# What's so bad about Mitt Romney? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 22, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-mitt-romney/603710 "2011-11-22T02:50:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-mitt-romney/603710/21 "2011-11-22T17:45:33Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Look, there are like a million threads where we can debate whether Obama is bad for gun rights people. Let’s keep it out of this one, since it’s totally irrelevant. \*\*pkbites \*\*brought it up as a direct comparison to Romney. I don’t see why a clarification is off limits, other than it appearently displeases you. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-mitt-romney/603710/22 "2011-11-22T17:48:00Z")
It’s not necessary for the purposes of this thread. It’s no great secret that gun types view _all_ Democrats as bad for gun rights, on the whole. It’s also no great secret that Obama is not _pro_-gun, though he’s not really anti-gun either. Since conservatives are typically looking for candidates who are affirmatively for guns, Obama is bad. Happy? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-mitt-romney/603710/23 "2011-11-22T17:50:02Z")
Yes. Thank you for clearing that up, **pkbites**. ---
**Author:** ![SeldomSeen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ba0ec/32.png) [@SeldomSeen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeldomSeen)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-mitt-romney/603710/24 "2011-11-22T18:14:38Z")
What’s so bad about Mitt Romney? Nothing. As with John McCain I think he’s a reasonably sensible, level-headed man that on a personal level could probably serve adequately as president. The problem with Romney, as with McCain is the crowd they run with. Given the current state of the right wing in America…the invective, the lies, the latent facism, the greed, the endless pandering to the monied interests, the contempt for the general public; the prospect of a Republican administration is highly disturbing. To say the least. SS ---
**Author:** ![ProbablyProcrastinating](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/57b2e6/32.png) [@ProbablyProcrastinating](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ProbablyProcrastinating)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-mitt-romney/603710/25 "2011-11-22T18:31:16Z")
It’s really that he’s a Mormon. The Christo-fascists can’t accept that. All politicians flip-flop. They have to compromise and deal with complex issues. It would be insane not to change your mind based on a more complete understanding of the facts, or to tailor your message to whom you are speaking. The flip-flopping accusation is just one more piece of evidence that he’s not a “true believer”. ETC: I thought you meant, what’s so bad about him that Republicans can’t have him for their candidate, not, what is wrong with him so that I would never vote for him. I could go on and on but most of my opposition to him is general opposition to Conservative platforms, but I don’t think it’s interesting since that debate is going to get hashed out around the turkey in millions of dining rooms around the country in a few days anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-mitt-romney/603710/26 "2011-11-22T18:42:37Z")
> [@ProbablyProcrastinating](#): > > All politicians flip-flop. They have to compromise and deal with complex issues. It would be insane not to change your mind based on a more complete understanding of the facts, or to tailor your message to whom you are speaking. Romney isn’t accused of compromising and dealing with complex issues or changing his mind or tailoring his message. He’s accused of completely reversing himself and saying whatever his audience wants to hear, to the point where nobody thinks he believes anything - and that makes it near-impossible for voters to trust him. Do you not see where that’s a problem? In 2006 he strongly supported the universal health care law in Massachusetts. It was his signature accomplishment in office. In 2011, he’s saying he is strongly opposed to a nearly-identical federal law. The only fact that changed is that he is trying to get the votes of people who are strongly opposed the federal law. And of course that’s not the only issue where Romney has reversed himself that way. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-mitt-romney/603710/27 "2011-11-22T19:36:08Z")
> [@SeldomSeen](#): > > What’s so bad about Mitt Romney? Nothing. As with John McCain I think he’s a reasonably sensible, level-headed man that on a personal level could probably serve adequately as president. The problem with Romney, as with McCain is the crowd they run with. Given the current state of the right wing in America…the invective, the lies, the latent facism, the greed, the endless pandering to the monied interests, the contempt for the general public; the prospect of a Republican administration is highly disturbing. To say the least. > SS You nailed it on the head for me in many respects. There are a few, sane Republicans among the most-well known members nationally, here and there, but on the whole the GOP is at present irredeemably full of shit. However, Romney’s having sold out so pathetically shows a fundamentally corrupt yet spineless disposition. I’m not sure he would “serve adequately” even if, in fact, he is level headed. > [@ProbablyProcrastinating](#): > > The Christo-fascists can’t accept that. All politicians flip-flop. They have to compromise and deal with complex issues. It would be insane not to change your mind based on a more complete understanding of the facts, or to tailor your message to whom you are speaking. The flip-flopping accusation is just one more piece of evidence that he’s not a “true believer”. I think Romney’s flip-flopping is actually quite a bit worse than average. The hard-core conservatives have every right to be suspicious of him, but they’re stupid (I know, what news): as **SeldomSeem** mentioned, a GOP Administration and GOP Congress right now would force him way right, regardless of his actual, personal beliefs, whatever they are. Romney is surely the only GOP contender who can give Obama a run for his money, and I assume he will be the nominee eventually. Some of the hard-core right wingers will nonetheless abandon him for a third-party candidate or just stay home. ---
**Author:** ![ProbablyProcrastinating](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/57b2e6/32.png) [@ProbablyProcrastinating](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ProbablyProcrastinating)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-mitt-romney/603710/28 "2011-11-22T19:42:28Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > I think Romney’s flip-flopping is actually quite a bit worse than average. The hard-core conservatives have every right to be suspicious of him, but they’re stupid (I know, what news): as **SeldomSeem** mentioned, a GOP Administration and GOP Congress right now would force him way right, regardless of his actual, personal beliefs, whatever they are. Romney is surely the only GOP contender who can give Obama a run for his money, and I assume he will be the nominee eventually. Some of the hard-core right wingers will nonetheless abandon him for a third-party candidate or just stay home. I think that he’s being attacked harder than average. Many, many Republicans supposedly supported social programs in their states that made sense and oppose these as “big government” on the national level. Supporting something in one state is not the same as supporting it on the national level, either. States’ rights and all that. Again, FTR, I do not support Romney. But I think the attacks against him are way overblown compared to the rest of the team. Especially “flip flopping”. It makes perfect sense to say, “Massachusetts voters want universal health care and it makes financial sense in our state. Let’s do it. The average American voter in my party does not support universal health care and many states have populations that are strongly opposed. Let’s not do it.” That is not flip-flopping. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-mitt-romney/603710/29 "2011-11-22T19:53:32Z")
Here’s an New York Times article about Romney’s failure to impress conservative pundits:[“Anybody but Mitt”](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/20/sunday-review/can-conservative-media-stop-mitt-romney.html?ref=politics&gwh=752695497D9D0253510B7ACA2F747529) Highlight from the article: > [@](#): > > On conservative talk radio, you don’t have to listen for very long to get a sense of how deep the skepticism of Mr. Romney runs. Mr. Savage, never one for being understated, has called him “worthless” and stoked conservatives’ deepest fears about him: that his conservatism is skin-deep and opportunistic. “He has not been there for us for years,” Mr. Savage has said. “He has no right to run for the presidency.” > > Mr. Romney is working hard to neutralize such sentiments, which are rooted in now-abandoned liberal positions on abortion and universal health care held while he was Massachusetts governor. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-mitt-romney/603710/30 "2011-11-22T19:59:38Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > According to your analogy, Romney is a kick in the nuts on gun rights. What makes Obama a kick in the throat on gun rights? Have you paid attention to the news and what his Attorney General has been up to? Also, Obama has frequently said he supports the Brady law and reinstatement of the “assault weap:rolleyes:ns” ban. it just appears that he learned a lesson from Clinton and will wait for a second term before pushing for gun control measures. The problem is, Romney also supports this stuff. He’s no alternative. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-mitt-romney/603710/31 "2011-11-22T20:13:26Z")
Well, it doesn’t seem to be his economic policy, because that appears to be following the Republican party line pretty closely –[tax breaks for the rich, cancel Obamacare, remove regulations, sell off US natural resources to cronies, and hope everything works out OK](http://useconomy.about.com/od/fiscalpolicy/p/Mitt_Romney.htm). His social policies also[toe the line](http://www.issues2000.org/Mitt_Romney.htm) (at least nowadays). So…I dunno. It’s either the “Mormon” thing or getting elected as governor to Massachusetts automatically makes you a suspect liberal. Or he could just be boring. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-mitt-romney/603710/32 "2011-11-22T20:26:21Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Well, it doesn’t seem to be his economic policy, because that appears to be following the Republican party line pretty closely –[tax breaks for the rich, cancel Obamacare, remove regulations, sell off US natural resources to cronies, and hope everything works out OK](http://useconomy.about.com/od/fiscalpolicy/p/Mitt_Romney.htm). > > His social policies also[toe the line](http://www.issues2000.org/Mitt_Romney.htm) (at least nowadays). The “at least nowadays” thing kind of hits the nail on the head, but for some reason you’re not noticing it. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-mitt-romney/603710/33 "2011-11-22T20:30:48Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Have you paid attention to the news and what his Attorney General has been up to? > Also, Obama has frequently said he supports the Brady law and reinstatement of the “assault weap:rolleyes:ns” ban. it just appears that he learned a lesson from Clinton and will wait for a second term before pushing for gun control measures. > > The problem is, Romney also supports this stuff. He’s no alternative. Wow. I’m liking Romney more and more. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-mitt-romney/603710/34 "2011-11-22T20:46:12Z")
I think it’s pretty clear that Romney will adopt whichever positions are necessary to be elected. Leaving aside the whole Romneycare thing, just look at his abortion evolution. You can’t be Governor of Massachusetts if you’re pro-life? Oh, [I’m dedicated to protecting a woman’s right to choose](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_w9pquznG4). You can’t be the Republican nominee if you’re pro-choice? Oh, well I’ve always been staunchly pro-life. He’s like the Mormon Clinton, constantly checking a focus group to determine what he believes in. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-mitt-romney/603710/35 "2011-11-22T21:20:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Richard Parker** : > So it’s hard to know whether the Mitt Romney running for Ted Kennedy’s Senate seat is the “real” one, or the governor of Massachusetts, or the right-wing blowhard. Wait, there’s _two_ of them? The one Mitt Romney running for President was bad enough! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-mitt-romney/603710/36 "2011-11-22T21:31:50Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The “at least nowadays” thing kind of hits the nail on the head, but for some reason you’re not noticing it. I suspect they are afraid that once he has the nomination sewn up he’ll swing back to the center for the election. That’s the rational thing to do, but the hard right convinced that all real Americans think their way will hate it. Given the choice of raising taxes or facing a disaster Romney, like Reagan, would raise taxes, while the other candidates (not including Huntsman) would prefer default. We used to call these people the lunatic fringe, now they are the Republican activist mainstream. From their point of view, they are absolutely right to doubt Romney. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-mitt-romney/603710/37 "2011-11-22T21:59:47Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Well, it doesn’t seem to be his economic policy, because that appears to be following the Republican party line pretty closely –[tax breaks for the rich, cancel Obamacare, remove regulations, sell off US natural resources to cronies, and hope everything works out OK](http://useconomy.about.com/od/fiscalpolicy/p/Mitt_Romney.htm). > > His social policies also[toe the line](http://www.issues2000.org/Mitt_Romney.htm) (at least nowadays). > > So…I dunno. It’s either the “Mormon” thing or getting elected as governor to Massachusetts automatically makes you a suspect liberal. Or he could just be boring. The problem is republicans don’t believe those are his actual positions. Something that they are probably right about. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-mitt-romney/603710/38 "2011-11-22T23:17:07Z")
Since you didn’t limit your question to why Republicans don’t like Romney, listen to this: You know what’s bad about Romney? Well, he just pulled a Fox News, claiming Obama said something when the president was actually quoting someone else. [http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/22/romney-strikes-at-obama-in-new-hampshire/](http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/22/romney-strikes-at-obama-in-new-hampshire/) ---
**Author:** ![Sudden\_Kestrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecd19e/32.png) [@Sudden\_Kestrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sudden_Kestrel)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-mitt-romney/603710/39 "2011-11-23T00:11:12Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I don’t really get why that’s a problem. The theme of the opposition to the PPACA is that the feds can’t make people buy health insurance. There’s no question that states _can_ make people do that, so Romneycare and Obamacare aren’t really linked in terms of the reason people oppose it. Anything that can be perceived to link any GOP candidate to President Obama is reason enough to oppose that candidate as far as the extreme right wing is concerned. This has nothing to do with facts or logic. Jon Huntsman suffers from the same combination of association with the sitting president (as ambassador to China) and Mormonism, and he gets even less respect than Romney does. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-mitt-romney/603710/40 "2011-11-23T02:15:38Z")
> [@Scotty Mo](#): > > … . > > - he’s a flip-flopper (I don’t have specific examples but it’s been said enough) > … > - he holds a lot of the same views as the other candidates in the field > … He holds the same views as every candidate in every party, depending on what day of the week it is. That’s why the right hates him. That’s why, if by some misfortune we end up with a Republican president, I hope it’s Romney. He is not ideologically committed to the the craziest of the right wing bullshit, so perhaps he will do less damage. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-mitt-romney/603710.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-so-bad-about-mitt-romney/603710.md?page=3)