors that they have moms in England and Ireland and Austria and Germany and France, too. ---
**Author:** ![miamouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ad7895/32.png) [@miamouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miamouse)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2002, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-american-about-apple-pie/110649/4 "2002-05-24T14:06:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\*Well, I’d always heard it as “American as Mom and apple pie.” > > What’s so American about Mom, for that matter? I’ve heard rumors that they have moms in England and Ireland and Austria and Germany and France, too. \*\* Maybe because it’s “Mum” in England and “Mutti” in Germany? ---
**Author:** ![sirjamesp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@sirjamesp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sirjamesp)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2002, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-american-about-apple-pie/110649/5 "2002-05-24T14:07:03Z")
No no no, we have “Mums” over in England. They are like “Moms”, but quainter. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2002, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-american-about-apple-pie/110649/6 "2002-05-24T14:13:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*When I lived in Texas in the '70s, I remember a commercial that went IIRC:Hot dogs, baseball and Chevrolet I’ll give you - can’t get much more American than those wonderful inventions. \*\* I wouldn’t even give you those three - surely Germany gets credit for hotdogs (frankfurters)? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2002, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-american-about-apple-pie/110649/7 "2002-05-24T14:14:58Z")
Mums make scones, knit, and do flower arranging at the W.I. Whereas Moms make you Kraft Dinner, take you to the ballpark and have tupperware parties. There’s a lot to be said for both. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2002, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-american-about-apple-pie/110649/8 "2002-05-24T14:50:13Z")
When I was at colonial Williamsburg one time they were doing a cooking demonstration and the guy said that vegetable and fruit pies were used in Europe as side dishes and that it was an american idea to use fruits and vegetable dishes as desserts. Another possibility is that because of Johnny Appleseed apple trees were the most common fruit trees in America at the time the expression was coined so apple pie was stereotypically American even if it not uniquely American. ---
**Author:** ![Knighted\_Vorpal\_Sword](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ac91a4/32.png) [@Knighted\_Vorpal\_Sword](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knighted_Vorpal_Sword)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2002, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-american-about-apple-pie/110649/9 "2002-05-24T17:23:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*When I lived in Texas in the '70s, I remember a commercial that went IIRC:Hot dogs, baseball and Chevrolet I’ll give you - can’t get much more American than those wonderful inventions. \*\* [nitpick] Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie . . . [/nitpick] I certainly watched enough TV back then to know. ---
**Author:** ![slipster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@slipster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slipster)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2002, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-american-about-apple-pie/110649/10 "2002-05-25T00:14:30Z")
Years ago I read a book of “fun facts”/trivia edited by Isaac Asimov. It stated that apple pie has traditionally been regarded as a kind of institution in the U.S., so much so that a cafeteria at Yale offered it as a dessert every day for over 100 years. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2002, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-american-about-apple-pie/110649/11 "2002-05-25T00:32:00Z")
Without doing actual research, wouldn’t it seem likely that apple pie got its start from either German or English immigrants? I just picture those countries as pastry-oriented countries. Just doesn’t seem like a French dessert. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2002, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-american-about-apple-pie/110649/12 "2002-05-25T00:34:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gary Kumquat \* > \*\* I wouldn’t even give you those three - surely Germany gets credit for hotdogs (frankfurters)? \*\* I thought the “Hot Dog” was an American invention - first presented at the 1904 World’s Fair in St. Louis? Something about being named after an Indian tribe that ate dogs, or something? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2002, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-american-about-apple-pie/110649/13 "2002-05-25T00:55:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by puddleglum \* > > Another possibility is that because of Johnny Appleseed apple trees were the most common fruit trees in America at the time the expression was coined so apple pie was stereotypically American even if it not uniquely American. Yes, except that virtually all of _those_ apples were inedible. Only something like 1 in 800 ( I forget the exact numbers, but it is something ridiculous like that ) naturally seed-grown apple trees produce edible apples. When a sweet tree emerged in an orchard, it was hoarded as prize possesion by the owners. All varieties of sweet apples eaten today are the cloned results of genetic mutants. The apples Johnny Appleseed was spreading weren’t primarily for eating - They were for making ‘Hard Cider’. Ole’ Johnny Appleseed ( John Chapman ) was bringing the gift of booze to the frontier :D. Something to remember next time you see that Disney cartoon about him ;). - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2002, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-american-about-apple-pie/110649/14 "2002-05-25T01:08:11Z")
Well a quick search turns up the fact that apple pie ( or a close equivalent ) was a favored dessert at least as early as the reign of Elizabeth I in England. So I guess we can rule out American origins. Oh and the cloning of edible apples in the early days was by grafting. Didn’t mean to imply early American settlers had modern genetic labs :). - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2002, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-american-about-apple-pie/110649/15 "2002-05-25T01:26:18Z")
> [@](#): > > I wouldn’t even give you those three - surely Germany gets credit for hotdogs (frankfurters)? Nope. The term originated in US. > [@](#): > > Another possibility is that because of Johnny Appleseed apple trees were the most common fruit trees in America at the time the expression was coined… When, exactly, was the expression coined? Cite? ---
**Author:** ![woolly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ebca7d/32.png) [@woolly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woolly)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2002, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-american-about-apple-pie/110649/16 "2002-05-25T04:48:22Z")
[QUOTE] These all go together In the good ol’ USA Hot dogs, baseball Apple pie and Chevrolet. QUOTE] [hijack]GM had a similarly themed ad in Australia “Football, meat pies, kangaroos and Holden cars” [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2002, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-american-about-apple-pie/110649/17 "2002-05-26T04:27:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by samclem \* > \*\* When, exactly, was the expression coined? Cite? \*\* **Ed Zotti** on the origin of [hot dog](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mhotdog.html). ---
**Author:** ![evilhanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba8739/32.png) [@evilhanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/evilhanz)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2002, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-american-about-apple-pie/110649/18 "2002-05-26T16:35:57Z")
Another theory about the origin of the phrase “as american as apple pie” involves the Apple Marketing Board of Cortland, NY. In order to compensate for a sharp drop in sales early last century, they began a product positioning campaign that included such memorable phrases as “an apple a day keeps the doctor away” and “as American as apple pie”. There’s little if any evidence to support those claims, though. Isn’t there an existing thread on this somewhere? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2002, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-american-about-apple-pie/110649/19 "2002-05-26T18:27:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Only something like 1 in 800 ( I forget the exact numbers, but it is something ridiculous like that ) naturally seed-grown apple trees produce edible apples. Nah, only a small fraction of seed-grown trees produce _pretty_ fruit. Most seed apples are ugly as all heck (covered with discolorations and lumps), but perfectly edible, and often sweeter than the grafted varieties. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2002, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-american-about-apple-pie/110649/20 "2002-05-26T19:48:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chronos \* > Nah, only a small fraction of seed-grown trees produce _pretty_ fruit. Most seed apples are ugly as all heck (covered with discolorations and lumps), but perfectly edible, and often sweeter than the grafted varieties. I beg to differ :). Though perhaps there is a real difference in the situation _now_ vs. back then : [http://www.pbs.org/newshour/conversation/jan-june01/botany\_06-29.html](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/conversation/jan-june01/botany_06-29.html) [http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~insrisg/nature/nw01/1015Appleseed.htm](http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~insrisg/nature/nw01/1015Appleseed.htm) - Tamerlane