# What's so bad about Fox News? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 1, 2004, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-fox-news/248041 "2004-06-01T10:14:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-fox-news/248041/21 "2004-06-01T12:53:03Z")
By the way, [here](http://www.thebluestate.com/article11-21-03foxnews.htm) is a blog article on Fox News’ bias. Here is what a former editor at Fox News had to say: > [@](#): > > As a former editor at [Foxnews.com](http://Foxnews.com) – and therefore clearly a disgruntled ex-employee – let me just say that the right-wing bias was there in the newsroom, up-front and obvious, from the day a certain executive editor was sent down from the channel to bring us in line with their coverage. His first directive to us: Seek out stories that cater to angry, middle-aged white men who listen to talk radio and yell at their televisions…What followed was a dumbing-down of what had been an ambitious and talented news operation. Stories could be no more than 1,000 words, then 800…More and more effort was devoted to adapting FNC “scripts” into Web stories, which meant we were essentially correcting the errors of FNC “reporters” who couldn’t be bothered to get the facts. To me, FNC reporters’ laziness was the worst part of the bias. It wasn’t that they were toeing some political line…, it was that the facts of a story just didn’t matter at all. The idea was to get those viewers out of their seats, screaming at the TV, the politicians, the liberals – whoever – simply by running a provocative story. And, here’s a discussion of what another former editor had to say: > [@](#): > > Charlie Reina, a former FOX News Editor, copy editor and writer, worked at FOX News for six years, and quit in April of 2003. He explained, “The fact is, daily life at FNC is all about management politics. I say this having served six years there - as producer of the media criticism show, News Watch.” Reina went on to discuss how his experienced at FOX News differed from other networks. “Not once in the 20+ years I had worked in broadcast journalism prior to Fox - including lengthy stays at The Associated Press, CBS Radio and ABC/Good Morning America - did I feel any pressure to toe a management line. But at Fox, if my boss wasn’t warning me to “be careful” how I handled the writing of a special about Ronald Reagan…” Hold on now. Reina is referring to Roger Ailes, his boss while at FOX News. According to Reina, Ailes gave him specific instructions on how to slant his producing of an environmental special. “You can give both sides, but make sure the pro-environmentalists don’t get the last word.” > > Another example Reina cites is FOX News’ childish behavior in 2002 after a California judge ruled that the Pledge of Allegiance was unconstitutional because of the words “Under God”. Most Americans, including myself, disagreed with the ruling. But the conservative news network FOX News went to the extreme. Charlie Reina told all, “FNC’s newsroom chief ordered the judge’s mailing address and phone number put on the screen.” … > > The network gets their message across, according to Charlie Reina, by a daily memo from the people that run the network. “They come in the form of an executive memo distributed electronically each morning, addressing what stories will be covered and, often, suggesting how they should be covered. To the newsroom personnel responsible for the channel’s daytime programming, The Memo is the bible. If, on any given day, you notice that the Fox anchors seem to be trying to drive a particular point home, you can bet The Memo is behind it.” ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-fox-news/248041/22 "2004-06-01T12:54:27Z")
Jshore, I direct you [here.](http://www.mrc.org) Please take the time to actually read some of the information before your mind slams shut like a trap door. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-fox-news/248041/23 "2004-06-01T12:57:05Z")
> [@](#): > > So perhaps homicide bomber do add the extra information that it is a bomb meant to kill people whereas suicide bombing just tells something about the chosen method. People who want to committ suicide don’t strap TNT and nails to their chests (or fill their cars with TNT) and go into crowded areas. People who do that are trying to kill others. That’s why they’re suicide bombers- they are killing themselves and making the attempt to murder others. ‘Homicide bomber’ doesn’t convey that the act is self-destructive. **Evil One** , cites that dub themselves “The Leader in Documenting, Exposing and Neutralizing Liberal Media Bias” aren’t going to convince anybody of their fair-mindedness or impartiality. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-fox-news/248041/24 "2004-06-01T13:00:12Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > Jshore, I direct you [here.](http://www.mrc.org) > > Please take the time to actually read some of the information before your mind slams shut like a trap door. OK, so I laughed my guts out at the ecer-so-slight hint of paranoia on that site. But what are we supposed to be drawing from it? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-fox-news/248041/25 "2004-06-01T13:06:23Z")
You may also be interested in reading Bernard Goldberg’s book Bias. If you feel ex-employees can be relied on to determine if a news organization is biased or not. I would judge Fox to be somewhat to the right of the _American_ center, as PBS, CBS, NBC, ABC, The New York Times, the Washington Post, 99% of Hollywood, etc., is somewhat to the left of the _American_ center. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-fox-news/248041/26 "2004-06-01T13:10:54Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > It would appear that Fox News’ propagandistic word games have had their intended effect, in that you appear to believe that only Hamas and their ilk have ever set out to carry out terrorist attacks with the intent of deliberately killing large numbers of people. I already said I’ve never watched Fox so how you can come to such a conclusion is a bit baffling –perhaps rather you should try on the notion that not everybody is an American and know of the particulars of American history (which was why I qualified my assertion). > [@MEBuckner](#): > > And I’m not saying the term “homicide bomber” should be used for Timothy McVeigh instead of Palestinian suicide bombers Boy did I misunderstand this line of yours: _“Timothy McVeigh and Ted Kaczynski were homicide bombers”_ – but you seems to be rather heavily emotional involved in this little thing since you apparently think it warrants little snide ad-hominems. This is way more than I can muster on the subject so I think I’ll just take the quick way out. > [@MEBuckner](#): > > I’m just saying it’s a stupid, propagandistic term, and shouldn’t be used at all. Which was why you just used it to describe Timothy McVeigh and Ted Kaczynski? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-fox-news/248041/27 "2004-06-01T13:12:13Z")
Guys, we are either going to accept web sites at cites or we aren’t. I have seen plenty of links on the board to left-leaning websites that were touted at the clarion call of truth to make someones point. Sure, the MRC leans to the right. But they do take the time to monitor the major media outlets closely. You can disagree with their political philosophy, but the fact remains that the news anchors or interviewers in question did, in fact, utter the words that are attributed to them. If you read the analysis with an open mind, you will see what I’m talking about. If you refuse to accept the idea that ideology makes it’s way into editorial decisions and interview questions, then my time is being wasted here. Take the CBS “Kerry/McCain dream ticket” story. Why even do that story in the first place? McCain has repeatedly expressed no interest in being Kerry’s VP. So what was the point in taking up precious time to discuss something that will never happen? Other than making people feel good who want to gaze at a graphic with Kerry winning, I don’t see it. The further left you are, the more unwilling you are to accept the idea of left-wing bias in the national media. The further right you are, the less willing you are to see right-wing bias in the Wall Street Journal. People are going to see a point of view they agree with as “the truth” and not bias, unless they are capable of taking a step back and looking at the subject objectively. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-fox-news/248041/28 "2004-06-01T13:15:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Guys, we are either going to accept web sites at cites or we aren’t. Bull. Cites that are obviously off the wall have never been accepted as valid cites. See the debates about the Berg video and links to nuthatches like the Voz de Aztlan. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-fox-news/248041/29 "2004-06-01T13:16:18Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > Guys, we are either going to accept web sites at cites or we aren’t. I have seen plenty of links on the board to left-leaning websites that were touted at the clarion call of truth to make someones point. Sure, the MRC leans to the right. But they do take the time to monitor the major media outlets closely. You can disagree with their political philosophy, but the fact remains that the news anchors or interviewers in question did, in fact, utter the words that are attributed to them. If you read the analysis with an open mind, you will see what I’m talking about. If you refuse to accept the idea that ideology makes it’s way into editorial decisions and interview questions, then my time is being wasted here. As has already been pointed out in this thread, from outside the US any complaints about left-wing bias in mainstream American media seem preposterous, because it’s still right-wing by non-American standards. That’s why the MRC site seems silly. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-fox-news/248041/30 "2004-06-01T13:23:58Z")
The MRC site analyses American media and is aimed at an American audience. And since the original OP was about the bias perceived by some at Fox News, we are using American standards as the basis of discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-fox-news/248041/31 "2004-06-01T13:25:02Z")
Marley23, do you think that the MRC site is “totally off the wall”? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-fox-news/248041/32 "2004-06-01T13:27:00Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > The MRC site analyses American media and is aimed at an American audience. And since the original OP was about the bias perceived by some at Fox News, we are using American standards as the basis of discussion. Fox News is broadcast internationally. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-fox-news/248041/33 "2004-06-01T13:27:12Z")
OK, Rune, I’m sorry I got snarky with you. My point is, “suicide bomber” is a phrase which actually provides some information; “homicide bomber” is a phrase which provides very little information (and “Homicide bomber kills 4” is pointlessly and probably propagandistically redundant). A Palestinian religious fanatic (or secular nationalist zealot) who straps on a belt full of dynamite and nails and blows himself up in the middle of a bus or a cafe in Tel Aviv is a “homicide bomber”. Timothy McVeigh, who parked a truck full of several thousand pounds of explosives in front of an office building at 9 o’clock in the morning, lit the fuse, and then walked away, was a “homicide bomber”. Ted Kaczynski, who mailed packages designed to explode when opened (and in some cases left innocent-looking objects booby-trapped to explode when picked up in places where his targets would find them) was a “homicide bomber”. The person–officially alleged to be Eric Robert Rudolph, who is awaiting trial–who left a pipe bomb with a timer attached to it in a crowded park in Atlanta during the 1996 Olympics was a “homicide bomber”. Using the term “homicide bomber” conveys almost no extra information. If for some reason someone is just hell-bent on avoiding the descriptive term “suicide bomber” (which _does_ provide extra information; in pragmatic terms security measures which will stop a person who needs to plant his or her bomb and get away will do nothing to stop a suicide bomber), why not just say “bomber” and “bomb” and leave it at that? I’m not really that emotionally invested in the topic, actually, it just irritates me is all. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-fox-news/248041/34 "2004-06-01T13:30:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Take the CBS “Kerry/McCain dream ticket” story. Are you suggesting repeating this little fantasy is a “liberal” idea? Interesting. The only time I have seen this little titbit mentioned at all in the UK media was in a column by Andrew Sullivan, who would hardly be a representative of the ‘left’. He was touting it as the best possible outcome for the Democrats (having the bi-partisan ticket) available. It was, in his eyes, a right-wing fantasy ticket of which he seemed to approve. I find it difficult to conceive of how this could later be construed as being an idea continually perpetuated by liberal-biased media. – I can’t really judge this personally, but the following comments by \*\*Shodan \*\* strike me as being (possibly) a reasonably fair analysis of the US media - can someone from the other side of the fence confirm if this is generally considered the case, or not? (I find it difficult to judge exactly where the American public centre \*actually \* sits relative to, for example, the UK.) > [@](#): > > I would judge Fox to be somewhat to the right of the **American** center, as PBS, CBS, NBC, ABC, The New York Times, the Washington Post, 99% of Hollywood, etc., is somewhat to the left of the **American** center. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-fox-news/248041/35 "2004-06-01T13:30:13Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Fox News is broadcast internationally. And would therefore seem even more rightward according to international standards. I didn’t think of that. My apologies. Tell me, does CNN strike you as right of your political center as well? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-fox-news/248041/36 "2004-06-01T13:32:48Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > Tell me, does CNN strike you as right of your political center as well? Yep - it’s comparable to the serious right-wing media here. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-fox-news/248041/37 "2004-06-01T13:36:21Z")
The OP enjoined us to debate Fox-bashing **on the SDMB**. Since this site has a considerable international contingent, simply limiting the discussion solely to what the _US_ might consider “centrist” would appear to deprive **Carnick** of the opportunity to explore the reasonable and legitimate position that Fox News is so _way_ out to the right that the rest of the world finds it absurd, sometimes amusingly so. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-fox-news/248041/38 "2004-06-01T13:48:07Z")
I’m sure many international dopers find Fox news way out to the right because their political standards are even further to the left than our own…hence CNN being compared to right-wing media in Great Britain. This brings to mind my earlier point…people are going to be naturally tolerant of opinions they agree with. The further left you are, the more you dislike Fox News. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-fox-news/248041/39 "2004-06-01T13:53:07Z")
Interestingly enough, I just did a few quick Google searches, and it does not appear that [Foxnews.com](http://Foxnews.com) has ever employed the phrase “homicide bomb” or any variant thereof in conjunction with the search terms McVeigh, Nichols, Oklahoma City, Kaczynski, Unabomber, Rudolph, or Centennial Olympic Park. On the other hand, the “homicide bomb” trope seems to be used extensively to describe bombings (suicide and otherwise) carried out by Middle Eastern and/or Islamic terrorists (including terrorist attacks in Russia presumably in the cause of Chechen separatism). “Homicide bomb” is used to describe both attacks on unarmed civilians–people blowing up restaurants and subway cars and so on–and bombings aimed at U.S. troops in Iraq. (Those were pretty quick Google searches; if someone can come up with some counter-examples, have at it.) ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2004, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-fox-news/248041/40 "2004-06-01T13:55:12Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > I’m sure many international dopers find Fox news way out to the right because their political standards are even further to the left than our own…hence CNN being compared to right-wing media in Great Britain. > > This brings to mind my earlier point…people are going to be naturally tolerant of opinions they agree with. The further left you are, the more you dislike Fox News. Oh I dunno. I don’t see it as a sliding scale of “left” and “right” but a sliding slope of how far you let impartiality in news broadcasting slip in favor of blatant propaganda. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-fox-news/248041.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-fox-news/248041.md?page=3)